Alde Gas Failure When Very Cold

[Kkremington]

BASICS:
2021 Classic 30RB
Live in it full time
Oklahoma weather is crazy.
60 degrees one day, 11 degrees the next.
Trailer connected to an external 250 gallon propane tank that is full.
All connections are good.
Replaced regulator and did pressure test, all good.
Have plenty of hot water and stove and oven work perfectly.

PROBLEM:
Intermittent gas failure on the Alde 3020 system.
From trial and error, seems to MOSTLY gas failure when we get below freezing.
Still will give a gas failure above freezing just not as often.
Contacted Alde and they advised it was probably the line from the tank to trailer being elevated and not buried. Switched to factory tanks, did better but still got gas failures below freezing. Replaced regulator, less gas failure but still does it. (It's 27 right now and I had to go home at lunch because it failed.) Repair person straightened a hose that had a little bend in it, did pressure test and replaced the regulator. Still fails. Reset system and it will start back up and run.

Settings are: gas priority, no boost on, temp set to 64.

Anyone else had this issue? Any tips?

The most worrisome part is that we want to live in this as long as possible but it's just not practical to never know if we will have heat and for how long. Becoming very discouraged. Thank you in advance!!!!

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

I haven’t done a lot of cold weather camping so my experience with Alde in freezing temps is low.

I did a quick google search and it appears that propane doesn’t freeze until -44 but it does shrink as it gets cold so pressure drops.

Sounds like that is what you are experiencing is a gas failure due to pressure dropping. Can you insulate your propane pipes? I have seen people shirt their trailers in freezing temps and place a 100w bulb under the trailer. This generates enough heat to prevent the tanks from freezing. Just a thought, this may help your propane situation.

[GCinSC2]

Pressure test of a propane regulator is one test but you haven’t mentioned a flow or under load test of the propane system.

This test monitors inches of water column pressure while delivering propane. Based on your description might be interesting if this load test can be done right at the gas line connection to the alde.

[Kkremington]

Thanks! Will get with repair shop to see! Hardest part is living in it we cannot really take it and drop it off for repairs or else I’d have to live in their shop for a while!

[GCinSC2]

Are you a DIY type and able to open a gas line?

Pretty sure I've read of propane lines getting a slug of goo in the line from goo in the gas. Yup I don't know this part very well but the fix is to shut off tanks remove the line where it attaches just below the regulator, disconnect the line at the Alde and using low PSI compressed air blow out the line see if the goo comes out. And soapy water is tool of many to test fittings for gas leaks after opening any lines. I have no 1st hand experience with Alde systems. And a recent thread describing oily (goo) in the lines. https://www.airforums.com/forums/f28...ne-205933.html

And this is Darren at My RV Works mobile repair showing the testing procedure.

Midwest City we spent 3 years in Mustang, good times we enjoyed OK.

Gary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD1qcH_hNYY&t=978s

[Buckless]

Yes it sounds like you should blow out gas line there may be water mixed with goo.

[kevinf]

I have run in to this problem as well. We like to camp in to late October in Fundy Ntl. Park in New Brunswick, Canada and the temps can get to -5 Celsius (23 F) sometimes at night. When I had my Boler the gas flow would slow down and the propane fire pit would have a pretty low flame when below zero C. With the Argosy the worse symptom so far has been the Hot Water heater won't stay lit . I've been told the propane while under pressure in the tank is liquid and as soon as pressure is released during use it turns to gas (boils). The colder it gets the slower it "Boils" - hence the slow rate of gas flow when below zero. I tried insulating the lines with that foam type of insulation with a mixed result. I like the other post repliers suggestion to blow out the lines as well, as freezing liquid in the lines would certainly cause a blockage! I find the purity of propane in recent years has waned and have had to clean up old stoves and lanterns etc. that were fine for 40 years but clogging up in recent times.

[TKerns]

Propane pressure drops off rapidly with temperature. Pressure at 32 F is about half the pressure at 7OF, and pressure at 0 F is about 1/4 of what it was at 70 F.

Many systems use propane tank heaters for winter use plus insulation to maintain pressure; google propane tank heater, one example below…..

https://mopeka.com/product-category/heaters/

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you sit and watch your typical propane space heater and it's tiny gas bottle, you will notice frost forming on the bottle. Touch it and indeed ... it's quite cold. The air may be 40F, but the bottle is *way* colder than that. Turning liquid propane into gas requires energy. That has to come from somewhere. The air around the tank may be the only source.

As the liquid chills, it's the temperature of that liquid (not the air temp) that maters in terms of the pressure generated. The closer the liquid the lower the pressure over the liquid. There's a cute graph here:

https://www.pveng.com/dual-certified...ature-service/

Your propane setup has a regulator on it. That regulator is designed to take very high pressure gas and knock it down to "not much at all". The regulator has a drop out point. Once you get below that pressure level, it simply stops passing gas.

From the chart, at 0 F, you are at maybe 25 PSI. That's low enough that the regulator may be struggling. Having the liquid at zero (or below) when the air is at 20 something is not all that unusual.

Why burry the tank? The ground doesn't freeze very fast or very deep. There is some distance that it will stay fairly warm at. Of course if you pull enough gas fast enough, it will try to freeze the soil. Normally you don't use that much gas that fast.

Is it for sure this is what's happening to you right now? Certainly not. A lot depends on the tanks and how they are located. It also very much depends on the exact regulator you have and how healthy it is. What is for sure is that at some point below zero (liquid temp) you *will* run into trouble.

Bob

[AKmtnpilot]

If you go to a campground in cold areas (skiing/snowmobiling) you will find many with a light bulb of top of the propane tank keeping the valve warm. Propane does contain water vapor. If you have a low spot or sag, water will collect there causing a restriction. When it freezes, it may expand enough to block the line. As mentioned, disconnect line at both ends and blow out. fix any sags. Been there, done that.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Kkremington

Thanks! Will get with repair shop to see! Hardest part is living in it we cannot really take it and drop it off for repairs or else I’d have to live in their shop for a while!

Any conclusion? That helps others to solve similar problems.

Gary

[LilPeanut]

The simplest thing to try first - Never run Alde below freezing on less than 1/2 tank. In freezing weather, I keep a full tank and fill the other when it is down to 1/2. It is harder for propane to become a gas when it gets colder and you need more surface area of propane to outside air temp to transfer enough heat differential.

Applying that heat differential to the area above the liquid propane does little to nothing. That is like trying to get a half full pot of water to boil by applying heat to the pot side above the waterline.

Your best propane results come from a full tank in freezing to sub-freezing. Try it and see what happens, you are going to need the propane anyway.

[JohnSn]

This old piece of data might help.
I used to live in Colorado. We heated our home with a large propane tank that was, obviously, outdoors. 0F not too uncommon. No issues with heating my house for years. The pipe to the house was buried but exposed for a good 3ft.

[Kkremington]

We seem to have made progress. With everyone's suggestions we moved the tank closer to the trailer and installed a much shorter hose, wrapped said hose as well in insulation. Between all of the other things and these new measures we have been more successful. Have not had a gas failure until last night when it was 12 degrees F outside, snowing and wind. (Icicles hanging off of the Airstream). Progress at least!

[KCurtis]

Last February I experience 12 degrees in our 25 Footer and I had no problems running the furnace using the 30 Lbs tanks under the cover on the front of the Airstream.