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Old 06-14-2020, 10:18 AM   #1
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2021 19' Bambi
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2021 water heater

Can someone help me better understand the new water heater on the 2021 Flying Cloud? Yeah or nay? Always on? Huh, thinking waste of propane?
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:09 AM   #2
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No, the design has been around for a long time. When the heater senses water flow over a certain amount the flame kicks on and heats fresh water going through the heat exchanger. Plus is that it is more energy efficient than a 6 gal tank of water heated to keep hot. A common problem has been that it will not heat at very low flow, which may or may not be a problem for some owners. Apparently no electric now means you cannot save propane by plugging into shorepower but it will not use propane until you demand hot water.
Larry
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:11 PM   #3
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It looks like a Girard 2GWHAM.. Lots of info to be found with google. Seems people are pretty happy with it in other trailers.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
No, the design has been around for a long time. When the heater senses water flow over a certain amount the flame kicks on and heats fresh water going through the heat exchanger. Plus is that it is more energy efficient than a 6 gal tank of water heated to keep hot. A common problem has been that it will not heat at very low flow, which may or may not be a problem for some owners. Apparently no electric now means you cannot save propane by plugging into shorepower but it will not use propane until you demand hot water.

Larry


Good info, thanks. So no electric option, itís propane on demand.?
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:12 PM   #5
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2021 water heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanguy;
Good info, thanks. So no electric option, itís propane on demand.?


Correct, no electric, propane on demand only.

It is a Girard water heater. You can tell by the 1985 control panel
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:55 PM   #6
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2021 water heater

Good video on hot to retrofit (remove Atwood, install Gerard).




These units run about $525.
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Old 06-15-2020, 04:27 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
. . .
. . . A common problem has been that it will not heat at very low flow, which may or may not be a problem for some owners.
. . .
Bingo!

. . . especially for folks boondocking and conserving water . . .

Not for everyone IMO.

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Old 06-15-2020, 04:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Bingo!

. . . especially for folks boondocking and conserving water . . .

Not for everyone IMO.

Yeah, one of the common complaints is by people who take "Navy" showers. When you turn off the water, or cut it to a dribble, while you soap down, the water in the piping cools down below where you had it set. Then when you turn the water back on, the flame has to do its thing. This does take a bit longer than drawing already hot water from a tank. Either you waste a bit more water or you get a shot of cooler water. I never did a study at home, but I don't think my on-demand has really saved me any fuel cost. One big plus for on-demand is endless hot water, but who cares about that in a travel trailer?
Larry
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
Yeah, one of the common complaints is by people who take "Navy" showers. When you turn off the water, or cut it to a dribble, while you soap down, the water in the piping cools down below where you had it set. Then when you turn the water back on, the flame has to do its thing. This does take a bit longer than drawing already hot water from a tank. Either you waste a bit more water or you get a shot of cooler water. I never did a study at home, but I don't think my on-demand has really saved me any fuel cost. One big plus for on-demand is endless hot water, but who cares about that in a travel trailer?
Larry
In theory, tankless water heaters are supposed to save money because they're not using fuel to keep a tankful of water up to temperature for hours on end when there's no demand. Practically speaking, they're great at home when you have a bigger family or members who take long, hot showers.

I'm not sure I understand the advangtage in an RV though. Unless I'm at a full hookup site, I'm more worried about conserving water in the fresh tank, or even more importantly, quickly filling my gray tank than I am about running out of hot water.

I like the dual fuel option in the current heaters too. If I'm already paying for electric at a campsite, I may as well use it and save my propane.

The tankless water heater kind of seems like an answer to a question no one asked. If we're looking for areas that could stand improvmenent, how about ditching lead acid batteries altogether, making AGMs standard, and getting lithium when you go solar? ;-)
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskuzman View Post
In theory, tankless water heaters are supposed to save money because they're not using fuel to keep a tankful of water up to temperature for hours on end when there's no demand. Practically speaking, they're great at home when you have a bigger family or members who take long, hot showers.

I'm not sure I understand the advangtage in an RV though. Unless I'm at a full hookup site, I'm more worried about conserving water in the fresh tank, or even more importantly, quickly filling my gray tank than I am about running out of hot water.

I like the dual fuel option in the current heaters too. If I'm already paying for electric at a campsite, I may as well use it and save my propane.

The tankless water heater kind of seems like an answer to a question no one asked. If we're looking for areas that could stand improvmenent, how about ditching lead acid batteries altogether, making AGMs standard, and getting lithium when you go solar? ;-)
My understanding is there will be a dealer installed option for lithium coming in late summer on the 2021 models. I assume this is why they made the charge controller to Victron and I'd guess that it's already equipped with a lithium compatible charger.
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Old 06-18-2020, 05:30 AM   #11
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FYI a new similar thread:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...er-209947.html

FYI
FWIW
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:40 PM   #12
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Agree

Itís horrible ,Iíd rather have our 6 gallon back. Itís a waste of water. Truma is the answer but Iím not wasting the $1200 to replace it with one under factory warranty. Service hinted Airsteam is catching flak on this and a circulation pump work around may be coming. Set it at 114 turn water on to full hot if you play
Navy shower your going to get bursts of cool water. My wife is Not Happy with this new unit. If your on city water at a park not traveling itís ok ✅

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
Yeah, one of the common complaints is by people who take "Navy" showers. When you turn off the water, or cut it to a dribble, while you soap down, the water in the piping cools down below where you had it set. Then when you turn the water back on, the flame has to do its thing. This does take a bit longer than drawing already hot water from a tank. Either you waste a bit more water or you get a shot of cooler water. I never did a study at home, but I don't think my on-demand has really saved me any fuel cost. One big plus for on-demand is endless hot water, but who cares about that in a travel trailer?
Larry
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Old 08-07-2021, 02:03 PM   #13
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My Email to Airstream on Girard

Hi Tyler (Porter, Mothership New Customer Rep) thanks for the welcome. Iím glad you contacted me.
This is our third Airstream and Iíve been surprised at the level of fit and finish. Several items in the trailer, including the stove exhaust fan doesnít work. There is a large gap where the screen door closes against the frame. My wife and I have cut ourselves on the sharp edges of the Formica tables and nightstands. Many places where the joints at the floor have large uneven gaps. I know that most of these items might be fixed by the dealer, but for us this many issues is surprising given our previous experience with Airstream.
Finally, I will finish with the questionable decision Airstream made to install the Girard tankless water heater. This has proven to be disastrous for us. We spent our first two weekends (4 days each) at campsites without sewer hook up. While the Girard operated as advertised, we found that practically it was useless for common chores like bathing and washing dishes. As you likely know, one of the major concerns with camping in this fashion or boondocking requires close management of grey and black tank capacity. My wife found that she could not manage dish washing in hot water. This was due to the required wasteful running of water for an extended time to reach hot. A Navy shower was impossible since turning off the water resulted in the stopping of water flow and thus a return to cold water. The pause flow of the shower head was insufficient to keep the water hot.
I also find it interesting that the dealership parts department has a prominent display of the Truma tankless water heater which apparently has a small tank and/or circulation pump to avoid the issues described above. I inquired as to the cost of replacing ours and was told ~ $3k. I am beyond pissed and am telling all my Airstream friends to avoid these models like the plague! BTW, the 6 gal water tank system of old worked fine!
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Old 08-07-2021, 03:46 PM   #14
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Tankless water heater

Count me in with the group that likes the regular, good old fashion dual fuel 6 gallon water heater. In a couple years we will be looking for a 30' FC RBT and for sure we will get one 2020 or older. No power awning either. Sometimes things are better when left alone.

What was that saying about not making changes just improvements. We say "No Tanks to the Tankless Water Heater".
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