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Old 09-26-2020, 08:24 PM   #1
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2019 20' Flying Cloud
Eau Claire , Wisconsin
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BAM! while winterizing 20’ FC

Yesterday I thought I would winterize the 2019 FC. I cleaned and emptied all tanks and lines. The next step was to turn the yellow knob to the off position under the dining seat to blow out the hot water faucets. I heard this gurgling sound from the hot water heater so I stopped and took out the big plastic screw. It blew out with quite a force. I am using 45 lb psi. I tried different setting on the yellow valve but to no avail. The hot water tank continues-to fill with air. I bleed it off with the water faucets. Has anyone ran into this before or what am I doing wrong. Winter up coming to northern Wisconsin soon. I could use your help. Thanks, Joe
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:41 PM   #2
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We never use the bypass valve, so not sure . . . maybe that is not working right?

When you drained all the hot and cold supply lines, you should have also drained the water heater by removing that plastic plug, then put it back in, and continued with the compressed air blowing out all lines. Then take the plug out again. Per mfg. booklet the small amount of water remaining in the heater is OK for winter.

Don’t forget to follow the owner’s manual about the pump and filter. When removing the filter we also free up the supply line coming from the water tank, and blow into it by mouth to force any water in that line back into the tank [whose drain should be open as well].

By the way there is a 20’ thread for a more focused audience:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...rs-127845.html

Also, remember to blow out all the low point drains as a final step, even if you already blew them
out before. Gravity can suck misc. water into odd places during this process.

Good luck,
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:46 PM   #3
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Since air is compressible, a given volume of air at a certain pressure contains MUCH more energy than the same volume and pressure liquid.
I’m not sure what procedure you are using, but I would open all low point drains and all faucets to let the system drain by gravity. Straighten the shower hoses inside and outside. Then apply air gently at the high points to push water out of the lines. Trying to push a column of water uphill doesn’t assure the line will empty out, and will tempt you to use unsafe airflow rates.
I am based in Florida and have not needed to winterize, but A-S seems to provide a system that is easy to drain.
On an SOB in Illinois, I blew a pump apart because I left water in the pumping chamber and it froze. After that I would disconnect the hoses and tip it to drain completely.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:34 PM   #4
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I live in WI. I blow out my lines before I put antifreeze in.
1) Empty the water out of the hot water heater.
2) Make sure the bypass valve is turned to bypass hot water heater.
2) Open up one faucet.
3) Connect compressor to the water inlet. I set it to 60lbs.
4) Turn on the compressor.
5) Then proceed to open each faucet and the toilet until no water comes out.
6) Always keep a faucet open then turn off the compressor.

The biggest issue with blowing out the lines is that there is likely to be water left in the pump. So you will need to open up and turn it on to get rid of the water. If you don’t it will freeze and ruin the pump. Also make sure the filter doesn’t have water in it. Open it up and dab it up with a cloth.

I go the extra mile of running antifreeze through the system. I simply do not trust blowing out the lines, and I don’t like messing with the pump. So I don’t open it up and run it. I have it set up to easily pump the antifreeze through the system. It’s well worth doing this in WI.

You could just run antifreeze through the system without blowing it out. I have done that before and it works fine. I blow it out only because it takes less antifreeze.
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Old 09-27-2020, 03:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
I blow it out only because it takes less antifreeze.
Please explain, seems to me it would use the same, if it uses less it's only because it's diluted down, and too me that is not good. I just hook my compressor to the city water and start open and closing ALL water valves. Don't forget the outside shower and low point drain's on the bottom .my2¢
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:36 AM   #6
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I removed my bypass valve set up. I open all drains and blow it all out before a hard freeze.
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Old 09-28-2020, 12:00 PM   #7
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This method has helped me over the past 20 years in colder climates. It's a bit excessive and methodical, but never had a problem in weeks of -30F in the past 20, and if in the really cold climates, it easier to do this than replace plumbing pipes.

1) Build a short hose with a snap-on/quick connect adapter to connected to an air pump.

2) Connect short hose with snap on adapter to city water inlet

3) If compressor not on, turn on, and set for 40-45psi

4) Having already made sure water heater is empty, turn on bypass to bypass water heater

5) Open one water fixture at a time until mostly air comes out-- remember, the goal is not to have bone dry water lines, just so that most of the water is out so it can't collect, freeze and burst a pipe---though PEX is a bit more tolerant

6)Open hot and cold low point valves one at a time, then close.

7)Re-open each water fixture again (both hot then cold or cold then hot) repeating step 5

8)Open low cold and hot points one at a time

At this point your rig is mostly drained of any significant water

9) If you Airstream is so equipped, remove the custom built hose attachment from the city water connection (after depressurizing the air compressor line), connect to the black tank flush. Set air pressure for 35-40lbs and let it run for 10-15 second.

10)Next, if you haven't already bought and assembled one, get a barb and hose the same diameter of the water pump intake from your local hardware store. Unscrew pump water intake, connect your barb to the pump intake and plastic hose to barb. Take open end of hose and insert into full RV anti-freeze bottle (preferably -50 below rated stuff). Turn on pump and tilt bottle to help prime pump. Goal here is to get the pump cavity full of RV antifreeze. No need to pump it through the entire plumbing system since you already blew out all the water.

11)If you haven't already emptied your fresh water tank, do so now.

12) Pour liberal amount of RV antifreeze in all water fixtures that have a trap. Liberal amount means enough to dillute/displace the water in the trap to prevent it from freezing. The more water that is displaced, the lower the temp the liquid will resist freezing.

13)Pull black and gray tanks to empty, then re-close.

14) Pour small amount of RV Antifreeze in the toilet so that the seal on the toilet and the seal at the black tank has some RV antifreeze touching it. It will keep the seals moist.

15)Again, pour a small amount of RV antifreeze into a sink or shower drain to get some back into the gray tank. This will also keep that tank drain seal moist. I do it this way because in step 11 will have a high mixture of water and antifreeze in the tank, at this stage, there should be more antifreeze than water.

15.5) Wash the exterior, put a good coat of wax on it, lube the moving parts (doors, strikers, stabilizer jack, wipe down the entry step with WD-40 if it's steel entry step, air up tires to max pressure indicated on sidewall, park Airstream. If indoor, roll it up on carpet with some padding under (or lift it off the ground to extend the life of the torsion axles). Both will reduce flat spots from happening. Remove batteries, shut off LP tanks. Prop fridge open a hair. Any window/door rubber seals should be wiped down with an armor all type material. Will help keep seals in good shape and tend to have easier opening in the spring.

16) Pop yourself a cold one, and dream of spring knowing your RV is ready for winter.

Hope this helps.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panamerican View Post
This method has helped me over the past 20 years in colder climates. It's a bit excessive and methodical, but never had a problem in weeks of -30F in the past 20, and if in the really cold climates, it easier to do this than replace plumbing pipes.

1) Build a short hose with a snap-on/quick connect adapter to connected to an air pump.

2) Connect short hose with snap on adapter to city water inlet

3) If compressor not on, turn on, and set for 40-45psi

4) Having already made sure water heater is empty, turn on bypass to bypass water heater

5) Open one water fixture at a time until mostly air comes out-- remember, the goal is not to have bone dry water lines, just so that most of the water is out so it can't collect, freeze and burst a pipe---though PEX is a bit more tolerant

6)Open hot and cold low point valves one at a time, then close.

7)Re-open each water fixture again (both hot then cold or cold then hot) repeating step 5

8)Open low cold and hot points one at a time

At this point your rig is mostly drained of any significant water

9) If you Airstream is so equipped, remove the custom built hose attachment from the city water connection (after depressurizing the air compressor line), connect to the black tank flush. Set air pressure for 35-40lbs and let it run for 10-15 second.

10)Next, if you haven't already bought and assembled one, get a barb and hose the same diameter of the water pump intake from your local hardware store. Unscrew pump water intake, connect your barb to the pump intake and plastic hose to barb. Take open end of hose and insert into full RV anti-freeze bottle (preferably -50 below rated stuff). Turn on pump and tilt bottle to help prime pump. Goal here is to get the pump cavity full of RV antifreeze. No need to pump it through the entire plumbing system since you already blew out all the water.

11)If you haven't already emptied your fresh water tank, do so now.

12) Pour liberal amount of RV antifreeze in all water fixtures that have a trap. Liberal amount means enough to dillute/displace the water in the trap to prevent it from freezing. The more water that is displaced, the lower the temp the liquid will resist freezing.

13)Pull black and gray tanks to empty, then re-close.

14) Pour small amount of RV Antifreeze in the toilet so that the seal on the toilet and the seal at the black tank has some RV antifreeze touching it. It will keep the seals moist.

15)Again, pour a small amount of RV antifreeze into a sink or shower drain to get some back into the gray tank. This will also keep that tank drain seal moist. I do it this way because in step 11 will have a high mixture of water and antifreeze in the tank, at this stage, there should be more antifreeze than water.

15.5) Wash the exterior, put a good coat of wax on it, lube the moving parts (doors, strikers, stabilizer jack, wipe down the entry step with WD-40 if it's steel entry step, air up tires to max pressure indicated on sidewall, park Airstream. If indoor, roll it up on carpet with some padding under (or lift it off the ground to extend the life of the torsion axles). Both will reduce flat spots from happening. Remove batteries, shut off LP tanks. Prop fridge open a hair. Any window/door rubber seals should be wiped down with an armor all type material. Will help keep seals in good shape and tend to have easier opening in the spring.

16) Pop yourself a cold one, and dream of spring knowing your RV is ready for winter.

Hope this helps.
Copycat!!!! Just kidding, that's how I do mine also

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081NB5WSZ..._QzJCFbC2XBAWC
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150mike View Post
Copycat!!!! Just kidding, that's how I do mine also

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081NB5WSZ..._QzJCFbC2XBAWC

I really like that quick connect. I didn't know such a beast even existed. I get all these water filters and they all come with these 6" sections of hose, didn't even occur to me that I didn't need to fabricate something. When my 6" section of hose wears out, I'm going with that garden hose quick connect....thanks for the tip!!
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:17 PM   #10
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Frederick , Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150mike View Post
Please explain, seems to me it would use the same, if it uses less it's only because it's diluted down, and too me that is not good. I just hook my compressor to the city water and start open and closing ALL water valves. Don't forget the outside shower and low point drain's on the bottom .my2¢
I was not the person who wrote this, but I also blow out before anti-freeze. I consider that it uses less because as SOON as the pink comes out a faucet you are done. When there is water in the lines you have to pump a bit more to make sure it is "full pink" and not too diluted. I don't think it is a great difference and that is not why I blow the lines first. I just do both because the chance of screwing up is less :-)
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backfortyjoe View Post
Yesterday I thought I would winterize the 2019 FC. I cleaned and emptied all tanks and lines. The next step was to turn the yellow knob to the off position under the dining seat to blow out the hot water faucets. I heard this gurgling sound from the hot water heater so I stopped and took out the big plastic screw. It blew out with quite a force. I am using 45 lb psi. I tried different setting on the yellow valve but to no avail. The hot water tank continues-to fill with air. I bleed it off with the water faucets. Has anyone ran into this before or what am I doing wrong. Winter up coming to northern Wisconsin soon. I could use your help. Thanks, Joe

On some of the newer trailers, the bypass valve is not a true bypass. It just cuts off the cold water to the hot water tank. The hot side is still connected to the hot side of all the faucets. On one of these trailers if you have a single handle faucet set to mix hot and cold, or hot and cold open at the same time on a double handle fixture, the water heater tank is now connected to pressure. The manuals for these trailers, at least the ones I have looked a just suggest the use of compressed air and do not mention antifreeze.


Older trailers had three valves to shut off cold water into the tank, hot water out of the tank, and a bypass valve to connect the hot and cold plumbing together. Some newer trailers have an actual bypass valve but some don't. how many pipes connect to your bypass valve? If it is only two, it isn't a true bypass, and your results are probably normal.
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
I was not the person who wrote this, but I also blow out before anti-freeze. I consider that it uses less because as SOON as the pink comes out a faucet you are done. When there is water in the lines you have to pump a bit more to make sure it is "full pink" and not too diluted. I don't think it is a great difference and that is not why I blow the lines first. I just do both because the chance of screwing up is less :-)
Now I know it makes perfect sense thank you for clarification
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:16 PM   #13
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In addition to the excellent instructions using air pressure, I also use a shop vac with a long hose and use it to coax any residual water out of the various hoses and valves i disconnect/expose by unscrewing the hand-tight fittings at the toilet and pump.

This year I flipped on the pump for a second after all that and was surprised to see about 1/4-1/2 cup of water shoot out onto the floor. Glad I did that.
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:45 PM   #14
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I basically follow panamerican's ritual. I live in Eastern Washington where winter temps regularly get close to and occasionally below zero. Been doing this for 16 winters.


I use air only. First, I drain the fw tank, gray and black tanks and drain and bypass the hw tank.


I hook up the air set at about 50 psi and blow all the lines including the low point drains.


I then run the water pump dry which will put a bit of water in the lines.


I hook up the air for a second time and blow everything again.


I take the sink spray thingy off and take it into the house for the winter. I also do this with the kitchen Moen faucet with the built in filter. I also make sure I have blown out the outside shower and the toilet flusher.


I put in enough pink stuff in all the drains so that some of it makes its way into the gray tank to protect the seal there. Do the same for the black tank.


Messed up (twice!) with the sink sprayer. Had to replace it both times. That is why I bring it in each year.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:36 PM   #15
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I have redone my water system so the water pump, main filter and sink triple filter are easily removed for winter.
The main high flow filter and pump use street connector, they are made to easily disconnect.

I replace all water filter elements each season
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:30 PM   #16
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Eau Claire , Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backfortyjoe View Post
Yesterday I thought I would winterize the 2019 FC. I cleaned and emptied all tanks and lines. The next step was to turn the yellow knob to the off position under the dining seat to blow out the hot water faucets. I heard this gurgling sound from the hot water heater so I stopped and took out the big plastic screw. It blew out with quite a force. I am using 45 lb psi. I tried different setting on the yellow valve but to no avail. The hot water tank continues-to fill with air. I bleed it off with the water faucets. Has anyone ran into this before or what am I doing wrong. Winter up coming to northern Wisconsin soon. I could use your help. Thanks, Joe

Thanks to all that responded. With all that gave me info I was able to go through the procedures of a newer winterizing where there are not 3 valves to operate with. Glad for your help otherwise it would had been a disaster come spring. Looks like it should be blown out with the yellow valve turned off then on also using the drain line valves under the back of the trailer. There is a small white valve buried beneath the yellow valve under the dining seat and under the in and out lines to the water heater. It didn't do much at all. But...... who knows what it for?

Best regards, Joe
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