Battery draw down on 2018 Classic

[travelux1969]

can i ask a silly question? why do people use refrigerators on electricity when boondocking? use your fridge on propane and it should cut 12volt use to a bare minimum for that necessity. i cannot relate to the modern airstreams and power use, but my wife and i camp in an open field (giant flea market) with no generator, use a single 12volt deep cycle lead acid, 40 watt solar, on our 1969 travelux, 24 footer. the fridge is on propane and is old enough that it has no need of 12volt for any circuit. that limits our power use to lights and a water pump. we can do this camping for just under a week with no issues. simple vintage trailer, limited power use, no need for air conditioning up here in Canada, even in early June. TV is a 97 ram 1500, 4x4, 318 with 5 spd std. now if i could just find an older ram 4x4 without those damn computors, life would be good.

[vikx]

Lots of good advice and ideas above. I am not familiar with your Classic but:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the propane detector if you have one. They tend to draw the batteries down, sort of phantom-like. It might help to disconnect it if it's hardwired to the batteries and see if that helps.

Definitely run the fridge on propane as well.

[Laurai]

We had battery drawdown when we were connected to shore power! Completely different problem, yes, but our solution was someone finally finding we had some wires crossed.... just a thought. All that stuff I under the closet.

[Overstreet]

Originally Posted by Overstreet

In my 2018 Classic the solar controller (on wall above range top) has digital read outs for battery capacity in %, and solar charging rate in amps. None of this .2amps down in battery capacity.

Charging amps will be in the .2 at sunrise. Before it will be 0. But once the sun comes up it jumps up to …… to..... oh I forget. But it seems to be 2 or 3 amp rate.

.

Pic is from arriving at Canopener……..

[Kyet]

"One thing I've found that is a huge energy hog, even when not "on" or in use, is the inverter. Try disconnecting the power lead to the inverter, and see how much that helps, you may be surprised.
Depending on how much you use the inverter (the front couch has to have 120v to work), you can install a simple on/off switch for it, and just turn it on when you want to use it."

Where did you install the on off switch in terms accessibility? The breaker panel is in front of the converter. Also, everyone mentions the propane detector draws a bit. Do people disconnect them and just go without?

[uncle_bob]

If you decide to put in a switch for the inverter, it needs to be a honking big switch. The startup surge on the inverter is "non trivial". Think in terms of the same sort of 300A continuous rated switch you would use for a full disconnect of the battery system. They aren't terribly expensive, but they are not at all small.

Also consider that you have to get the great big cables to the inverter up to the switch. Like the switch, they are pretty bulky. They need to be supported and kept from shaking things to death.

Bob

[Kyet]

Yep. I saw a number of posts throughout the forums that talk about how much the Inverter draws even when turned off. I never use the Inverter when I am off shore power. I took the batteries in and they are fine. So I am back to why I have such signifant draw down. No lights, no Inverter, water pump for a moment here and there, and of course the refridgerator set to propane. Hmmm. My propane level goes down a bit so I believe the fridge does switch to propane with it's small draw on the batteries. There have been some electrical issues from the get go which may or may not have been fully addressed (some addressed but a continual problem with batteries). They charge up with solar, generator, and shore power. They just go way down within a couple of hours. Trust me, I keep a spreadsheet charting how many minutes it takes for the battery to get to the point whare I need to run the genset so the batteries stay healthy. Arrgghh.

[billrector]

Originally Posted by Kyet

Yep. I saw a number of posts throughout the forums that talk about how much the Inverter draws even when turned off. I never use the Inverter when I am off shore power. I took the batteries in and they are fine. So I am back to why I have such signifant draw down. No lights, no Inverter, water pump for a moment here and there, and of course the refridgerator set to propane. Hmmm. My propane level goes down a bit so I believe the fridge does switch to propane with it's small draw on the batteries. There have been some electrical issues from the get go which may or may not have been fully addressed (some addressed but a continual problem with batteries). They charge up with solar, generator, and shore power. They just go way down within a couple of hours. Trust me, I keep a spreadsheet charting how many minutes it takes for the battery to get to the point whare I need to run the genset so the batteries stay healthy. Arrgghh.

I think you have received an explanation....you have normal loads that are on even in store mode. The two biggest are the inverter and the propane detector. On the inverter, you seem to acknowledge that it draws power even when off, but then go on to say you don’t use it except on shore power. I’m hoping you understand that it draws power even when not used and in the off position?

You have the same thing the rest of us have and have been offered several good solutions. Try one or more.

[Kyet]

Originally Posted by billrector

I think you have received an explanation....you have normal loads that are on even in store mode. The two biggest are the inverter and the propane detector. On the inverter, you seem to acknowledge that it draws power even when off, but then go on to say you don’t use it except on shore power. I’m hoping you understand that it draws power even when not used and in the off position?

You have the same thing the rest of us have and have been offered several good solutions. Try one or more.

Why in the Wild Wild West would you presume I haven't tried all of these. Twice... Or should I say for over a year.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Have you taken the inverter completely out of the loop?
As in removed.

Bob
🇺🇸

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Kyet

Where did you install the on off switch in terms accessibility? The breaker panel is in front of the converter. Also, everyone mentions the propane detector draws a bit. Do people disconnect them and just go without?

Most folks install a cutoff switch at the battery, in the battery box.... if you install one per the diagrams attached, it’s guaranteed that you will have no draws against the battery, as it will be properly isolated from the trailer.

Blue Sea is a very popular choice, they are very robust, rated to 300amps, and are all weather so they can be mounted inside or outside of the battery box (I’ve done it both ways). They cost $30-$35 bucks and provide 100% assurance your batteries will sleep comfortably when the trailer is in storage.

[billrector]

Originally Posted by Kyet

Why in the Wild Wild West would you presume I haven't tried all of these. Twice... Or should I say for over a year.

I think I spelled that out clearly. You said you had not used the inverter. I was making it clear it draws power when off. But....you probably already knew that.

[gator.bigfoot]

What is your loading in amps? Do you have a battery monitor? That would tell us a lot. Without it you're just guessing.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Most folks install a cutoff switch at the battery, in the battery box.... if you install one per the diagrams attached, it’s guaranteed that you will have no draws against the battery, as it will be properly isolated from the trailer.

Blue Sea is a very popular choice, they are very robust, rated to 300amps, and are all weather so they can be mounted inside or outside of the battery box (I’ve done it both ways). They cost $30-$35 bucks and provide 100% assurance your batteries will sleep comfortably when the trailer is in storage.

As suggested above, install a mechanical kill switch. Remove the source of the power. You can still plug in to shore power and use all your internal functions, even without the battery connected... This isn't rocket science..."yet".... I use the knife switch shown, but there are better models out there...in several battery threads; (like this thread)

Note this is an old picture with the OEM Interstates...I have since swapped out with 6V Trojan Golf Cart batteries...if money were no issue, I would get the lithium from Randy....

[Kyet]

[QUOTE=wulfraat;2216665]Most folks install a cutoff switch at the battery, in the battery box.... if you install one per the diagrams attached, it’s guaranteed that you will have no draws against the battery, as it will be properly isolated from the trailer.

Thank you wulfraat. I do not actually want to cut off the batteries as I would be using them. I'm just trying to eliminate any draws that I am not using while off shore power.

Someone had suggested I add a cutoff switch just for the inverter. Someone also said I could take it out entirely but I definately don't want to do that. It would be just as much wiring redo as adding a cut off switch for the unit. I was just asking
if some had a Classic where did they mount it.

[steverino]

Here’s what I am considering for an inverter cutoff switch. It will mount directly on the battery + stud. It’s smaller and less expensive than the BlueSea marine switch. A new product, should be available from multiple sources later this month.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/599...d_Mount_Switch

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Kyet

Thank you wulfraat. I do not actually want to cut off the batteries as I would be using them. I'm just trying to eliminate any draws that I am not using while off shore power.


Someone had suggested I add a cutoff switch just for the inverter. Someone also said I could take it out entirely but I definately don't want to do that. It would be just as much wiring redo as adding a cut off switch for the unit. I was just asking

if some had a Classic where did they mount it.

The first diagram I provided above shows a 4 position blue sea switch - cut off battery, cut off inverter, or cut off both. So you can leave battery “on” but leave inverter “off” with position 1 on the switch. This 4 position switch is also shown in the photos - you can see one big positive 1/0 cable to the battery, one smaller 6 gauge to the house and a 4 guage to the inverter.

You will destroy your batteries if you leave them in storage for 2 weeks without fully disconnecting from the trailer, FYI.

Blue sea switch will fit inside the battery box of a 2018 mode year trailer per the first photo above.

If you are sitting in your trailer, with batteries connected, basically not doing anything, plan on 1-2.5amps continuous draw from the batteries just to keep the fridge on radio in standby mode, and a few other ancillaries in standby mode, etc.. that’s about 25-50 amp hours used per 24 hour period if the trailer is hot but relatively idol. So basically you’ll need to recharge your batteries every 2-3 days even when sitting “idol” but connected to the batteries.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ummm .... errrr ....

The big drain issue is in storage. For that, you want to cut off *all* the loads.

In use on a modern Classic you have much higher drains on a Classic than the parasitic from the inverter. The "idle" current with no fridge is 5X what the inverter parasitic pulls. Turn on the fridge and the current doubles.

Running down the road, sure the charge wire does not do a lot. Even in the worst case, it will do *way* more than keep up with the inverter parasitic. It's likely you have the fridge on while moving. In that case the inverter is a non-issue.

If the inverter is a "never use it / never will" sort of thing, just pull it out or detach the wire.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Uncle Bob is right... and, recommend you get a mechanical kill switch...or, drive yourself "nutz" reliving many of the same experiences we all have learned from with batteries....just saying!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, so sitting here with the rain pouring down and nothing much to do other than look at the BMV 712. With the Alde running, the fridge on propane, and the trailer active, we hit a bit over 4A of drain. Plug in a few USB gizmos in need of charging and that spikes up to about 6A of drain. The mighty solar panels on the roof are pumping in a whopping amp (yes one amp) of current. We're out in "full sun" such as that is in the rain and clouds.

Actually there *is* one thing we could do .,.. when the winery opens up we could walk in for another round of wine tastings.

Over night we ran an average of just under 4A with the light in the wardrobe on (door was not shut all the way ). That's with the heat on and the fridge running.

If we still had the "stock" batteries, we'd have about 100AH of usable capacity. A day of running at these levels would get us pretty close to dead. That's just how it works. Without a proper battery monitor, telling "dead" from "almost dead" from "still ok" would be nearly impossible. Freak out time might hit at 80AH. We could just as easily pull 120 AH and not know we were trashing the batteries.

As it is, with 400 usable AH of capacity onboard (the trailer has been modified a bit ...) I'm not very worried about any of this. We just about up to 3 days on battery and still have 78% capacity remaining. Indeed, when the sun *is* out the solar does a better job ....

So - simple rules of thumb:

Stock batteries and normal use, figure just over a day of battery power.

Stock batteries and storage without a cutoff switch, figure about two weeks in the shade.

Could you do better? Sure you could. However, the fridge plus the Firefly get you over 2A all by themselves. You will hit a wall at 2 days in the rain / shade.

Bob