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Old 12-10-2021, 09:21 AM   #1
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Lowering tongue weight?

We have a 25FCRB on order, due in spring.
Will swapping AGMs to lithium lower the tongue weight as well as improving the Boondock capacity?

Any guesses on cost?
Will there be credit for AGM if done before delivery of unit?

Thanks
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLBNJ27 View Post
We have a 25FCRB on order, due in spring.
Will swapping AGMs to lithium lower the tongue weight as well as improving the Boondock capacity?

Any guesses on cost?
Will there be credit for AGM if done before delivery of unit?

Thanks
Yes, the Li's are typically much lighter then AGM's or "wet cell". AS charges a "lot" for this upgrade ($3k+?), and you won't get much credit for the swap. The AS upgrade can also include solar install which is good. (We just explored this while at JC, but decided not to proceed- (our 6V Trojan batteries are working just fine.)

Many here on the Forum have done this conversion for a lot less $$ on their own. Look for threads here.

You will not have much trouble selling your 12V AGM's if you wanted to sell them and do the upgrade to LI. I sold 12V's within hours when I decided to move to 6V Trojans 3 years ago...used car dealers are always watching Craigs List for 12V batteries.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:03 AM   #3
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Most lithiums are around 25 to 30 lbs each. AGMs are around 65 lbs each. It will save you in the neighborhood of 60 lbs. and you will get twice the electrical capacity for boondocking.

Airstream will charge you more for the lithiums than you can buy them for. Each lithium will run you $500 to $1000 depending on the brand. You can probably sell the new AGMs for $75 to $100 each on Craigs list. Probably more if they are Lifeline AGMs.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:15 AM   #4
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Forgot to mention, if your going to do this you may need to look at the additional considerations such as a new battery monitor, and your converter, to make sure these are compatible with your Li's. Again, the posts here on the Forum have lots of information from very knowledgeable folks, if you're going to DYI.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:25 AM   #5
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Forgot to mention, if your going to do this you may need to look at the additional considerations such as a new battery monitor, and your converter, to make sure these are compatible with your Li's. Again, the posts here on the Forum have lots of information from very knowledgeable folks, if you're going to DYI.
I think new ones have a converter with a switch which will allow it to properly charge Lithium so a new converter will not be needed, but you do have to reposition the switch on the converter.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:47 AM   #6
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Welcome aboard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLBNJ27 View Post
We have a 25FCRB on order, due in spring.
Will swapping AGMs to lithium lower the tongue weight as well as improving the Boondock capacity?

Any guesses on cost?
Will there be credit for AGM if done before delivery of unit?

Thanks
Learn me...you already bought the trailer and now you contemplate TW?🤔
If you question TW and get new batts to fudge it, maybe a more capable TV is in order.

100ah BB Lithium Easily replaced after delivery, I doubt a credit would be applied. Are you planning solar?
That would also be more cost conscious if done by a qualified aftermarket installer.


Sweet Streams.



Bob
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:05 PM   #7
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I dont think Airsteeam includes AGM from the factory anymore unless you chose factory installed solar?

https://www.airstream.com/blog/the-u...am-power-plus/

From the article linked to above.

A few Battery Options for 2021 New Customers:

No Solar Package. Choose your RV battery at the dealership

Select Solar Package from Factory. Travel Trailer ships with Victron solar controller and battery monitor, 2 AGM batteries, and respective solar panel(s)

Airstream Power Plus - Select Solar Package from Factory. Travel Trailer ships with Victron solar controller and battery monitor, 2 AGM batteries, and respective solar panel(s). Optional dealer-installed upgrade to replace 2 AGM batteries with 2 LiFePO4 lithium batteries and upgraded power converter.
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Old 12-11-2021, 09:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Learn me...you already bought the trailer and now you contemplate TW?

If you question TW and get new batts to fudge it, maybe a more capable TV is in order.



100ah BB Lithium Easily replaced after delivery, I doubt a credit would be applied. Are you planning solar?

That would also be more cost conscious if done by a qualified aftermarket installer.





Sweet Streams.







Bob


I am familiar with the TW and I am still shopping for a TV as we speak.

Trying to figure out why AS has the TW so close to the 15% mark on a 7300lb max trailer.

It seems ludicrous that you need a truck(SD/2500) with an 18k tow capacity to tow 7300lbs based on a high TW
Or

1/2 ton and payload limit taken up by TW and too close on numbers for my liking.

Seems logical to me if I can lower TW by going with lighter batteries I would have more space on my numbers.

But I am appreciative of all the info I get on here.

T
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Old 12-11-2021, 09:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox-trot View Post
I dont think Airsteeam includes AGM from the factory anymore unless you chose factory installed solar?

https://www.airstream.com/blog/the-u...am-power-plus/

From the article linked to above.

A few Battery Options for 2021 New Customers:

No Solar Package. Choose your RV battery at the dealership

Select Solar Package from Factory. Travel Trailer ships with Victron solar controller and battery monitor, 2 AGM batteries, and respective solar panel(s)

Airstream Power Plus - Select Solar Package from Factory. Travel Trailer ships with Victron solar controller and battery monitor, 2 AGM batteries, and respective solar panel(s). Optional dealer-installed upgrade to replace 2 AGM batteries with 2 LiFePO4 lithium batteries and upgraded power converter.


Have the factory solar upgrade option with the AGMs from factory.
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:08 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by TLBNJ27 View Post
Have the factory solar upgrade option with the AGM’s from factory.
Why AGM's vs wet cell; just because you don't have to add water?? The wet cells will outlast the AGM's when they are properly maintained; lots of data on this.

Why get factory solar; convenience? Solar aftermarket install much less expensive; also less expensive to get aftermarket Li's as several folks have done here and are recommending to save $$. But, hey, it's your money!

If it were me, I would take the AS standard from factory, line up the solar and Li install locally, and sell the 12V batteries when the unit arrives. Save $$ and likely have better all around set up!
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:16 AM   #11
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Why AGM's vs wet cell; just because you don't have to add water?? The wet cells will outlast the AGM's when they are properly maintained; lots of data on this. !
<><>><><><><><><????????????????<><><><><><><><><> <>

Interesting?....Our Lifeline AGM's lasted 11yrs in "Cloudsplitter" and are still busy providing back-up power for our basement sump pump.

Bob
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLBNJ27 View Post
I am familiar with the TW and I am still shopping for a TV as we speak.

Trying to figure out why AS has the TW so close to the 15% mark on a 7300lb max trailer.

It seems ludicrous that you need a truck(SD/2500) with an 18k tow capacity to tow 7300lbs based on a high TW
Or

1/2 ton and payload limit taken up by TW and too close on numbers for my liking.

Seems logical to me if I can lower TW by going with lighter batteries I would have more space on my numbers.

But I am appreciative of all the info I get on here.

T
Possibly because 15-20% TW is the safest for towing the trailer.

Bob
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FWIW....ours.
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
<><>><><><><><><????????????????<><><><><><><><><> <>

Interesting?....Our Lifeline AGM's lasted 11yrs in "Cloudsplitter" and are still busy providing back-up power for our basement sump pump.

Bob
🇺🇸
yea; I've never held on to my AS's with new batteries long enough to test the theory...just read the "wet cells" can outlast the AGM's on the net. I remember on my "new" 2014 25'FC getting a "credit" from Interstate toward AGM's when the "new" wet cell Interstates went bad within the first month or so...never had an issue with the AGM's, nor had experience keeping an AS long enough to test the theory! When we picked up the currant 28' "new", it also had wet cell Interstates, that again, went bad within first couple months; I simply let Interstate replace with wetcell 12V's; promptly sold on Craigs List and used the money to purchase the Trojan T105 6V's...that was 4 years ago; also when I swapped out the single stage OEM converter to the Boondocker 4 stage. I would love to get the Li's at some point, the solar charging set up, etc..but the Trojans are working well...someday I expect to take the plunge into Li perhaps, but for now, no reason to spend the $$.
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:51 AM   #14
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yea; I've never held on to my AS's with new batteries long enough to test the theory...just read the "wet cells" can outlast the AGM's on the net. I remember on my "new" 2014 25'FC getting a "credit" from Interstate toward AGM's when the "new" wet cell Interstates went bad within the first month or so...never had an issue with the AGM's, nor had experience keeping an AS long enough to test the theory! When we picked up the currant 28' "new", it also had wet cell Interstates, that again, went bad within first couple months; I simply let Interstate replace with wetcell 12V's; promptly sold on Craigs List and used the money to purchase the Trojan T105 6V's...that was 4 years ago; also when I swapped out the single stage OEM converter to the Boondocker 4 stage. I would love to get the Li's at some point, the solar charging set up, etc..but the Trojans are working well...someday I expect to take the plunge into Li perhaps, but for now, no reason to spend the $$.
Well, I just couldn't give up on "Cloudsplitter" after spending 4 years getting her RIGHT.
POI...I got rid of the Interstate wets after 3 Seasons.( the P-lax battery burner killed 'em), another needed upgrade

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Old 12-11-2021, 11:01 AM   #15
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More on Li's

Lots of good info here also...

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ml#post2561105
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Old 12-11-2021, 03:09 PM   #16
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The lithium upgrade will lower TW slightly, will more than double your available power, will give much faster recharging times, and if you are lucky it will pay for itself over the long haul. What is not to like? Except the upfront cost. You probably should get a small DC to DC converter added also.

Where to get it done? I do not know. Mine is going to be a self installation, I think, since my trailer is very old. It will be done in late May since we will be at the trailer that is plugged in until then.

Maybe the Airstream conversion is good enough. Maybe you could get an appointment with one of the quality installers that post on this forum. Maybe you need a project?
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Old 12-11-2021, 04:15 PM   #17
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The lithium upgrade will lower TW slightly, will more than double your available power, will give much faster recharging times, and if you are lucky it will pay for itself over the long haul. What is not to like? Except the upfront cost. You probably should get a small DC to DC converter added also.

Where to get it done? I do not know. Mine is going to be a self installation, I think, since my trailer is very old. It will be done in late May since we will be at the trailer that is plugged in until then.

Maybe the Airstream conversion is good enough. Maybe you could get an appointment with one of the quality installers that post on this forum. Maybe you need a project?


Well it will come with the solar panels already, the rest with some research and forum posts I am willing to give it a try.
Not afraid of getting my hands dirty at all.
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Old 12-11-2021, 05:19 PM   #18
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Possibly because 15-20% TW is the safest for towing the trailer.

Bob
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FWIW....ours.
Your photo is showing a nearly 1200-lb tongue weight. The Airstream manual states that no more than 1000 pounds should be on the tongue. What am I missing here?
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Old 12-11-2021, 05:40 PM   #19
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Your photo is showing a nearly 1200-lb tongue weight. The Airstream manual states that no more than 1000 pounds should be on the tongue. What am I missing here?
Owners of Airstream FBT models, we all have the same problem. Airstream specs show 867lbs tongue weight , while actual TW is 1200lbs or more. Mine measured 1240lbs TW on a Sherline scale, and calculated 1236lbs TW at the CAT Scale.
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:30 PM   #20
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Owners of Airstream FBT models, we all have the same problem. Airstream specs show 867lbs tongue weight , while actual TW is 1200lbs or more. Mine measured 1240lbs TW on a Sherline scale, and calculated 1236lbs TW at the CAT Scale.
So what to do when the manual says not to have more than 1,000lbs?

Anyone know what the reason is for the 1,000-lb limit?
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