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Tadfar · 08-03-2021, 07:35 PM

i have a 23CB ordered so this is an email I received from my dealer today

One of the pleasant enhancements on the Flying Cloud and International models is the new All Electric Refrigerator. This refrigerator is efficient, safer, energy efficient, cools quicker, offers constant temps and…… LARGER!!!!!

With the larger refrigerator, the microwave will NO Longer be installed over the refrigerator on the 2022 23CB, 23FB and 25RB Flying Cloud / International units. On these units, the standard build will be a full oven with cooktop and will not come equipped with a microwave. If the customer wishes to have a microwave on 2022 23CB, 23FB and 25RB Flying Cloud / International units, they must select the convection which will be installed in place of the full oven. This is the same way the 25 Front Bed has been for several years. Please review the microwave options with those customers with orders placed in the system.

The refrigerator sizes
23CB, 23FB - 6.8 cu ft
25 - 28 - 8 cu ft
30 - 10 cu f
Reminder that the Globetrotter 25FB (due to the rounded walls and furniture) maintains the 6.8 cu ft fridge (same as the 23FB).

Shattered · 08-03-2021, 10:18 PM

What do you think about it? Is the bigger fridge worth the trade off? Will you get the convection/microwave?

Tadfar · 08-04-2021, 05:51 AM

Actually we prefer boondocking a lot so i love the gas oven and really did not use the microwave in our 2010 27FB. So the only reason i got the microwave at all was because the 23CB came with both the gas oven and microwave.

So i asked my dealer to delete the microwave and have the gas oven only. The dealer is checking with the rep to see if they can facilitate the "Change Order".

Mine is supposed to be build complete on 24 August, so we will see

Gotta_Travel · 08-04-2021, 06:55 AM

We just received a similar message from our dealer yesterday. We had purchased the upgraded microwave/convection oven but now I don’t know if we should keep it. We’ll be first time RVrs (23CB on order) and hadn’t planned to boondock much - but we could see it as a viable alternative between destinations for an overnighter. That means no electricity so using only the stovetop or now hooking up the grill. [emoji19] I’m considering taking the oven option and buying a small conv/micro; HOWEVER, with limited storage and counter top, that won’t be without challenges.
What do all you experienced AS owners suggest?

On a separate note, while it’s nice to be getting a larger fridge, the wife and I were comfortable with the size and our purchase decision included that understanding and a desire to have BOTH the conv/micro and oven. In my opinion, It’s pretty weak of AS to 1) not be able to communicate this information earlier in the year, knowing there is nothing to look at and everything is being ordered. Surely someone knew about the design changes! 2) In addition to charging a hefty price for the conv/micro and a steep unit price increase from 2021 to 2022, they are taking something away from the consumer! I don’t think the refrigerator size compensates in cost for the value and loss of the oven.

Bobbo · 08-04-2021, 07:58 AM

I told the wife about this. Her response was "well, that would be a deal breaker." She wants both a gas oven AND a microwave. She doesn't care about a convection microwave.

Shattered · 08-04-2021, 08:06 AM

I have the gas oven and the micro. I didn’t want to combine them because they serve different purpose.

I think my bigger concern is the fridge. Not having any redundancy with the electric only option worries me. Maybe the gas/electric is less efficient…. But I’ve got two ways to keep it working if need be.

Thonevan · 08-04-2021, 09:11 AM

I had a 22 Bambi Sport with convection microwave.. I used it to heat up my coffee. I now have a 22 international with no oven, so I have a counter top micro. I had a 1974 Argosy.. I never used the oven.. Mostly summer camp and cook outside. Extra Refer space is a +.. I liked the 25 Rear Bunk because you could get both..

uncle_bob · 08-04-2021, 09:16 AM

Hi

We have both in our trailer. Given the choice, I'd go with the gas fired oven. We bring along a Breville "super" toaster oven. It gets used more than either the microwave or the gas oven. If we are off grid, the gas oven does get used, but not a lot. The microwave is in that same league.

Some of the gas ovens seem to work better than others. The one in our Classic does very well. You can cook bread in it without scorching anything. This seems to be problematic in some of the smaller gas ovens.

Would loosing either the gas oven or the microwave be a deal breaker for us? Not really. I'd actually prefer to have the storage space for something else.

Now, a bigger fridge? THAT is something I'd go for. There never is enough fridge / freezer space. ( except when the absorption fridge hiccups and you loose everything in there ... then it's way to large ....).

Fun !!!

Bob

switz · 08-04-2021, 09:38 AM

Our 2015 23D International Serenity now has a Ventrifrigo 5.4 cubic foot refrigerator that has a Freon based Dan Foss compressor which is 12Vdc and with five 100 watt solar panels on the roof and a 315 amp Hour lithium battery, it runs as needed. The stock lead acid batteries will be challenged to keep a fridge cold, run a furnace , television and a few lights and last the night.

We also have a Dometic CU-434 upgraded gas stove with gas oven with the originalk microwave above the refrigerator. We gained more fridge interior space with the Freon based unit. We also have a propane only Truma instant on water heater.

Looks like Airsteam did another ready shoot then aim deal again.

PatLee · 08-04-2021, 09:58 AM

I don’t carry a generator so I think an electric-only frig is a huge drawback. How does it stay cold on the road or when dry camping? Plus propane cools it faster and keeps it colder. This option must have been created for campers who don’t want to go off grid. I wonder how this will affect resale value.

Dennis C · 08-04-2021, 10:09 AM

We boondock a fair amount, so we really like the gas oven. We have the traditional microwave over our fridge, and we rarely use it. I would love to have a bigger freezer, but I am not too keen on the compressor fridge.

missaviatrix · 08-04-2021, 10:42 AM

Does anyone not mind the fact that you must be a kneeling contortionist to light that poor excuse of a gas oven. Take a look at the video on the Airstream Life store site on learning how to light the oven. Very poor design. JMHO!

davidrrand · 08-04-2021, 02:54 PM

Would be nice to know what is driving AS to eliminate propane fridges. Our ‘16 25 FC rear bed has a good working AC/propane fridge, propane oven & optional convection microwave that has proven effective with shore power or boondocking. I doubt this new fridge has
much more space and the cost is less available options.
What’s next? The simple gas/electric water heater?

???

davidrrand · 08-04-2021, 02:55 PM

The oven is a pain to light as I get less flexible��

Ron Smith · 08-04-2021, 07:25 PM

I also received word from the dealer today that my 25' Flying Cloud RB Twin will not have a microwave unless I add the convection/microwave package. I'm thinking of sticking with the propane stove and buy a small microwave.

Any recommendations of a microware that draws less than 1000 watts so I can run it off inventor/batteries?

banderabob · 08-05-2021, 07:17 AM

Just a comment about the electric only fridge. Doesn’t make sense for keeping items cold during transit, or when parked without shore power.

PatLee · 08-05-2021, 08:01 AM

msaviatrix - if I still had my 2005 AS, I would totally agree with you i.e. having to kneel on floor and contorting to reach the back with a lighter and holding my breath way too long. And then repeating when the flame didn't catch. So it was with bated breath that I lit off the same model stove in my 2019 AS. I only had to bend at the waist with lighter in left hand, turn and push down oven knob with right and voila! flames raced forward on the rails. What a relief that I got an "easy" stove this time around. I use the oven all the time and every function of it, including the broiler (for toast) when dry camping.

uncle_bob · 08-05-2021, 09:11 AM

Hi

There are several threads about going from absorption to compressor fridges. Bottom line seems to be that they will not be making them anymore due to issues with the chemicals used. Factories will be shutting down in the next few years so no easy replacements.

The compressor fridges cool down *much* faster than an absorption fridge. No more fire it up the day before and *hope* it's cold the next day. Not going to miss that at all.

They also use way less energy. Take a look at what your absorption fridge pulls running on 120V .... yikes .....

Since the absorption unit is pretty big, you get more fridge in a given amount of trailer (or van) space. They also don't have the leveling or "burping" issues the absorption fridges ( burping = stops working for a while and then goes back to operation).

While running down the road, the charge lead on your 7 pin connector is plenty good enough to feed the fridge. That's no different than it feeding the 12V DC your absorption fridge uses.

AS is actually very late in the game as far as dropping the absorption units. Most brands made this transition several years ago. It's not quite clear why they are so far behind the pack in this regard.

As far as time running with no shore power / no solar just sitting, my 2017 Classic with stock batteries would not make it very long doing that and it's got an absorption fridge. It's hardly unique in that respect.

Bob

uraljohn · 08-05-2021, 01:06 PM

We have a 2019 FC 25 RBT with the gas oven and the upgraded convection oven/microwave over the fridge. If I had it my way we would drop the gas oven for the additional storage space and keep the convection oven/microwave. However, the Boss says she loves the gas oven! Soooo...gas oven it is.

She does use the gas oven quite a bit. We also use the microwave but have never used the convection oven feature.

Bottom line for me would be to forgo the gas oven and get the micro.

Is there a storage cupboard over the new style fridge in the 25' AS since the micro in that spot is gone?

PatLee · 08-06-2021, 07:54 AM

uncle_bob - thanks for the background on this change from absorption to all electric frigs. That is good news for our environmentally beleaguered world. I have three 90-watt Zamp panels on roof (2 AGM batteries) - how long do you think I could run the frig in a dry camping situation?