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Old 07-21-2019, 05:25 AM   #61
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Hi

Lets back up a little here. If the trailer is fully / tightly sealed to the outside, what happens when you turn on the stove vent? Nothing, other than you burn out the motor. Same thing with the shower vent or bath vent. There *has* to be some way for air to get into the trailer with the windows shut. Otherwise the ventilation will not work.

The air flow needs to be good enough that you don't suck air backwards through the black and gray tanks as your prime source of air coming in. Yes, that can be an iffy thing in some cases. The fact that it can get iffy suggests they may not have *enough* air into the trailer.

You can't bring the air in through the roof, rain would come in the vent. Same problem with the walls. Think about running down the road and the kind of wind involved there. The only practical way to get air in is from below.

Next up is the ... errr .... plywood floor. You do not want it to get soggy from condensation and stay that way. Again, you need something moving down there to dry out the area. Floor rot is *not* something you want to have happen.

If you are going to block stuff, do it with screening that will let air through. You do not want to seal the thing up tight.

Bob
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:17 AM   #62
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I agree with you that if the trailer is too "tight", moisture has nowhere to go. Opening the shower vent and also the bathroom vent would be plenty. Ours are always open except for travel.

With our connect system (and solar), we have the luxury of doing the above and also run the fantastic fan for a few hours each day when we are not using it. The trailer temp inside my trailer at JC (in for warranty work) reached 100 degrees while waiting to be brought into the service bay. I just ran the fan during the day to cool it off.

It's fun to watch if work is being done on the trailer. They have it in a bay right now, plugged in. Everything is off (battery disconnect). Last Friday they had both air conditioners on, well they thought. The front was set to AC and rear was set to heat pump. I corrected it for them!

And no, they were not testing the heat pump. It was set to 65 degrees. They were trying to lower the temperature.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:45 AM   #63
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. . .
It's fun to watch if work is being done on the trailer. They have it in a bay right now, plugged in. Everything is off (battery disconnect). Last Friday they had both air conditioners on, well they thought. The front was set to AC and rear was set to heat pump. I corrected it for them!

And no, they were not testing the heat pump. It was set to 65 degrees. They were trying to lower the temperature.


Not exactly a "ringing endorsement" of the QC at Jackson Center! [IMO]

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Old 07-21-2019, 08:19 AM   #64
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Not exactly a "ringing endorsement" of the QC at Jackson Center! [IMO]

The Czone panel requires a "cycling" push. Once for the fan. Once for AC. Once for heat. It's easy to make a mistake and heat up the trailer when its 90 degrees out!
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

Lets back up a little here. If the trailer is fully / tightly sealed to the outside, what happens when you turn on the stove vent? Nothing, other than you burn out the motor. Same thing with the shower vent or bath vent. There *has* to be some way for air to get into the trailer with the windows shut. Otherwise the ventilation will not work.

The air flow needs to be good enough that you don't suck air backwards through the black and gray tanks as your prime source of air coming in. Yes, that can be an iffy thing in some cases. The fact that it can get iffy suggests they may not have *enough* air into the trailer.

You can't bring the air in through the roof, rain would come in the vent. Same problem with the walls. Think about running down the road and the kind of wind involved there. The only practical way to get air in is from below.

Next up is the ... errr .... plywood floor. You do not want it to get soggy from condensation and stay that way. Again, you need something moving down there to dry out the area. Floor rot is *not* something you want to have happen.

If you are going to block stuff, do it with screening that will let air through. You do not want to seal the thing up tight.

Bob


Dead on. The if Airstreams were sealed up tight they would be like the "sick" buildings we used to read about that were made so impervious to air infiltration that they became stale and musty.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:21 AM   #66
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One of my new owner mistakes. I have one AC that stays on Cool between trips and one that defaults to Heat. I couldn't understand after about hour the temp still in the high 70's till I realized that I had one on heat and one on cool. I had the heat pump set for 72 so never came on but wasn't colling either.



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The Czone panel requires a "cycling" push. Once for the fan. Once for AC. Once for heat. It's easy to make a mistake and heat up the trailer when its 90 degrees out!
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:24 AM   #67
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Aaaaahhhh, I see. So there's a hole in the plywood floor, which is not an issue by itself...of course there penetrations through the plywood floor in all our trailers to accommodate plumbing, electrical, heating. But a big gap in the belly covering, as shown in the pics posted by the OP in post #1 and post #44 from the outside, that allows one to see grass through the plumbing hole, from the INSIDE of the trailer...is actually a well thought-out design feature to allow the trailer to 'breathe', and prevent the stove vent fan motor from burning out?

BAHAHAHAHAHA. That one 'jumps the shark' even in the realm of Airstream Defenders.

When I want to turn on the stove vent or fantastic fan, if the windows are closed due to cooler weather, I crack a window, open the bath vent, open other fantastic fan lid, etc. Obviously.

Of course the belly pan will not be "air-tight." But being able to SEE the lawn or the road through a hole in the interior floor is not acceptable. Give me a break. Something was missed during manufacture of that trailer...a 'short' piece of aluminum that an installer put on anyway, or whatever. The pics speak for themselves.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:41 AM   #68
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Maybe a thief cut that outside hole in the belly pan? Airstream does no wrong . . .

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Old 07-21-2019, 10:11 AM   #69
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Maybe a thief cut that outside hole in the belly pan? Airstream does no wrong . . .



Actually, the opening is pretty much meaningless in a practical sense, except that it illustrates that no matter what people will find something to complain about. If it wasn't that gap, it would be something else.

There, I said it.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:31 AM   #70
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The gap we are seeing in the area where the water hose hooks up to the AS. That area is damp and easy access for mice and mice can do a lot of damage. I going to do my best to seal up that area and put a reminder to check that monthly for signs of mice. The inside I just going to use some copper mesh and cover the holes so it can still breath but hopefully, it blocks the mice.

Our motor home the wife pulled out a blanket for a cool night and found a nest with baby mice still in it. We search for entry points and even put some bright lights in the coach and check for light on the outside at night. We never did. find where the mice were getting in at. Any likely entrance for mice I find I will take some sort of corrective action.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:38 AM   #71
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Actually, the opening is pretty much meaningless in a practical sense, except that it illustrates that no matter what people will find something to complain about. If it wasn't that gap, it would be something else.

There, I said it.
So if there was a tear on the 'bottom' side of a mattress or seat cushions--meaningless in a practical sense, and therefore acceptable? A gouge on the 'backside' of a closet door, acceptable?

How anyone can defend a 12 inch by 1 inch 'mistake' in the bottom of the trailer, that allows one to see right through to the ground FROM THE INSIDE, while inviting all manner of critters aboard to nest throughout the belly, store their food away there, and raise their families...but can't be seen because hidden by a panel, is beyond me. Yes, I know industrious mice could still manage to possibly find their way in through various small gaps, but why make it an open invitation? I've gone over mine from stem to stern and I can find no gaps that a mouse could fit through...all seams are tightly fit and/or well-sealed. That opening is beyond the pale. And, what's the point of a 'heated' belly pan...if there is a basically a vent opening, right below two plumbing lines? That make a lot of sense if caught in winter weather. I have traveled in 15 below F temps with the furnace on, with no plumbing freeze issues. I'm doubtful that would be the case on this particular trailer.

Calling out such an obvious flaw in care or craftsmanship is something to unreasonably 'complain' about? Okey Doke!
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:18 AM   #72
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I thank the "The Naker" and others on this thread for finding this flaw and pointing it out. I probably would have never found it on my own and just maybe it saved me damage from mice. Believe me that my DW sends her thanks also.
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:54 PM   #73
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Holes in the floor of my 2019 Classic 33

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So if there was a tear on the 'bottom' side of a mattress or seat cushions--meaningless in a practical sense, and therefore acceptable? A gouge on the 'backside' of a closet door, acceptable?

How anyone can defend a 12 inch by 1 inch 'mistake' in the bottom of the trailer, that allows one to see right through to the ground FROM THE INSIDE, while inviting all manner of critters aboard to nest throughout the belly, store their food away there, and raise their families...but can't be seen because hidden by a panel, is beyond me. Yes, I know industrious mice could still manage to possibly find their way in through various small gaps, but why make it an open invitation? I've gone over mine from stem to stern and I can find no gaps that a mouse could fit through...all seams are tightly fit and/or well-sealed. That opening is beyond the pale. And, what's the point of a 'heated' belly pan...if there is a basically a vent opening, right below two plumbing lines? That make a lot of sense if caught in winter weather. I have traveled in 15 below F temps with the furnace on, with no plumbing freeze issues. I'm doubtful that would be the case on this particular trailer.

Calling out such an obvious flaw in care or craftsmanship is something to unreasonably 'complain' about? Okey Doke!


Heres my point, if that gap bothers a person, he should invest in a roll of the aluminum duct tape, (the heavy foil stuff), cut a 12" strip, take five minutes and seal the gap.

Somebody screwed up a little bit somewhere along the assembly line, it happens.

No matter what anyone says, it's a very small issue, yet there are some folks who see it as an Airstream armageddon.

Perhaps scale of offense should play a role in assessing the catastrophe.

Look, I can understand how the owner of the trailer might have posted about this, although I wouldn't have, but it's almost amusing to watch posters pile on as if a small gap in the belly pan is the end of the world.

That's my honest view of the matter, anyone who doesn't like it,, well too bad, I don't care.

OH, Has anyone considered that this "flaw" might be a feature that might allow water to escape the belly pan in the event of a major flood event? I mean it is pretty close to the main water entry point isn't it?

(The more I look at the photo, the more it looks to me like the hole was made intentionally)

Honestly, if I was going to complain about anything, it wouldn't be the gap in the belly pan, it would be the plastic PEX elbows that were used instead of brass. I don't get that, but that's just me though.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:34 PM   #74
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I thank the "The Naker" and others on this thread for finding this flaw and pointing it out. I probably would have never found it on my own and just maybe it saved me damage from mice. Believe me that my DW sends her thanks also.
Did you have the same gap on yours? I was hoping to hear that Naker's was a one-off due to an incorrectly sized piece of sheet metal or something that was ignored at assembly.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:28 PM   #75
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Did you have the same gap on yours? I was hoping to hear that Naker's was a one-off due to an incorrectly sized piece of sheet metal or something that was ignored at assembly.

Look at my post number 47 and you will where I seeing the light from. That worries me since this would prime location for mice or what every to enter the AS and in to the kitchen cabinets.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:36 PM   #76
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I thank the "The Naker" and others on this thread for finding this flaw and pointing it out. I probably would have never found it on my own and just maybe it saved me damage from mice. Believe me that my DW sends her thanks also.
I'm glad my post helped someone else fix a potential area for rodent infiltration. None of my posts were about complaining. I posted for two reasons: 1) to help inform other Classic 33 owners about an area to check and 2) to see if anyone else had seen areas like this that I should check. To me, that is the whole point of these forums. To share useful information.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:48 PM   #77
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Agreed! That is the point of these forums.

Can you imagine learning this stuff on your own?
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:20 AM   #78
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Yes thatís all true. Thatís why a drop out vent https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=z...26_sacat%253D0
was invented to go through the floor of the trailer to BOTH allow for any LPG leaks to escape since it is heavier than air, and to allow for fresh air to enter, leaving no room for rodents to enter.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:15 AM   #79
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I agree with you that if the trailer is too "tight", moisture has nowhere to go. Opening the shower vent and also the bathroom vent would be plenty. Ours are always open except for travel.

.....
Hi

If it rains with the bathroom vent open ... you can get a puddle right at the base of the toilet. I have data on this .....

Same issue with the shower vent and storing stuff in the shower. We keep the dirty laundry there when the shower is not in use.

Bob
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:49 PM   #80
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Aaaaahhhh, I see. So there's a hole in the plywood floor, which is not an issue by itself...of course there penetrations through the plywood floor in all our trailers to accommodate plumbing, electrical, heating. But a big gap in the belly covering, as shown in the pics posted by the OP in post #1 and post #44 from the outside, that allows one to see grass through the plumbing hole, from the INSIDE of the trailer...is actually a well thought-out design feature to allow the trailer to 'breathe', and prevent the stove vent fan motor from burning out?

BAHAHAHAHAHA. That one 'jumps the shark' even in the realm of Airstream Defenders.

When I want to turn on the stove vent or fantastic fan, if the windows are closed due to cooler weather, I crack a window, open the bath vent, open other fantastic fan lid, etc. Obviously.

Of course the belly pan will not be "air-tight." But being able to SEE the lawn or the road through a hole in the interior floor is not acceptable. Give me a break. Something was missed during manufacture of that trailer...a 'short' piece of aluminum that an installer put on anyway, or whatever. The pics speak for themselves.
lol I was thinking the same thing. Having huge holes in your floor and belly pan is a feature!

When Airstream didn't screw my dinette bench to the floor, it was so that I can easily move it around. What a nice FEATURE!

When Airstream didn't connect two of my electrical outlets, it was a feature to make sure that I don't draw too much power!

LOL some posts on this forum are hilarious.
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