30’ FC Office w/ 2018 Lincoln Nav Reserve 4x4

[Texarado]

Hi:

I’m a newbie to the forums and airstreams and towing generally. We’re an outdoors family that has always tent camped. We’re now in the market for a trailer.

My wife drives a 2018 Lincoln Navigator Reserve 4x4. The tow capacity is 8300. Realistically, am I making a mechanical and safety mistake choosing something as large as a 2021 30’ FC? We’re alternatively looking at the 25’ model.

We have 3 young-ish kids ages 13,11 and 8. That’s the reason for the debate on 30 vs 25. I won’t have a stronger tow vehicle until late ‘22 most likely.

I’d greatly appreciate any thoughts and my apologies if I posted this in the wrong spot.

[SSquared]

Welcome to Airforums! We are glad to have you with us.

As for your question, you will probably hear multiple opinions soon.

Most often, the key limitation will be the tow vehicle's payload capacity, not the towing capacity. The first thing to know is that when manufacturers list the payload capacity of a vehicle on their website, that is for a base model vehicle with no options. All the options and features that get added reduce the usable payload. You need to go out to your Navigator and find the yellow label on the door jamb, it will have a payload limit number that accounts for all the goodies you have on that "Reserve" model.

Next, add up the weight of all your family members. Then add a thousand pounds as a guesstimate for how much the tongue weight of a loaded, large Airstream trailer will be. You may well exceed the payload rating of your Navigator even if you bring absolutely no cargo inside.

Also, know that Airstream lists the tongue weight for each model trailer on their website. But that number is for an empty trailer (with no options). People usually find that the tongue weight is higher when the trailer is loaded. That is especially true of the front bedroom models (because much of the storage is located under the bed). This added weight can be a few hundred pounds.

[Dennis C]

Hello and welcome! I agree with the comments above.

Unfortunately, you’re going to be pushing (or exceeding) the maximum payload limits with either the 25 or the 30 footer with that particular tow vehicle and your crew.

Can you post your vehicle’s payload information? This would be helpful.

[jondrew55]

As an owner of a 25' Globetrotter I think you'll find that size Airstream a pretty tight fit with 3 kids. You'll be transforming the dinette and couch to beds every night. That said, if you're tent campers and used to close quarters maybe that is not an issue for you. I assume you're looking into the Office model because at least on of you plans on working while camping? Have you looked at the Flying cloud Bunkhouse floor plan?

As far as your tow vehicle goes, I'm pretty sure most here would say you could get away with the 25' FC, but definitely would be in questionable territory with the 30' and all the stuff a family of 5 would be bringing along.

At the risk of heresy for the Airstream forums, might suggest looking at some other brand bunkhouse models? We were about to buy one of these Rockwood Bunkhouse trailers with a Murphy bed. https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/trave...ite/2509S/3326
It's light weight, has a small slide out to give you some extra room, the Queen Murphy bed seems fairly comfortable (and can be much improved with a foam mattress topper). And if you can find one (they are quite popular) are about 1/3 the price of a FC. It would still be a bit of a tight fit for the fam, but certainly better than a 25' Flying Cloud. It will get you trailer camping, be a better fit for your tow vehicle, give you a better idea of what you want when you go for when you move up to Airstream.

[tbrowne]

I agree with jondrew55, you need a different camper. Something with a slide out that has room for a family of five. Five persons in an Airstream will have little room to move about in the daytime and no room once beds are made. Some say they'll be outside most of the time and that may be true but there will be rainy days when you're forced inside and it can be very tight without some extra room.

[s1000pre]

I’m not sure how tall your family is. The 30 Bunk basically has two queen beds. I just measured the lower bunk and it’s 78”x55” wall to wall. If your youngest can fit up top 78” x 28”, you won’t need to convert anything. Otherwise they can sleep on the lounge with a 3” mattress topper that can be stored in the bunk area.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by s1000pre

I’m not sure how tall your family is. The 30 Bunk basically has two queen beds. I just measured the lower bunk and it’s 78”x55” wall to wall. If your youngest can fit up top 78” x 28”, you won’t need to convert anything. Otherwise they can sleep on the lounge with a 3” mattress topper that can be stored in the bunk area.

The FC bunk was our favorite choice for a while, but we decided we wanted to keep the size down (like the 25') and really wanted the "full window" airstream experience. That said, we never were able to find a new or used FC Bunk to consider anywhere locally and ended up deciding between the 25' Globetrotter or a 27' Serenity that were for sale nearby.

Back to the tow vehicle. I think the Navigator could serve even a 30' but I'd really hesitate long, hi way trips until a more suitable TV comes around. But if you search the forum, I'm sure you'll find lots of "nah, it'll be fine" threads.

Check out post 33 in this thread https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...ml#post2527420. There is an interesting link to towing with SUVs in that post. Not saying I agree with it, but you should check out both sides of the argument.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by jmslade

Hi:

I’m a newbie to the forums and airstreams and towing generally. We’re an outdoors family that has always tent camped. We’re now in the market for a trailer.

My wife drives a 2018 Lincoln Navigator Reserve 4x4. The tow capacity is 8300. Realistically, am I making a mechanical and safety mistake choosing something as large as a 2021 30’ FC? We’re alternatively looking at the 25’ model.

We have 3 young-ish kids ages 13,11 and 8. That’s the reason for the debate on 30 vs 25. I won’t have a stronger tow vehicle until late ‘22 most likely.

I’d greatly appreciate any thoughts and my apologies if I posted this in the wrong spot.

I tow a Flying Cloud 25 RBT with a 2018 Navigator - 2 wheel drive and 8,700 lbs. towing and 1,552 payload. It works very well for us, but there are just two of us and two smaller dogs. We are careful not to put too much cargo in the truck. The 25 rear bedroom is as big as I would go with a Navigator. The front bedroom 25's real world tongue weights are too much for the receiver which has a 950 lbs. limit. In my opinion, you will not have enough payload for a bigger trailer and your family.

[sk3225]

Hi and welcome to the site. You're going to receive great perspective, experience and expertise on this site.

I have had my airstream for approx., 1.5 years. It is a 2020 25' FC. I have 3 kids (10, 13, 13) my wife, dog and myself. We selected the 25' to have the smallest vehicle that would accommodate our travel plans (National Parks, State parks, etc.). It has been a great choice, but everyone has different needs. At the time of purchase, I had a 2015 GMC Yukon Denali XL (6.2L, 8 speed trans). The Yukon easily pulled the AS - no issues at all. My issue was payload and axel weight rating, as mentioned in this site. I traded the 2015 GMC Yukon a little over a year ago for a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali with the 6.6L Diesel and 10 speed transmission. Overkill for sure, but I love it. I average 14 - 17 mpg pulling the trailer, fully loaded (a little less in the mountains, but not much less). I have towed my trailer over 15,000 miles this past year and have been happy with the combination. You may want to calculate/estimate the weight of your gear, passengers, etc., where it will go (trailer or truck), and review your weigh/payload values for your vehicles and determine what vehicles meet that criteria. Good luck with your choice!

[panamerican]

The 30' bunk layout is by far the best for a family as far as Airstream goes, however, that trailer empty is about 7000lbs. Passengers and cargo being deducted from tow capacity and obviously you will not be towing that empty, it's pretty clear you will have far exceeded the stated capacity of the Lincoln.

Might squeak by on the flatland, but any hilly or real mountains and it won't be pretty.

Keep in mind you are talking a $100k trailer. Having the right tool for the job with your entire family in that rig should be paramount. Buy the trailer, don't compromise on the tow vehicle.

[Texarado]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

I tow a Flying Cloud 25 RBT with a 2018 Navigator - 2 wheel drive and 8,700 lbs. towing and 1,552 payload. It works very well for us, but there are just two of us and two smaller dogs. We are careful not to put too much cargo in the truck. The 25 rear bedroom is as big as I would go with a Navigator. The front bedroom 25's real world tongue weights are too much for the receiver which has a 950 lbs. limit. In my opinion, you will not have enough payload for a bigger trailer and your family.

What impact does the weight distribution hitch (Pro Pride or Hensley) have on the tongue weight? The dealer is saying it will significantly reduce the weight on the receiver, essentially doubling the rated capacity. I called and just expressed my concerns as we have the 25’ on order and honestly a bit worried at this point. I assume we would need to travel with the generator and other heavy items just inside the door in the rear of the trailer?

[Texarado]

Originally Posted by s1000pre

I’m not sure how tall your family is. The 30 Bunk basically has two queen beds. I just measured the lower bunk and it’s 78”x55” wall to wall. If your youngest can fit up top 78” x 28”, you won’t need to convert anything. Otherwise they can sleep on the lounge with a 3” mattress topper that can be stored in the bunk area.

I was discouraged away from the bunk by the dealership. They said there’s only about 15” clearance at the highest point. My daughter is 8 and while she’s young, I’m 6’5” and my wife is 5’9. Paying for the bunk and losing the storage space seemed to be a shortsighted investment.

[Texarado]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

Hello and welcome! I agree with the comments above.

Unfortunately, you’re going to be pushing (or exceeding) the maximum payload limits with either the 25 or the 30 footer with that particular tow vehicle and your crew.

Can you post your vehicle’s payload information? This would be helpful.

The payload is right at 1,500. Towing capacity is 8300. As I indicated in one of the other replies, the dealership has absolutely assured me that with the weight distribution hitch, I need not worry on the tongue.

I’m truly at a loss of what I’m hearing/reading here and what the dealership is telling me. I did mention possibly going with the 30 or even a 27, and they’ve told me that I’m solid with the 25FB. So, if they wanted to upsell, they have had their chances.

I’m just baffled at the competing thoughts. It’s like I might as well have asked about Trump or Biden. (No seriously, that was a joke, please no need to comment on that!)

[jondrew55]

Lol. Sorry man, you asked the question that even people who are saying the same thing won’t agree on.

Originally Posted by jmslade

The payload is right at 1,500. Towing capacity is 8300. As I indicated in one of the other replies, the dealership has absolutely assured me that with the weight distribution hitch, I need not worry on the tongue.

I’m truly at a loss of what I’m hearing/reading here and what the dealership is telling me. I did mention possibly going with the 30 or even a 27, and they’ve told me that I’m solid with the 25FB. So, if they wanted to upsell, they have had their chances.

I’m just baffled at the competing thoughts. It’s like I might as well have asked about Trump or Biden. (No seriously, that was a joke, please no need to comment on that!)

[Texarado]

I’m afraid to ask this follow up question, but….

Assuming we go with the FC 25FB for the Navigator, is there a reason I should be looking at the Equalizer hitch (lighter weight) as opposed to the ProPride or Hensley WDH? I know the FB is already going to be adding tongue weight, so should I be going with the equalizer, which I believe is a good bit (50%) lighter?

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by jmslade

The payload is right at 1,500. Towing capacity is 8300. As I indicated in one of the other replies, the dealership has absolutely assured me that with the weight distribution hitch, I need not worry on the tongue.

I’m truly at a loss of what I’m hearing/reading here and what the dealership is telling me. I did mention possibly going with the 30 or even a 27, and they’ve told me that I’m solid with the 25FB. So, if they wanted to upsell, they have had their chances.

I’m just baffled at the competing thoughts. It’s like I might as well have asked about Trump or Biden. (No seriously, that was a joke, please no need to comment on that!)

Regardless of what’s published in the airstream literature, I measured the tongue weight on my 2019 FC30 Bunkhouse to be 1200 lbs according to the CAT scales.

[Revery]

Welcome to the group. I can tell you from experience that you will not be happy trying to tow a 30 with that TV. When we started we had a 23' FC and towed with an Infinity QX5 which had a tow capacity of 9000 lbs. It was ok for shorter trips but would lag on some of the long CA inclines. We then took delivery of a 28' FC and towed across country with the Infinity and was not at all happy with results. It was pushed to the limit and struggled on hills. We switched to a Dodge Ram 2500 with cummings diesel and it's a world of difference. Towing at 68-69 MPH and no sway or struggle. If you are going with the a 30' trailer be sure to get plenty of TV power and capacity to make the journey pleasant.

[Texarado]

I think for now I’m going to cautiously move forward on the 25. What I’m trying to understand is the impact that a weight distribution hitch will have on the tongue weight.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by jmslade

I think for now I’m going to cautiously move forward on the 25. What I’m trying to understand is the impact that a weight distribution hitch will have on the tongue weight.

A WD hitch will “shift the load” to the front axels of your Navigator. I’m choosing my word very carefully because there are endless threads here about exactly how to state what a WD hitch does. From your point of view, once you drop your trailer on the hitch, the rear of your tow vehicle will sag. You can adjust the spring tension with the WD hitch to compensate for that via the torque imparted by the springs. Even though the 25’ is a lighter trailer overall, it’s design gives it a very heavy tongue weight.

Others will disagree but if you pack light (remember you have a family of 5) and try to drive slowly and deliberately you’ll eventually get the idea. Try to stay below 65 on the highway and leave lots of room to stop. You’ll be surprised how long it takes even on local roads driving 45 mph. Watch YouTube videos about trailer sway. You don’t want to overcompensate for high tongue weight by overloading the rear of your trailer. If you enjoy it enough, one day you’ll be here providing contradictory information to newbies just like us.

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by jmslade

The payload is right at 1,500. Towing capacity is 8300. As I indicated in one of the other replies, the dealership has absolutely assured me that with the weight distribution hitch, I need not worry on the tongue.

I’m truly at a loss of what I’m hearing/reading here and what the dealership is telling me. I did mention possibly going with the 30 or even a 27, and they’ve told me that I’m solid with the 25FB. So, if they wanted to upsell, they have had their chances.

I’m just baffled at the competing thoughts. It’s like I might as well have asked about Trump or Biden. (No seriously, that was a joke, please no need to comment on that!)

It can get very confusing, particularly when you’re close to the limits of your tow vehicle. I’ve actually got a spreadsheet that I use to calculate load and balance when I tow so that I can decide what needs to go in the truck bed and what needs to go in the trailer. I weighed every item that goes in the truck or trailer. I’ve confirmed my calculations with a trip to the CAT scale.

1,500 lbs. of payload isn’t as much as it seems. If your trailer tongue weight is 1,100 lbs., then that leaves you with 400 lbs. of capacity for 2 adults and 3 kids and whatever else you load in the vehicle. That’s not much.

Some people say that you can exceed the payload rating as long as you don’t exceed the front or rear axle ratings. I’m not one of those people. I’ve never heard anyone explain why it’s okay to exceed some limits and not others. Personally, I try to stay under all the published limits.

Most people, including dealerships, tend to look at maximum tow rating and nothing else. I think this is where the confusion begins.