Hoping for trouble free Classic

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by Kyet

I am not going to even delve in the hubs here.... This is an area I had no knowledge of. Oh boy.
I wish you luck on your new 2018. I too had hoped I would be one of the lucky ones. When I ordered mine the thought was I was ordering essentially the 2017 with those bugs worked out. Fortunately those bugs (through all of the hard work of Forum members, owners, and eventually dealers) have been worked out but new designs in the 2018 have created new bugs. Predominately the Firefly and ALDE integration. Much of the other items on my list have been addressed. However there is still no fix for that.

I had awesome hot water for showering but no radiant heat. Others had the reverse. The trailer has spent most of the time I have owned it at the shop. Now having it back for a week with no fix available for the Firefly control unit I no longer have hot water for my shower either. Argggghhh. It will be good to get yours in cold weather as it was dead summer when I picked mine up and we did not properly test the heat. May I suggest you ask that either the ALDE control panel be located where it is in the 2017's (next to the Firefly panel, not under the sink) or that they not sell you a unit until the software has been worked out so that the Firefly and ALDE performs as they should.

Also, buy a tube of adhesive immediately for all of the things that fall off during everyday use. If I wasn't a full timer none of this would be a big deal to me at all.

I'm taking "Poppy" on her first onsite event this Friday for a week of work. This will be our first working gig in the new lifestyle and I'm rather excited. We missed a lunar eclipse festival in Oregon (I do festival/concert/large scale public events logistics) because Poppy was in the shop. It ended up being an absolute zoo so maybe it was a good thing. No parental house for warm showers though. Hmmm, maybe a pot of warm water in the shower old fashioned style. Dip my toes in while I'm showering with room temp water so I think it's warm!

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, Kyet. Based on the things I've been reading I'm going to send my dealer a checklist of items that they should check out to be sure they are working properly before I show up. If they aren't, don't bother calling me to pick up and pay for the trailer until they are!

[Zybane]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, Kyet. Based on the things I've been reading I'm going to send my dealer a checklist of items that they should check out to be sure they are working properly before I show up. If they aren't, don't bother calling me to pick up and pay for the trailer until they are!

I'm sorry that kinda made me laugh. Joe Shmoe in service that is going to "prep" your trailer by removing the travel wrap and kick the tires isn't going to even get that email from your salesman, yet do anything on the list that he normally doesn't do.

[Kyet]

Originally Posted by Zybane

I'm sorry that kinda made me laugh. Joe Shmoe in service that is going to "prep" your trailer by removing the travel wrap and kick the tires isn't going to even get that email from your salesman, yet do anything on the list that he normally doesn't do.

Hey, hopefully they won't remove all of the travel wrap! I literally look forward to the bits of plastic at each rivet (inside and out) that I get to pick off. I mean that. I only allow myself 1 every couple of days because I wan't the process to last forever. That way the trailer is always a little bit new.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by Zybane

I'm sorry that kinda made me laugh. Joe Shmoe in service that is going to "prep" your trailer by removing the travel wrap and kick the tires isn't going to even get that email from your salesman, yet do anything on the list that he normally doesn't do.

Glad I was able to provide you with a chuckle.

I figure it can go one of two ways. Either the dealership can risk a dissatisfied customer by conducting a walkthrough where they are unable to demonstrate that critical features of the trailer work, or they can make sure everything works ahead of time and insure the walkthrough goes smoothly. They provide me with a trailer that works, I write them a check, and everyone is happy.

At the very least, my dealer will know what my expectations are. I think that's a better approach than just assuming Joe Shmoe will drop the ball and resigning yourself to a negative outcome.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

With most dealers, the "walk through" is only done *after* the paperwork is complete. Until you buy it, there is no detail inspection. The bottom line is that, yes, they do want a happy customer. They also have another buyer in line for that trailer. There's just so much they will do before it gets past the point of "reasonable". They only have a finite margin in the sale. Warranty work done after the sale bills back to AS. Prep work ahead of the sale is on the dealers dime.

Bob

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

With most dealers, the "walk through" is only done *after* the paperwork is complete. Until you buy it, there is no detail inspection.

Bob

I'm not sure this is entirely true. Maybe for the dealer you used, but I spoke with 4 dealers, three in west, one in east, and all of them stated walk through occurred first, then later paper work and sign the deal.

The one I purchased from in Denver, that's how it was. I spent 4 hours running all systems etc, crawling through. They fixed the minor issues, and then we went inside and signed the deal.

I'm not sure I would ever sign for a camper/trailer before a good thorough inspection and walk through. If the dealer said money first, I would walk......

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

With most dealers, the "walk through" is only done *after* the paperwork is complete. Until you buy it, there is no detail inspection. The bottom line is that, yes, they do want a happy customer. They also have another buyer in line for that trailer. There's just so much they will do before it gets past the point of "reasonable". They only have a finite margin in the sale. Warranty work done after the sale bills back to AS. Prep work ahead of the sale is on the dealers dime.

Bob

Perhaps you've surveyed "most" dealers to determine their sales practices but my experience has been more in line with what Troutboy describes. The dealer was willing to spend as much time with us as we required. The only issue was that we were a bit overwhelmed during the purchase of our first TT, a 25' FC, and this time around I'm more prepared and knowledgeable about what questions to ask. Also, in our case, there isn't necessarily another buyer "in line" as we special ordered our Classic, although I'm sure one could be found.

I don't understand the rather defeatist attitude being expressed in some of the posts here as in, the dealer will do what they do, the procedure is the procedure, and the customer just has to accept it. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the seller of a high end product who advertises quality and service to live up to that standard. Everyone is served by having the customer lay out his or her expectations ahead of time and then give the seller an opportunity to meet them. I've done that with high end vehicles and other products and I'll do it with a $120K+ TT.

The point of the walk though, to my mind, is not only to show off the features of the trailer, but to demonstrate that they work. I intend to give my dealer fair warning that's what I expect when they introduce me to my new trailer. If you are willing to accept delivery of a product when you know ahead of time that it doesn't work properly, that's not just the dealer's fault, it's yours too.

Originally Posted by Troutboy

I'm not sure this is entirely true. Maybe for the dealer you used, but I spoke with 4 dealers, three in west, one in east, and all of them stated walk through occurred first, then later paper work and sign the deal.

The one I purchased from in Denver, that's how it was. I spent 4 hours running all systems etc, crawling through. They fixed the minor issues, and then we went inside and signed the deal.

I'm not sure I would ever sign for a camper/trailer before a good thorough inspection and walk through. If the dealer said money first, I would walk......

Agree.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

Perhaps you've surveyed "most" dealers to determine their sales practices but my experience has been more in line with what Troutboy describes. The dealer was willing to spend as much time with us as we required. The only issue was that we were a bit overwhelmed during the purchase of our first TT, a 25' FC, and this time around I'm more prepared and knowledgeable about what questions to ask. Also, in our case, there isn't necessarily another buyer "in line" as we special ordered our Classic, although I'm sure one could be found.

I don't understand the rather defeatist attitude being expressed in some of the posts here as in, the dealer will do what they do, the procedure is the procedure, and the customer just has to accept it. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the seller of a high end product who advertises quality and service to live up to that standard. Everyone is served by having the customer lay out his or her expectations ahead of time and then give the seller an opportunity to meet them. I've done that with high end vehicles and other products and I'll do it with a $120K+ TT.

The point of the walk though, to my mind, is not only to show off the features of the trailer, but to demonstrate that they work. I intend to give my dealer fair warning that's what I expect when they introduce me to my new trailer. If you are willing to accept delivery of a product when you know ahead of time that it doesn't work properly, that's not just the dealer's fault, it's yours too.



Agree.

Hi

If you find a dealer that is willing to pull all the wheels off the trailer to show you the brakes ahead of the sale .... get video.

Bob

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you find a dealer that is willing to pull all the wheels off the trailer to show you the brakes ahead of the sale .... get video.

Bob

I'm not particularly interested in having wheels pulled off to show me the brakes, so that video is going to have to wait for someone else to make a request.

However, I AM interested in being shown not just how the ALDE system theoretically works, but I want it to actually produce heat in my presence. I want all of the other systems related to Firefly demonstrated and working. I'd like them to show me that the shower can actually produce hot water and that the AC units can be activated and produce cold air. Plus, I'll see what else I can think of in the next couple of months before my trailer arrives. If you'd like a video of any of THAT, I'll see what I can do.

I don't expect this will resolve every potential issue that may ever crop up. But it's a start.

[Zybane]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

I'm not particularly interested in having wheels pulled off to show me the brakes, so that video is going to have to wait for someone else to make a request.

However, I AM interested in being shown not just how the ALDE system theoretically works, but I want it to actually produce heat in my presence. I want all of the other systems related to Firefly demonstrated and working. I'd like them to show me that the shower can actually produce hot water and that the AC units can be activated and produce cold air. Plus, I'll see what else I can think of in the next couple of months before my trailer arrives. If you'd like a video of any of THAT, I'll see what I can do.

I don't expect this will resolve every potential issue that may ever crop up. But it's a start.

I'm sure you have your own list, but make sure to check ALL outlets, ALL electronics and run the water and look at ALL Pex tubing and drains under cabinets. Mine came with faults in all of those areas.

[Troutboy]

I would also take a flashlight and close the door and check all around to see if light comes in. Have a person on outside shining light along door seem, have person inside while dark looking for light.

Each door is custom made, this was the only real issue on my 2017 23d

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

Great postings. Keep em coming everyone! I too just purchased an 18 classic.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Zybane

I'm sorry that kinda made me laugh. Joe Shmoe in service that is going to "prep" your trailer by removing the travel wrap and kick the tires isn't going to even get that email from your salesman, yet do anything on the list that he normally doesn't do.

I'd get a different dealer. I got to camp in my last one over the weekend at the dealer before picking it up. All the checks, and items corrected, were documented. Included wheel bolt torque, bearings, etc. Gonna do the same thing for the new one.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

With most dealers, the "walk through" is only done *after* the paperwork is complete. Until you buy it, there is no detail inspection. The bottom line is that, yes, they do want a happy customer. They also have another buyer in line for that trailer. There's just so much they will do before it gets past the point of "reasonable". They only have a finite margin in the sale. Warranty work done after the sale bills back to AS. Prep work ahead of the sale is on the dealers dime.

Bob

Our walk thru was good and prior to signing or paying, at three different AS dealers. Finite margin, despite what others post is spot on. As to dealer warranty reimbursement unless Airstream is more generous than other companies I've worked for and had the opportunity to run, warranty reimbursement for labor is fair but does not include "profit" for the dealer. Our warranty policy was set based on what our technicians could do a job for by the quarter hour. So, if Airstream dealers are reimbursed for warranty the same, they make no money on warranty work, they cover their expenses and that is about it. And yes prep work is part of the cost of sale and that time for a technician to go over anyone's new unit at the very least should be included in the cost of the new unit with profit not just covering overhead of the dealer.

Bud

[mojoe7009]

Originally Posted by paiceman

Our walk thru was good and prior to signing or paying, at three different AS dealers. Finite margin, despite what others post is spot on. As to dealer warranty reimbursement unless Airstream is more generous than other companies I've worked for and had the opportunity to run, warranty reimbursement for labor is fair but does not include "profit" for the dealer. Our warranty policy was set based on what our technicians could do a job for by the quarter hour. So, if Airstream dealers are reimbursed for warranty the same, they make no money on warranty work, they cover their expenses and that is about it. And yes prep work is part of the cost of sale and that time for a technician to go over anyone's new unit at the very least should be included in the cost of the new unit with profit not just covering overhead of the dealer.



Bud

As a retired car dealer I can definitively tell you the auto manufacturers pay warranty labor rate per hour at the same rate as the dealer’s retail labor rate. The dealer only has time to sell in the service department. If the manufacturers didn’t pay “retail” there would zero motivation to take of their mutual customer while in warranty. It’s been paid that way for years. Our warranty work was always profitable. I have no clue if the RV industry is the same, but after reviewing what Airstream paid a dealer to re-plumb our entire Alde system I suspect Airstream pays retail for warranty work as well.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

I'm not particularly interested in having wheels pulled off to show me the brakes, so that video is going to have to wait for someone else to make a request.

.....

Hi

Except that *is* what was being suggested as part of the "must do" list. If you walk into a dealer with a 25 page list of inspection items, I believe you will get pushback. The "show me how this works" stuff, of course not. That's part of the standard package.

Bob

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Except that *is* what was being suggested as part of the "must do" list. If you walk into a dealer with a 25 page list of inspection items, I believe you will get pushback. The "show me how this works" stuff, of course not. That's part of the standard package.

Bob

I appreciate the thought but I've no intention of walking in with a multi-page check list. OTOH, I not only want to be shown how stuff works, as in "you push this button to turn that on", but prove to me that it DOES work. This is a step beyond what I asked for in my first AS walkthough, but I like to think I now know better.

I certainly don't think this is being unfair to the dealership. If there's something wrong they will be dealing with it one way or another anyway. Better for everyone if significant problems are discovered before I tow the thing off the lot.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by mojoe7009

As a retired car dealer I can definitively tell you the auto manufacturers pay warranty labor rate per hour at the same rate as the dealer’s retail labor rate. The dealer only has time to sell in the service department. If the manufacturers didn’t pay “retail” there would zero motivation to take of their mutual customer while in warranty. It’s been paid that way for years. Our warranty work was always profitable. I have no clue if the RV industry is the same, but after reviewing what Airstream paid a dealer to re-plumb our entire Alde system I suspect Airstream pays retail for warranty work as well.

I just checked after reading your post as I know car dealers are paid the way you said, our dealers were not when I was GM there. NOW they are paid at their retail rate for work done by the dealers of the product we manufactured and sold, so dealers are now a bit more motivated to do the warranty work and be dealers. Plus while I was there we initiated a dealer annual review process which would pay a bonus on units sold etc if other items were met.

Bud

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by mojoe7009

As a retired car dealer I can definitively tell you the auto manufacturers pay warranty labor rate per hour at the same rate as the dealer’s retail labor rate. The dealer only has time to sell in the service department. If the manufacturers didn’t pay “retail” there would zero motivation to take of their mutual customer while in warranty. It’s been paid that way for years. Our warranty work was always profitable. I have no clue if the RV industry is the same, but after reviewing what Airstream paid a dealer to re-plumb our entire Alde system I suspect Airstream pays retail for warranty work as well.

Auto dealers don't pay the same rate for warranty work.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Auto dealers don't pay the same rate for warranty work.

Actually, it varies by state. Some are at retail rate and some are less. Regardless, warranty work is profitable with a well trained tech force. The warranty labor time guide is often where the rub comes into play.