Battery replacement help!

[Presitla99]

2019 classic with factory solar. Original batteries going downhill fast. Get an error message after a few minutes off shore power. Would like to replace with AGM's. Can I merely swap them out it or does the solar controller or anything else need reprogramming? Thanks in advance.

[Presitla99]

[Presitla99]

I just checked and find I have Lifeline AMG batteries. 3 years old this September. Wonder if I have some other component problem causing the error message.

[Froglips]

Hi,
I have the same model you do. I have gotten the same warning message since the trailer was new. The dealer can't find any issue. There is nothing wrong with your batteries. Put a voltmeter on them and you will find they are at nominally proper levels.
The issue is the smart system that regularly pulls incorrect info. If you add a BlueTooth dongle to the Victron solar regulator you can pull up the battery voltage on your phone when the error comes in and see that it is OK.
Solution? The only one I have found is to flip the battery disconnect under the closet and let the "Smart CZone" system reboot. The warning has always disappeared after a reboot for me.

[Presitla99]

Good advice Froglips. I have the Vectron dongle set up and will check next time.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you *do* replace the batteries, AGM are not a great "bang for the buck" answer at this point. The two real choices are to go with "whatever Costco has on sale" (assuming it's a deep cycle RV battery) or to up grade to (possibly low end) lithiums. We are at the point now that decent AGM's (the only kind you would want to buy) are near same /same as low cost Lithiums. Depending on how you do this or that and what is or isn't on sale, the lithium conversion may cost less than dropping in AGM's.

Bob

[Presitla99]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you *do* replace the batteries, AGM are not a great "bang for the buck" answer at this point. The two real choices are to go with "whatever Costco has on sale" (assuming it's a deep cycle RV battery) or to up grade to (possibly low end) lithiums. We are at the point now that decent AGM's (the only kind you would want to buy) are near same /same as low cost Lithiums. Depending on how you do this or that and what is or isn't on sale, the lithium conversion may cost less than dropping in AGM's.

Bob

Bob:

Here is the latest/strangest. I spent 5 days on 50 amp while camping. Batteries charged up full to 14.5 v. Drove home, plugged in to 30 amp receptacle and batteries now down to 11.5 v. Any thoughts?

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you *do* replace the batteries, AGM are not a great "bang for the buck" answer at this point. The two real choices are to go with "whatever Costco has on sale" (assuming it's a deep cycle RV battery) or to up grade to (possibly low end) lithiums. We are at the point now that decent AGM's (the only kind you would want to buy) are near same /same as low cost Lithiums. Depending on how you do this or that and what is or isn't on sale, the lithium conversion may cost less than dropping in AGM's.

Bob

I agree. If replacing with just deep cycle, the Costco route is probably the way to go. On the other hand, low-end lithiums may not necessarily be the way to go. I have been looking at the various lithium brands for over a year. The low-end ones have cheaper components, (BMS, balancing leads, lithium cells, etc) and component assembly not done very well. All this can lead to early failure of these low-end lithiums, but just beyond the point of the much shorter warranties than higher end lithiums. This may cause you to spend more in the longrun, not less.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Presitla99

Bob:

Here is the latest/strangest. I spent 5 days on 50 amp while camping. Batteries charged up full to 14.5 v. Drove home, plugged in to 30 amp receptacle and batteries now down to 11.5 v. Any thoughts?

Hi

Just noticed (again) the "factory solar" in the original post. Factory solar includes AGM batteries. You *should* already have AGM's.

How long did you hang in at 14.5? You need to be above 13V for about 4 to 8 hours to get a full charge on lead acid's of any sort.

Running down the road you should be pulling about 3A or so. The charge wire from your TV (if it's working ... many aren't) should keep up with this on lead acid's. If it doesn't and the drive was < 6 hours, you only pulled 18AH out of the batteries.

11.5V is well past the 12V "stop using" point. If you got there after 18AH of discharge from fully charged, that's not good. The stock flooded lead acid batteries should be around 80AH usable ( and with the "water" properly topped off ....). The AGM's should give 100AH usable.

At the very least it's time to pull the batteries and get them load tested ( = a full load test, not a cracking amps test).

My answer after our first season of camping was to scrap the stock 12V stuff and drop in 400AH of Battle Born lithiums. I've been very happy with how they have performed. Two are out in the battery box. Two are under the center console on the sofa. ( which I've customized more than a little ).

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by thewarden

I agree. If replacing with just deep cycle, the Costco route is probably the way to go. On the other hand, low-end lithiums may not necessarily be the way to go. I have been looking at the various lithium brands for over a year. The low-end ones have cheaper components, (BMS, balancing leads, lithium cells, etc) and component assembly not done very well. All this can lead to early failure of these low-end lithiums, but just beyond the point of the much shorter warranties than higher end lithiums. This may cause you to spend more in the longrun, not less.

Hi

I'm not suggesting that the low end lithiums are the silver bullet here. The only point is that their price is overlapping the AGM price range. If you can get lithiums for the cost of AGM's, even ones that only make it 8 years are still a better deal.

To get into all the math:

To get 100AH usable of AGM's I need to buy two batteries. To get the same usable capacity with lithium, I only need to buy one battery. Yes, folks do buy lithiums in pairs. The second one is an upgrade rather than a replacement.

Right now a "good deal" on the Lifeline AGM's (delivered) on the internet looks like it's a bit over $400 each (and likely out of stock). Folks have reported paying half again that much "over the counter". Let's call it $800 to $900 for the pair.

Costco will sell you a "Lion Energy" 105 AH lithium for something around $600 over the counter / on sale. The $200-ish delta will pay for a converter / charger change out. Changing out the stock converter charger is a good idea no matter what. Is it really part of a lithium upgrade? I'd swap it if I got new AGM's ....

Yes this is all DIY pricing. There will be tools and grunt labor going into the mix. It's not a slam dunk for the lithium. It's simply saying there isn't a lot going for the AGM.

Bob

[thewarden]

I agree completely. Although, I would not consider Lion Energy a low end battery and they were on my shortlist to replace the 3rd set of Interstates on my '16 27 FB.

I do not have solar and I was regularly running the wet cells well below 50% while boondocking for only a couple of days, killing them outright in short order.

In the end, I opted for 2 Battleborns and a new PD charger converter. The expense was well worth not having to replace wet cells regularly through my misuse and the anxiety knowing I was killing another set of batteries every time I was out for a couple of days.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I'm in no way saying that the Lion batteries are bad, only that they are a bit of an unknowns at this point. They certainly are at the lower end of the price range. There are a number of competitors with similar prices and short track records. They may be great ... who knows?

For now, I'm sticking with BB's in most of the RV's and playing with the lower cost stuff for home applications. We'll see how it goes.

Bob

[Presitla99]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I'm in no way saying that the Lion batteries are bad, only that they are a bit of an unknowns at this point. They certainly are at the lower end of the price range. There are a number of competitors with similar prices and short track records. They may be great ... who knows?

For now, I'm sticking with BB's in most of the RV's and playing with the lower cost stuff for home applications. We'll see how it goes.

Bob

I am going to JC at the end of September for a multi-point check and some warranty work before it expires. Have made arrangements for them to do a lithium upgrade. That should solve the problems. Thanks all for the replies.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Presitla99

I am going to JC at the end of September for a multi-point check and some warranty work before it expires. Have made arrangements for them to do a lithium upgrade. That should solve the problems. Thanks all for the replies.

Hi

Have them put on a few more solar panels at the same time. They aren't the perfect answer to all power problems, but they do help a lot. It's only money ( ... and in this case not my money ...)

Bob

[Presitla99]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Have them put on a few more solar panels at the same time. They aren't the perfect answer to all power problems, but they do help a lot. It's only money ( ... and in this case not my money ...)

Bob

Bob:
I’ll get a quote. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Presitla99

Bob:
I’ll get a quote. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Hi

My crystal ball predicts $2,312.81 for however many panels they will put on
(= it was close to that when we had them add 2 to our Classic).

Bob