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Old 02-26-2020, 03:54 PM   #1
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30' Classic 2020

Does anyone have information or photo's of loveseat removal and recliner installs
done at Jackson Center on newer model rear bedroom 30' Classic? Saw the post on the mods to the 33' Classic with Lambright recliners. It looks like the 30' would be much easier.

Thanks
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:44 PM   #2
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Are you certain itís done at JC? Most of those mods are done by 3rd parties. Airstream unlimited in PNW is a perfect example. They have photos on their website.
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Old 02-27-2020, 04:24 AM   #3
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Are you certain itís done at JC? Most of those mods are done by 3rd parties. Airstream unlimited in PNW is a perfect example. They have photos on their website.
Will check out that website. We. had a 25' FC that JC took out the dinette and put in two Lambright recliners for us several years ago and built several cabinets with original wood and countertop. Thanks
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:29 PM   #4
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In case it is helpful, the below picture shows the sofa about half way out (2020 30' Classic RB). I circled an example of the floor bolts that hold the steel frame to the floor, and the bolts that hold in the armrests. The seat cushions have four bolts each to expose the frame, and the center seat pad only has two bolts. Removal is not a difficult job (I've done it three times now for various reasons).

There is a hole through the floor board to the left center, tucked near the Alde radiator which passes through battery power from the outside into the grey plastic junction box shown. It would be easiest to place a center console there to maintain the location of the junction box and house the "rats nest". That would also allow the Alde bleed hose to stay there and the useful AC outlet from the inverter could be extended to the outside of the console. A continuation of the Alde shroud up to the new console would protect the radiator and conceal the interior wiring. Other than that, the question is if you would redo the flooring because of the damage where the seat frame bolts pass through currently, or if the new recliners would cover enough of it and if there is something to be done to repair the other holes.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell View Post
In case it is helpful, the below picture shows the sofa about half way out (2020 30' Classic RB). I circled an example of the floor bolts that hold the steel frame to the floor, and the bolts that hold in the armrests. The seat cushions have four bolts each to expose the frame, and the center seat pad only has two bolts. Removal is not a difficult job (I've done it three times now for various reasons).

There is a hole through the floor board to the left center, tucked near the Alde radiator which passes through battery power from the outside into the grey plastic junction box shown. It would be easiest to place a center console there to maintain the location of the junction box and house the "rats nest". That would also allow the Alde bleed hose to stay there and the useful AC outlet from the inverter could be extended to the outside of the console. A continuation of the Alde shroud up to the new console would protect the radiator and conceal the interior wiring. Other than that, the question is if you would redo the flooring because of the damage where the seat frame bolts pass through currently, or if the new recliners would cover enough of it and if there is something to be done to repair the other holes.
Thanks for the photo. It looks like removing the couch and putting in recliners is a very doable option. We had out 25'FC modified by taking out the dinette and installing recliners at Jackson Center. Its amazing the things they can do but its not cheap.
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Old 03-05-2020, 10:37 AM   #6
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You may have already seen this, but I just found the below linked photo of a completed conversion in a 2017 Classic 30 RB. It is from the Operation 2015+ Classic Upgrade thread (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...-203704-2.html). It looks like they completed this as speculated.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/att...4&d=1577402005
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:33 AM   #7
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Helpful pictures. I am planning to move the entire recliner sofa about one foot rearward to provide enough room for a lithium battery bank and all the associated new electronics.
I am planning to add a 2200 watt generator with an LP conversion behind the LP tanks after removing the current AGMs and their battery box. I will try to photo document the process.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:16 PM   #8
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That will be a big project, very interesting. I really like the idea of the on-board generator! I currently have 630Ah of AGM batteries (4 under the couch and 2 out front), see pictures. I've been contemplating how I would handle it when upgrading to Lithium. I can drop in 720Ah of Lithium into this exact same footprint, or 460Ah if I only have 4 Li batteries under the couch, leaving the outside compartment empty. I was thinking that if I want to go bigger than that then I would probably move the system to under the rear bed.
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jmitchell View Post
That will be a big project, very interesting. I really like the idea of the on-board generator! I currently have 630Ah of AGM batteries (4 under the couch and 2 out front), see pictures. I've been contemplating how I would handle it when upgrading to Lithium. I can drop in 720Ah of Lithium into this exact same footprint, or 460Ah if I only have 4 Li batteries under the couch, leaving the outside compartment empty. I was thinking that if I want to go bigger than that then I would probably move the system to under the rear bed.
Did you change out any other electronics? I have purchased 2 Renogy 100w panels to add to the roof. I talked to Airstream and they said the OEM wiring was sized for five 80w panels. My 2019 came with three so 240w on top now. I have never seen the panel output above 200w even in direct sunlight in AZ so an additional 200w should be fine. I purchased a Renogy Adventurer Li- 30A PWM Flush Mount Charge Controller w/ LCD Display, 3000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/ LCD Display, and install kit. I got four Renogy 100AHr batteries on sale over Christmas.

I can see how the batteries would fit under the center of the recliner like you have done. The charge controller and hybrid inverter are far too big to fit under the closet where the stock stuff is and the wiring is way undersized for a 3000w inverter.

My wife is totally freaked about me even touching the recliner.

BTW, the Harbor Freight 2200w "silent" generator will fit between the LP tanks and the trailer. There are LP conversions so you can run the generator off LP instead of gasoline. I have a 3500w HF "silent" generator converted to LP and it is even quieter than running on gas. The rear bedroom arrangement helps.

I will relook under the recliner to see if there is any way to fit everything under there without shifting it forward.
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Old 03-09-2020, 03:11 PM   #10
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I didn't replace the inverter or charge controller, since the factory charge profile matches the AGM requirements fairly well. When I upgrade to lithium I'll need to replace the inverter as you are. I agree, there is no way to fit a new inverter under the recliner with the new batteries. The factory inverter is under the kitchen sink area not the closet, basically it looks like AS tried to place it as close to the batteries as they could and still be under the kitchen cabinet, which is about half way between the main distribution panel (under the closet and solar junction wiring), and the batteries. The big question to me is how long is that factory wire from the inverter to the batteries (>10ft?), and is it run in a way that will allow for a heavy 4/0 wire to replace it without rerouting. It may be able to be done if you run it under the AS with a new hole in the floor under the recliner since the existing hole would make the wire run too long I think, not a great option to me though may be better to other project alternatives if done right? I haven't traced that wire to the inverter yet to figure this out, but I think I know where it goes along the frame to the existing battery box. To me it is a matter of can you fit the new inverter under the sink, and can you reasonably run a heavy wire to the front batteries. If not, I would start looking hard at the rear under-bed location which would also be a big project.

By the way. The batteries I have under the recliner are a very tight fit (about a quarter of an inch to spare vertically in the configuration shown in the photo under the back of the seat frame. They are Lifeline GPL-4CT. You can look up the dimensions on line. The Lithiums that I found which match this same form factor for an easy drop in replacement are the Expion 360 (120Ah). They are expensive. I found a way to get two Victron batteries in there as well, but that would drop the Ah to a total of 400 without using the outside. One of the battleborn batteries may be able to configure in there, it was very close and I think I ruled it out for some reason, I would need to check the drawings again (they have two form-factor options).

I guess to summarize my thoughts if you don't need more than 460Ah of Lithium: First see if we can fit a new inverter under the sink area as close to the front as possible (maybe a 2,000W Victron?), then find a way to run a heavy gauge from there to under the recliner (as short as possible, ideally less than 10' or close to it). Then place 4 of the Expion360 batteries under the recliner in the center (only two bolts to access the batteries later if you stay under the center). Done. Beyond that, we are talking much more major projects. I believe the more expensive batteries, and possibly inverter, will pay dividends in how much less modification is required and associated ease of installation. We spend a fortune on these rigs, I think if we want a nice, clean install without going crazy then we need to throw money at the problem. That is why I started with the AGM batteries (already had two of them), defers the cost and gives me some time for engineering the system you are contemplating.
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Old 03-09-2020, 03:29 PM   #11
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Update: I just checked the Renology website, and they have the 100Ah in a matching form factor as the GPL-4CT, their model number is RNG-BAT TLFP-12-100. The other form factor for the 100Ah is too tall (11.4 in.) to fit under the recliner and if you lay it flat I don't think you can fit all 4 under there, I would need to play around with the dimensions, but on first glance I don't think so. There is a center seat support that could potentially be cut out and weld in another support, but even then I'm not sure that form factor would fit without impacting the recliner areas, and associated functionality. If you have the other form factor, maybe they would trade you.
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Old 03-09-2020, 05:29 PM   #12
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Solar

One thing I forgot to mention. I believe your classic has 3x90Watt panels, not 80? Also you will want to watch it when combining panels with different specs. Aside from the wattage, operating current and voltage specifications will vary by panel design and manufacture. You will want to review this to understand how compatible your new panels will be with existing. Depending on how you wire these, the lower of the two operating currents and voltage will limit your array.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:04 AM   #13
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Mitch,
I have four Renogy RNG-BATT-LFP-12-100. I couldn't find an RNG-BATT-TLFP-12-100 model. Perhaps I can purchase 2 additional 90-watt panels from Airstream. The missing 10 watts will hardly matter. I will still need a new combiner box on the roof.
I was trying to get enough inverter power to run an AC unit. I suppose it might start on a 2000 watt inverter with soft starts but it will be an expensive experiment if it doesn't.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:42 AM   #14
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It looks like your batteries will fit (length of ~10.2 is the right form factor). An option for the larger inverter: If you pull out the drawer below the microwave/convection oven, I believe there is something like 4.8in. of vertical clearance below the drawer rails where the stock inverter is, since the 3,000W inverters won't fit in that clearance (the 2,000 will with some modification), then you may be able to modify the back of the drawer (if your new inverter fits between the slides), or make the drawer not as deep, and shorten the slides to give you the space under there. Sure beats moving the recliners back if you can sort out the wire to that location.

I don't know what loss you would have on the panels, its not the wattage subtraction, the calculation is based on the difference in operating voltage or current, but I bet your right it wouldn't be that much if your not worried about it. I wonder if those are Zamp panels up there right now, AM Solar sells some Zamp kits that look similar to stock specs.
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:47 AM   #15
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I don't know what loss you would have on the panels, its not the wattage subtraction, the calculation is based on the difference in operating voltage or current, but I bet your right it wouldn't be that much if your not worried about it. I wonder if those are Zamp panels up there right now, AM Solar sells some Zamp kits that look similar to stock specs.
I believe they are Zamp. I had 2 more panels installed on my 2019 Classic 30.

Check with Zamp as they make a "Y" that plugs into the three-way making it a 6-way combiner. They told Airstream that this was acceptable to increase the combiner box ability to add more panels. Airstream did not have the Y's at the time of my installation so they cut into the box and rewired. They said it has little space to do this but they got it done. They probably turned it into a "rat's nests".
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:19 AM   #16
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The Battleborns are 12.75 x 6.875 x 9. (L x W x H)

GPL-4ct Lifelines are 10.28 x 7.060 x 9.92 (L x W x H)

What is the usable space under the center section? W x L x H rear- H front?

I'm looking to do this installation but with three Battleborns.

Losing the size of the drawer under the microwave will be a great loss for my wife.


After rereading this post I apologize if it has been hijacked. We should move our droolings to another thread.
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:34 AM   #17
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Your right, we should move to a new thread. You have a previous thread for the batteries we can use (I had also started one last year, but the title included Lifelines so let's move to yours):
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...fa-198295.html
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:37 AM   #18
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Gleverette - Thank you for hosting our detour under the thread you started.. Glad your question was answered.
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:48 AM   #19
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turk123,
Stay on this thread. I don't feel hijacked and would be surprised if jmitchell does. You have been great help on several other electronic challenges. Why not work together on this one?

My wife would kill me if I sliced off part of a drawer. Everything is full. I don't like the idea of putting everything under one of the rear beds either. I have now learned the hard way that the Classic 30 RBT is already tongue weight-challenged. I had a 2" hitch receiver welded below the rear bumper to accept a Thule T2 Pro XT with the 2 bike add-on (four bikes total). The weight of the carrier alone is like 60#s. Even putting 2 bikes on it reduced my tongue weight by 180#s. Oh, the joys of leverage. The trailer wandered like a drunken sailor. Not a fun pull. I removed the two bike Add-On and only loaded two bikes. I also filled the fresh water tank and moved a bunch of heavy totes (firewood) from the bed of the truck to the front of the trailer. It tows tolerably with the Pro-Pride hitch but I have a call into them to try to understand if there is something else I can do. The message is, do not take weight off the tongue (i.e. removing two heavy AGM batteries from the tongue and moving weight to behind the rear wheels such as into one of the under bed compartments.)
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:24 AM   #20
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Hi Froglips, I don't feel hijacked, but Gleverett started this one. I already posted a response on the thread started by Turk123 linked in the above. What do you think about moving your last post over there. I agree, this is good problem solving.
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