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03-31-2017, 06:34 AM
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#1601
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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We need to remove the rear part of the dinette (at the bath wall), in order to replace the vacuum breaker anti-siphon valve in the black water tank rinse system, so your experience will be helpful to know. I did a little preliminary R&D last year, and it looks to me like removing a few screws at the top of the back of the dinette, and some inside the bottom into the floor, will do the job.
I think the screws used in assembly are really soft pot metal or aluminum, so it may be challenging to remove them with a screw gun, without stripping them. When I took the A/C shroud off last year, I had a similar problem, and used new screws of a harder black steel. Even SS screws are soft, especially when the angle of the screw gun has to be a bit off, due to the location of the screw.
Look forward to your report, and good luck!
Peter
PS -- FWIW -- not sure how easy it will be to remove the upholstery fabric from the hard surfaces, as it may be glued on with some kind of contact cement IMO, which can be a bear to remove all traces of, in order to put on new laminate. I would recommend starting, say, at the floor where the fabric is least visible, and see if you can get an edge removed, then work your way up. If the fabric does not come off easily, it will be simple to glue/cement the fabric back down out of sight.
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03-31-2017, 09:30 AM
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#1602
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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Hey guys...big springtime projects. Pics and tips please if you wouldn't mind.
Bob
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03-31-2017, 10:00 AM
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#1603
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Thanks for the suggestion Peter!
I'll take and post pics Bob!
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-01-2017, 11:38 AM
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#1604
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-01-2017, 11:43 AM
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#1605
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Next step is to remove all fabric and prep surfaces for laminate. We have a cabinet making division in our company so I'll trust the laminate work to them!
I'll post pics of the stripped dinette...
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-01-2017, 12:52 PM
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#1606
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Thanks for the photos! Pretty simple to remove, right? It would be tempting to replace the low point drain shut-offs with copper ball valves IMO, the kind that turn (only) 90 degrees to work, with the longer operating arms (assuming there is room for the arms to swing). Or, that center divider (in the forward seat) could be modified to permit easier access to the OEM valves, leaving just enough at the top to support the ply seat, and at the bottom to keep the front and back parallel. A generous access hole/port would help, although it would let stored items fall into the water heater space if one were not careful. A hinged access door perhaps? Hmmmm.
Good luck removing the fabric . . . hope I was wrong about the contact cement.
PS -- Do you have a black water flush system with the plastic vacuum breaker anti-siphon valve? I think maybe you don't have this system. This would be a good time to replace that valve with a brass one as needed.
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04-01-2017, 04:38 PM
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#1607
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Yes, the back flow prevention valve is part of our black water tank flush out system. Are you concerned with the valve failing? Haven't heard of this problem, but I haven't researched it...
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-01-2017, 06:49 PM
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#1608
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Yup, our dealer said the plastic ones are known to fail as ours did, so they shipped a new brass one under warranty. The dealer was too far away to justify a trip only for this. Plus they went out of business but that's another story!
See Post #2, and later posts, at this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...ns-143133.html
. . . and Post #381 here.
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04-01-2017, 06:57 PM
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#1609
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCwheels
Yes, the back flow prevention valve is part of our black water tank flush out system. Are you concerned with the valve failing? Haven't heard of this problem, but I haven't researched it...
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Darrell, since you asked, this from today's right side links
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...ml#post1930619
After reading of Peter's BW check valve failure story, I've spent much more time pushing air thru in the winterization proles. FWIW...IMO, I'd replace he cheap plastic one with brass if I had my dinette seat out.
Also now that you have the WH opened up I wold at a minimum take a look at the piping to make sure it is all downhill to the LP drains. Mine was uphill in a few areas and when they replaced the LP drains (I'll follow with the 20' link) I asked them to tweak the line to flow downhill. Winterization is now much easier.
Bob
p.s Note the newer LP drains are in top pic. They just a flip of the lever and much easier. Note too the drop down and out vs a thru valve.
b
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04-01-2017, 08:20 PM
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#1610
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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[QUOTE=TCwheels;1930473]Dinette removed!
TC if you wouldn't mine, one more favor? Can you take a picture from the fwd dinette seat looking back to show maybe the FW and BW flush connections etc. This would be very handy s a reference point.
thx and much apreciated
bob
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04-02-2017, 06:15 AM
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#1611
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Yes, that would be handy as a reference point. Thanks Darrell. [edit -- and see questions below please]
Bob, you saw the photo in Post #2 in the thread linked yesterday (in Post #1608 here) I assume? The yellow trim ring is around the city water feed.
I am thinking that we could remove the table/support at the wall, loosen up the rear dinette seat and slide it forward against the front seat, and have enough room to replace the vacuum breaker.
Darrell, how does this sound? Will there be enough room to work on the bath vanity plumbing without taking either dinette seat out of the trailer? By the way, did those seat units go through the main door OK? I assume so. Did you have to tip each one on its end, and pass the high back through the door first?
Just trying to understand the geometry here, as I am hoping that my plan [to leave the rear seat loose on the floor, and slide it forward] could be a one-person process.
Thanks,
Peter
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04-02-2017, 06:35 AM
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#1612
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Thanks guys! I'll look at replacing the check valve. I'll also check the low point drains for proper slope.
Bob - I'll try and get those pics. It might not be until the dinette is ready to go back in, but that will be this month as we hit the road again on the 29th!
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-02-2017, 06:55 AM
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#1613
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Peter - It will be just as easy to lift the rear dinette seat out and set it in the galley. That way you don't have to remove the table. I didn't remove mine, wasn't necessary. There is plenty of room to move if you do it that way. My seat needed to be lifted out - they're very light - given the "settled" nature of the fit b/t seat and all it's connection points.
They both fit through the door easily if you stand them on end and turn going through. Once again, they're very light and easy to maneuver.
BTW - ALL of the screws attaching the seat back to the bathroom wall were broken from over-torquing at the factory. Only the screw heads and the 1/4" in the seat back came out! Had to remove the remaining screw body from the wall with channel locks! That condition did not exist on the front seat back. Go figure!
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-02-2017, 07:50 AM
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#1614
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Rivet Master
2016 23' International
Centennial
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,684
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Wow! What a project....can't wait to see the changes. Thanks for posting all of this!
__________________
Steve "Centennial Man"
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04-02-2017, 08:01 AM
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#1615
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Thanks Darrell for the excellent suggestions. Yeah, that over-torquing and breaking of screws is consistent with the stripped heads I have found all over, including the A/C lower shroud last year. Poor QC at JC indeed.
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04-02-2017, 11:43 AM
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#1616
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Thanks Darrell for the excellent suggestions. Yeah, that over-torquing and breaking of screws is consistent with the stripped heads I have found all over, including the A/C lower shroud last year. Poor QC at JC indeed.
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Including my propane tank platform, 1 missing, 2 over torqued and one to hold things in place. Scary.
bob
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04-02-2017, 11:46 AM
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#1617
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Yes, that would be handy as a reference point. Thanks Darrell. [edit -- and see questions below please]
Bob, you saw the photo in Post #2 in the thread linked yesterday (in Post #1608 here) I assume? The yellow trim ring is around the city water feed.
Peter
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Peter seems we were thinking of the same thing about the same time except I saw the tease to the right and thought this is easier than going back for your thread on the CV which I was sure I had saved.
Bob
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04-02-2017, 11:51 AM
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#1618
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCwheels
Thanks guys! I'll look at replacing the check valve. I'll also check the low point drains for proper slope.
Bob - I'll try and get those pics. It might not be until the dinette is ready to go back in, but that will be this month as we hit the road again on the 29th!
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Darrell, thanks and obviously no rush. I'm not planning on replacing my BW/CV until I have to! I just that this too a good opportunity to educate my self on the hidden geography for the inevitbale time in the future.
Be well...happy spring. Sun today and mid 50's. I'll take it! Still bummed the Dux lost last night . What a run they had. We're all proud of them.
Bob
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04-10-2017, 12:49 PM
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#1619
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Traverse City
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 594
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Dinette seats are now being laminated and expect to have them back next week. I plan to sand and finish all the edges leaving them natural wood with a clear coat. I'll post pics.
BTW - With the location of the water heater and tank under the dinette, there is definitely room to convert the dinette to jackknife-type sofa or gaucho.
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
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04-10-2017, 05:48 PM
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#1620
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Glad the carpeting came off OK. Could you provide any details such as solvents needed, techniques, etc.? Thanks.
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