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Old 12-14-2018, 12:03 PM   #41
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A child of 5 or 6 is way past old enough to know not to do something like that.
No, 5 year old kids aren’t. Not all six year olds are either. Parents may have them scared to death, but fear does not equal knowledge, and that means sometimes their desires will overcome their fear. This child may have been bored, or he may have been inspired; we don’t know what happened because we haven’t been given enough information. Perhaps the child is developmentally delayed, maybe he is on the Autism Spectrum.

I am certain we all drew on a wall with crayons at some point. As older children and teens who actually DID know better, is there ANYONE here who didn’t write on a bathroom wall or in wet cement; carve their initials into a tree, written on a school desk, doodled in a schoolbook? Walked off of a trail where signs said not to do so? Taken a trail souvenir such as a rock, fossil, arrowhead, or pottery shard? Were our parents lousy? Were they not strict enough? Were they lazy? Are we common criminals? (you don’t want to know that answer)

Adults are worse. We all STILL occasionally break rules and laws AND we DO know better. We understand the laws and rules, AND we know the consequences, still we go on breaking them. We drive over the speed limit, drink too much, steal office supplies, call in sick to work and then go to the beach. We don’t all color within the lines every day, do we? Before you set about measuring sins against one another, remember God sees them as all one size.

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I suspect that this child has had other “mishaps”. Later in life when Little Johnny picks up a knife and carves his name in his girlfriends back, will insurance cover it?
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Parents these days are way to easy on kids.
“Good kids are forged just like good steel!”
Are you telling me that you beat your children AFTER pulling them out of the fire? Woww. And here I thought I was an abused child. My parental units skipped the fire part.

People, the child is 5, he wasn’t being malicious, and is highly unlikely to grow up to be a serial killer. Do you know what kinds of kids CAN grow up to be serial killers? Those who were thwarted from having a childhood, and who were regularly beaten for doing things normal to children of their age.

I can’t believe how many people still call for the beating of a child, arse whoopin, spankings, etc. Being a good parent does not equal beating your child. It was because I and my brother were beaten with leather belts and wooden paddles that had holes drilled into them in order to effect a lack of air resistance, that I set rules for myself in order never to abuse my children. You can’t imagine how scared I was of perpetuating the abuse.
1. NEVER swat when angry, take timeout.
2. Never more than 1 single swat.
3. Only 1 swat, only on the butt.
Use other forms of discipline first.
4. Never swat past the age of 9/10yrs, it’s pointless. If I haven’t gotten all their major lessons in by then, it’s my fault not theirs. All the swat does after that age is create a very angry, rebellious child/teen and possibly adult. If they live through their rebellion.

Were the parents remiss in their supervision? Certainly. Will all the perfect parents here please raise their hands. Everyone with perfect children, keep your hands up. Yeah, not me either.

Beatings, or it’s nicer “sounding” version, spankings, are about anger and power. If our children only behave because of their fear of us, we haven’t taught them anything. As a Grandma who took care of her 3 year old granddaughter for a over a year, I never used swats at all to encourage her to choose to do the right thing. Love made her want to please me, and when she realized she had disappointed me, she found it crushing. She wasn’t perfect anymore more than her mommy or her uncles were, childhood IS a learning process after all. Natural consequences followed her actions. She drew on my fridge, she scrubbed my fridge. She made a mess, she cleaned the mess, she ripped a book page, she wasn’t read to for a day. Of course the child in question cannot fix scratches on a painted vehicle bumper. A parent would have to be very creative with Natural Consequences in this case. But it can be done right along with an age appropriate length of explanation on why we don’t write or draw on things other than paper.

As to what the dealer should do, that is his call. If I were a parent with enough money to spend on a new Airstream I would definitely offer to cover the damage in some fashion. Whether it was credit card, check, insurance, or if it was the model I had in mind, purchase of the vehicle. I would not force my child to pay me back for a young child’s mistake. If, however, my child were aged 10 or older and not impaired in any way, then yes, that would be an age appropriate natural consequence. I would split the bill in some fashion for my own lack in supervision; I always admit my mistakes to my children and apologize. It’s how they learned to admit their own mistakes. As an admitted perfectionist I constantly reminded myself and my children, “There is a reason that Pencils have an eraser at one end, NO ONE is perfect.

Ok, getting off the soapbox.

p.s. My fairly great kids grew up into fairly great adults, in other words, Normal to Great. It’s because I was a normal to sometimes great parent depending on the day, mood, or circumstance. My children love me despite my mistakes.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:31 PM   #42
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Weíre going to have to agree to disagree as to whether a 5 or 6 year old, per the OP, should reasonably know not to pick up a rock and take it to drawing on a vehicle.

If he had developmental delays, or was just generally ill behaved, all the more reason a parent should have had his hand and prevented opportunity then damage.

Weíre all giving our supposedly informed opinions on this, we donít have to agree, but presumably a parent would know a childís limits and abilities and act accordingly in supervising their child.


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Old 12-14-2018, 12:58 PM   #43
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Thanks for sharing your views. Iím more on the parentsí responsibility here than the kid....

How did this get resolved OP??
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Old 12-14-2018, 05:24 PM   #44
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Here is an article on the Legal Responsibility of Parents for their child's actions. This is from Quebec, so obviously the technical details of the law will be different than what most of you will find in your jurisdictions, but it makes for interesting reading. Some may be surprised at the level of responsibility that parents have under Quebec law right up until the child turns 18.

One thing from this article that I noted was:
"To be held responsible for their actions, minors must be able to reason and tell the difference between right and wrong. Children are usually able to do this around age seven. But judges look at each case individually."

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsul...bility-parents

Ontario law is similar and can be read here.
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Old 12-15-2018, 10:57 AM   #45
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There should be NO insurance claim here at all by anyone. The police should have been called and charges brought against the non child training parents for willful destruction of personal property. See you in court, end of problem. In court I would demand 100% restitution for damages and lost time. Once that's over NO insurance co. is going to loose anything because you have an idiot for a kid.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:50 AM   #46
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Wow tough crowd. I’m sure most of us have made mistakes, especially as kids. This is why we have insurance so when other people break our stuff we still have coverage.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:14 PM   #47
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There should be NO insurance claim here at all by anyone. The police should have been called and charges brought against the non child training parents for willful destruction of personal property. See you in court, end of problem. In court I would demand 100% restitution for damages and lost time. Once that's over NO insurance co. is going to loose anything because you have an idiot for a kid.
It would be interesting to hear from someone in law enforcement as to how they would respond to a call such as this. Personally I wouldn't want the police whose job it is to protect us to be pulled away from more important work for an incident such as this.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:17 PM   #48
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There should be NO insurance claim here at all by anyone. The police should have been called and charges brought against the non child training parents for willful destruction of personal property. See you in court, end of problem. In court I would demand 100% restitution for damages and lost time. Once that's over NO insurance co. is going to loose anything because you have an idiot for a kid.


I couldnít disagree more! This is EXACTLY why one carries liability insurance. Life happens. Mistakes happen. 5 year olds do stupid things out of the sight of parents - even strict disciplinarian parental units. It happens. No one *wants* to use insurance, but you have it so you donít have to bear large losses alone.

I would hope the dealer holds the parents responsible and they either write a check (absorbing the loss directly) or - if they canít afford to do that, they use their insurance to cover their liability.

Iím just repeating myself at this point. Iíll stop now....
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #49
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I donít know the parents, but Iím guessing they had a pretty crappy day. As did the kid and maybe the dealer.

Itís one thing to rubberneck and comment on an an incident like this, but itís amazing how such little information can result in so much judgement of the character of those involved. I find it sad to see such a lack of compassion and folks so quick to condemn ďkids these daysĒ and parenting skills.

Such is an Internet forum, I suppose. Donít know why I thought this place would be different.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:32 PM   #50
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75 Bob really, you must be joking or tongue in cheek.

Calling the police and prosecuting a 5 yr old for drawing with a rock. I'm going to think you didn't read the whole thread otherwise I just don't know what to think.

Poor kid, poor parents, poor salesman I feel for all of them. This is what insurance is for. They could be great parents, he could be a great kid who just made a five-year-old mistake.

Yes they should have been watching him better, all of them.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:22 PM   #51
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If it were my dealership, I would invite the folks into my office and describe the problem of selling a damaged and expensive unit. Then I would say that I will report this to our insurance company and request that the family provide their information, just as if it were an accident on the highway. If the family refuses to provide their information, then the next action would be to call the police and report an accident and request an official report.

Then let matters follow the normal course.

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:25 AM   #52
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It would be interesting to hear from someone in law enforcement as to how they would respond to a call such as this. Personally I wouldn't want the police whose job it is to protect us to be pulled away from more important work for an incident such as this.
Protecting peopleís property is part of the job, just like if a neighbor kid enters my property and does damage, or speeds through the neighborhood. I would respond to it just like any other call.

Amazing that the word ďinsuranceĒ is the first thing off peopleís lips in a case like this. If this happened with my kids (trust me, it NEVER did) my Amex would be out before any authority was called or insurance company was involved. People who run to their insurance for every little thing are going to get a big surprise. The database is forever.

And when my kids were tiny, the best defense was not taking them every darned place we went. Get a sitter for crying out loud. I donít understand tiny kids running back and forth in bars, restaurants and car dealerships. Itís an accident waiting to happen.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:22 AM   #53
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Umbrella Policy

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Originally Posted by GeeSag View Post
Does Homeowners Insurance typically cover this type damage?
Does Homeowners normally cover damage to property off property?
Is one takeway for all of us on this forum: Would an Umbrella Policy provide protection for the parents?
In other words since we all use this forum for learning, is this a case for the benefits of an Umbrella Policy?
I understand an umbrella policy protects you if your ďnormalĒ insurance (house, auto, etc) does not cover the issue. Example if you had $250k auto, hit someone and they sued you for $1million. Your auto folks will send their #1 lawyer to work the suit and depending on outcome, you may not have to sell your house if you only had an umbrella which would not cover if you lost.

Dealer could get a estimate, tell parents letís settle it in office, want to still sell them a unit. If they walk out you fix the policy for letting kids with parents tear your products up. We live in an age where parents want to be ďfriendsĒ with their children and not provide guidance or discipline necessary to become adults.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:25 AM   #54
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I just want to say, for those concerned about judgement of the child’s behavior and/or parental responsibilities in this situation (or lack thereof)...

This is not church, nor a therapy session, but a public forum where the observations of the uninvolved OP were posted...presumably for others to comment and weigh in on, via their opinions and perspective.

It’s what is done on public forums like this.

None of us have any deciding factor, we’re just stating what we think, and there ain’t nothin’ wrong with that, in my humble opinion.

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Old 12-16-2018, 10:50 AM   #55
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The Police will not respond to an incident such as this as this incident occurred on Private Property, this incident was not criminal and there was no personal injury involved!
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:57 AM   #56
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Estimate of $2500.


Put it on plastic. Apologize for not keeping an eye on my kid. Or write a check, but I don't carry checks around with me.



I don't know what to say if the dealership then has to sell unit as used because it has been repaired.


It might be similar to hail damaged vehicles, vehicle is sold with hail damage but the damage is then fixed once sold so that the customer saw the damage and no one can say the dealership is trying to hide things.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:42 AM   #57
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Easy solution . . .

Ask the "parents" to purchase the trailer at a discounted price. No, don't get angry . . . Yes, this "answer" is Scriptural. The parents get their brand new trailer and the dealer makes out as well.

The kid: well that is a parental issue. Myself: I would keep the trailer as is, then give it to the child as a wedding present years down the road. What a joy to take on our adventures!


If the parents disagree to a fair deal - they never intended to buy a trailer anyway and should not have been on the lot. Handle accordingly . . .
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:47 AM   #58
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I go with the "you broke it, you buy it" school of thought. I'm really tired of these parents that don't supervise their offspring and take responsibility for their actions. Enough already!
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Old 12-16-2018, 12:14 PM   #59
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My home owner insurance would likely cover damage that a child of mine did that under liability (?). Donít know that for sure so donít be too hard on me if not right info ...
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #60
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Didn't catch if the parents were looking for a 33' Classic in the first place, or some other model nearby?...I think they should be liable, but this happened in California, right- could just end up with CA creating a new tax to cover this type of accident??
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