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Old 06-09-2021, 08:41 PM   #81
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My 16 with 2 lifeline AGMs and 180 solar runs the fridge indefinitely while sitting in my driveway.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:48 AM   #82
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exactly! I think it important that Airstream listen to the boondocking crowd because the campers who cut the cord is growing. But the bigger the camper, the more limited in finding space or negotiating rougher roads it becomes. Maybe Airstream would be smart in building a boondocking line that are smaller and more nimble. Oops! I guess that's the Basecamp. They miss the boat with the Basecamp though because it has an electric only (12 volt) fridge & only a microwave & 2 burner stove. How are you going to run the microwave when boondocking without a generator? I rest my case
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:26 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
Not sure what you mean by “a typical absorption fridge”. Perhaps the size of the fridge is a variable because the 3 cu ft fridge in my 16’ Airstream pulls about half of the full amp you state.

Also, my typical vintage trailer has a typical propane absorption fridge that uses zero electricity.

I love the benefits of compressor fridges and see them as the future as solar and battery efficiency and costs improve. I may even convert mine to compressor. But I think it is fair to say that we are in a transition period and it would have been nice for Airstream to have given buyers the option — at least to have left the venting.
Hi

They started putting 12V control boards and the like into the absorption fridges decades ago. Any fridge AS could use *instead* of these compressor fridges will have that same 12V draw. That fine old 1960's fully mechanical technology got left behind in the 1960's ....

Bob
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:36 AM   #84
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Hi

They started putting 12V control boards and the like into the absorption fridges decades ago. Any fridge AS could use *instead* of these compressor fridges will have that same 12V draw. That fine old 1960's fully mechanical technology got left behind in the 1960's ....

Bob
Good points, and thanks for adding them to this discussion. I will soon be installing a Victron battery monitor and will add my actual 3 cu ft propane fridge electrical draw when I am able.

According to Nova Kool the compressor fridge that would replace the 3 cu ft absorption fridge draws 2.4 amps. However, they are silent on the issue of duty cycle. I respect your knowledge on this subject (and others) and wonder if you can enlighten us on the range of duty cycles to expect from compressor fridges in camping use. Thanks
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:54 AM   #85
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Change is a good thing

Why are most of the Posts so negative?

The trend is towards Compressor Refrigerators, both as Original Equipment and Replacement, not the other way around! I would think that would tell you something, or I am wrong?

Also, I am a little surprised that there aren't more comments about the Greatly Improved Safety aspect of these Comp Ref as well as their better all around performance.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:12 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
Good points, and thanks for adding them to this discussion. I will soon be installing a Victron battery monitor and will add my actual 3 cu ft propane fridge electrical draw when I am able.

According to Nova Kool the compressor fridge that would replace the 3 cu ft absorption fridge draws 2.4 amps. However, they are silent on the issue of duty cycle. I respect your knowledge on this subject (and others) and wonder if you can enlighten us on the range of duty cycles to expect from compressor fridges in camping use. Thanks
Not sure if it's a direct comparison, but the 5.7 cu ft Vitrifrigo compressor fridge in our coach has a duty cycle of 25% to about 40%, depending on the ambient temp inside the coach. Like any fridge, it will have to work harder as temps increase.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:32 PM   #87
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Not sure if it's a direct comparison, but the 5.7 cu ft Vitrifrigo compressor fridge in our coach has a duty cycle of 25% to about 40%, depending on the ambient temp inside the coach. Like any fridge, it will have to work harder as temps increase.
Excellent data, thanks! The duty cycle is a critical variable in determining how much solar and battery capacity is needed to supply the demand from compressor fridges, and at this point the least understood.

Can anyone else add knowledge/experience?
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:48 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
Good points, and thanks for adding them to this discussion. I will soon be installing a Victron battery monitor and will add my actual 3 cu ft propane fridge electrical draw when I am able.

According to Nova Kool the compressor fridge that would replace the 3 cu ft absorption fridge draws 2.4 amps. However, they are silent on the issue of duty cycle. I respect your knowledge on this subject (and others) and wonder if you can enlighten us on the range of duty cycles to expect from compressor fridges in camping use. Thanks
From my unscientific monitoring I’d say the duty cycle is about 50 percent. Like I mentioned in a previous post 2 AGMs and 180 solar keep my 3.0 cubic unit going indefinitely in my driveway with about 80 percent sunlight.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:12 AM   #89
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From my unscientific monitoring I’d say the duty cycle is about 50 percent. Like I mentioned in a previous post 2 AGMs and 180 solar keep my 3.0 cubic unit going indefinitely in my driveway with about 80 percent sunlight.
Do you have a compressor fridge in your 2016 trailer? If so, what make and model? (I am considering replacing my original 3.0 cu ft Dometic absorption fridge.)
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:45 AM   #90
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Excellent data, thanks! The duty cycle is a critical variable in determining how much solar and battery capacity is needed to supply the demand from compressor fridges, and at this point the least understood.

Can anyone else add knowledge/experience?
Hi

Duty cycle could be anything from 30% to 100%. The Nova Kool site gives two numbers for the compressor. One is the full on power draw ( for the one in the Interstate 24' that would be 2x 4.1A = 8.2 A). They also give an average draw number that includes typical duty cycle ( for the same fridge it is 3.5A).

With any fridge, duty cycle will be all over the map. Open the door a lot and up it goes. Toss in a. warm 6 pack (of water ... right ...) every hour or two, power consumption goes up. Sit there with the trailer at 105 degrees (been there / done that ) consumption goes up. Set everything *really* cold, consumption goes up ... What I see on mine probably isn't what you see on yours.

The *only* way to see what's what is with a logging DC amp meter on the wire to the fridge. It wold need to be a high resolution version. That's just not something folks tend to do. Few even have such a device. Tearing into things to install it for a week is not exactly easy. You could play with a BMV-712, but it's looking at the entire trailer, sorting out the fridge from everything else .... not easy at all.

Best target to use for planning is the average drain in the Nova Kool spec sheet.

Bob
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:05 AM   #91
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Hi

Duty cycle could be anything from 30% to 100%. The Nova Kool site gives two numbers for the compressor. One is the full on power draw ( for the one in the Interstate 24' that would be 2x 4.1A = 8.2 A). They also give an average draw number that includes typical duty cycle ( for the same fridge it is 3.5A).

With any fridge, duty cycle will be all over the map. Open the door a lot and up it goes. Toss in a. warm 6 pack (of water ... right ...) every hour or two, power consumption goes up. Sit there with the trailer at 105 degrees (been there / done that ) consumption goes up. Set everything *really* cold, consumption goes up ... What I see on mine probably isn't what you see on yours.

The *only* way to see what's what is with a logging DC amp meter on the wire to the fridge. It wold need to be a high resolution version. That's just not something folks tend to do. Few even have such a device. Tearing into things to install it for a week is not exactly easy. You could play with a BMV-712, but it's looking at the entire trailer, sorting out the fridge from everything else .... not easy at all.

Best target to use for planning is the average drain in the Nova Kool spec sheet.

Bob
THANK YOU! While the example is quite a different fridge (two 4.1 amp compressors vs. one 2.4 amp compressor) the duty cycles are probably close enough.

At that average drain their 3.5 cu ft fridge will draw about 25 amps per day which can be covered by the typical daily output of 30 amps from a single 100 watt solar panel (source: AM Solar).
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:27 AM   #92
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THANK YOU! While the example is quite a different fridge (two 4.1 amp compressors vs. one 2.4 amp compressor) the duty cycles are probably close enough.

At that average drain their 3.5 cu ft fridge will draw about 25 amps per day which can be covered by the typical daily output of 30 amps from a single 100 watt solar panel (source: AM Solar).
Hi

Back up a bit .....

The one in the Interstates is a dual compressor. There is one compressor for the freezer and another one for the "fridge" section. The idea is to give better control over the temperatures. The net result is that they don't run as much as a single compressor would run.

If your fridge runs at 50% duty cycle, then you are just shy of 30AH a day.

Getting 30AH out of a single 100W panel on a *very* good day, sure / maybe. Getting that on a *typical* day in a typical site .... probably not. With 4 panels on the roof, My typical numbers are around 60AH a day. Indeed I have seen days ( 2 out of a couple hundred) where I was up into 2.5X that.

Bob
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:23 AM   #93
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Do you have a compressor fridge in your 2016 trailer? If so, what make and model? (I am considering replacing my original 3.0 cu ft Dometic absorption fridge.)
I have to change that. I have a 2020 Caravel with a compressor fridge. The 2016 Sports I previously had always had fridge issues. Airstream really never installed them properly. Between the control board and constantly running two pancake fans the draw wasn’t much different then compressor unit.

One huge tip for cutting down run time is to monitor the fridge temp. I use a remote thermometer and keep it at 40f. There is no sense in having it maintain excessively low temps.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:52 PM   #94
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I have to change that. I have a 2020 Caravel with a compressor fridge. The 2016 Sports I previously had always had fridge issues. Airstream really never installed them properly. Between the control board and constantly running two pancake fans the draw wasn’t much different then compressor unit.

One huge tip for cutting down run time is to monitor the fridge temp. I use a remote thermometer and keep it at 40f. There is no sense in having it maintain excessively low temps.
Super helpful, many thanks. I have also added two fans and am still not happy with the fridge performance.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:59 PM   #95
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Hi

Back up a bit .....

The one in the Interstates is a dual compressor. There is one compressor for the freezer and another one for the "fridge" section. The idea is to give better control over the temperatures. The net result is that they don't run as much as a single compressor would run.

If your fridge runs at 50% duty cycle, then you are just shy of 30AH a day.

Getting 30AH out of a single 100W panel on a *very* good day, sure / maybe. Getting that on a *typical* day in a typical site .... probably not. With 4 panels on the roof, My typical numbers are around 60AH a day. Indeed I have seen days ( 2 out of a couple hundred) where I was up into 2.5X that.

Bob
Thanks, again. I agree that 50% duty cycle is the good assumption. I find it mystifying that your solar panel output experience is half of what AM Solar designs to based on their experience. I will probably start assuming 30 amps per 100w panel (camping out west with clear skies and fewer trees) and add a panel if necessary.
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:21 PM   #96
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“Sufficientmy clean”? Last I checked less than 10% of our power comes from non-fossil fuel sources….. closer to 6%.

Electric cars are coal powered and natural gas powered vehicles.
Perhaps it's been a while since you checked. Per the US Energy Information Admin it was about 40% non-fossil (renewables plus nuclear) in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...-in-the-us.php

In terms of overall energy efficiency, modern coal plants are somewhat more efficient than modern automotive engines. Even with the inherent cycle inefficiencies in charging/discharging batteries, battery-powered cars where the electricity comes from coal are likely more efficient overall than the all-gasoline counterparts, though they're not some magical panacea.
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:24 PM   #97
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I have a 2022 23CB bunk on order and was told it will be electric only and it will be larger than the one in the 2021 as the microwave is now under the cooktop. No ability to have the propane oven and the convection microwave in the 2022 per my dealer and AS rep.
For a long while they've not offered the combination of gas oven and convection microwave. Many floorplans have had the option of having a gas oven and a regular microwave though. Is that an option? Or was no propane oven offered at all?
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:16 PM   #98
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Will NOT BUY with an Electric Only Refer.... EVER

Our 2019 International was the last of the designer Christopher Deam models. It came with Propane / Electric Dometic. Not that impressed with the 'whatever' colors and design features... but it works. Added covers over the seating made to fit and like this combination at OUR expense and my wife's sewing and cutting experience.

Dealer said that Airstream is going to all electric refers... Good. I will never purchase a new trailer again from Airstream.

Maybe an Environmental Change in policy. Propane is a clean fuel and works great in our 27 footer large Refer.

I do not RV Park camp... if I can avoid it even to save my life. I am that old. I like what works well and Propane Refers are great. You learn how to get the system on line before you depart your home which has so many things that are ready to break down... but NOT my Propane Refer, Furnace, Hot Water Tank.

Bowlus may have gone all electric, as well. I looked at one on display and it is a real GEM. Beautiful. Well made and worked out... but not for a Boondocker at any price. Would not work out for us. Ever.

Anyone going to ALL Electric better be a RV Park individual. If not... you will be disappointed owning or when you go to sell.

Simple is good. I like to read simple instructions... on, off, left, right. Simple.

I do not need remote turning on lights, off. Even the computer awning was a risk, but it works well when you know what NOT to DO when using it.

My 2019 will be my LAST Airstream. Even if new models go to Propane/Electric again... my current 27 footer is all we need and by the time I am older than everyone on this Forum... which could be a challenge... knowing a few of you, I will be getting more money for my ANTIQUE than your Late Model.

Oliver will be kicking some butts if they keep options available to the OTG Boondocking Crowd. If they go to longer than 25 feet a little... I want to see it. My Airstream experience and the Oliver experience will be a rather interesting Mind Meld of sorts. Oh yeah... Narrower than an Airstream AND built like a Luxury Boat on Double Axles and probably would float if needed. I like that...
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:36 PM   #99
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Anyone going to ALL Electric better be a RV Park individual.

.
There is an alternative to the dreaded (by us) RV parks for an all electric trailer: spend thousands on solar panels, lithium batteries, and all of the miscellaneous electrical gadgets also needed. Then you can go off grid indefinitely (water excepted).

I get that this is not an attractive option for a large number of people, and I do think Airstream showed some disregard for the true camping crowd by going electric refrigerators only (I.e. no propane option) while the cost of solar and lithium are still so high.
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Old 06-12-2021, 03:37 AM   #100
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. . .
I get that this is not an attractive option for a large number of people, and I do think Airstream showed some disregard for the true camping crowd by going electric refrigerators only (I.e. no propane option) while the cost of solar and lithium are still so high.
"More profit" trumps "camping crowd" needs IMO.

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