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Old 09-13-2020, 08:50 PM   #41
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[QUOTE=Rocinante;2410124]Oliver trailers are great. Not perfect, mind you, but really great. They also give an excellent factory tour, which we enjoyed very much. Almost bought one ourselves after the tour, back when we were thinking of downsizing our Airstream trailer. Here's hoping you have a great experience. [/QUOTE

Thank you for your positive response; I truly expected negativity We have not taken the Oliver factory tour (we live in the Pacific NW), but the factory tour video is what sold us on an Oliver.

We like the simplicity of the Oliver, with fewer creature comforts than most RVs these days; a trailer that is practical for both on and off grid camping. (This year they are offering a lithium solar package with 340w of roof mounted solar panels, 400ah lithium batteries, and a 3000w inverter). We have chosen no TV antenna and no microwave, which you pay for on most RVs whether you want them or not.

There are trade-offs: Oliver doesn't have the selection of floor plans found in most RVs, with only two models and three floor plans. However, what they do offer is functional and robustly built. Most importantly, Oliver cares about their owners. During the early years of building trailers, Oliver relied on owners as valued meme mold as other makes and models. Oliver has dedicated it's resources to building "better trailers", with input from those who use them. I knbers of their R&D team. These trailers aren't designed and built from the samow we will be pleased with our decision but will continue to admire those beautiful silver Airstreams when we meet them on the road.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:49 PM   #42
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I promised an update posting...

First for the good:

1. Air conditioners literally can freeze you out...they work fantastic.

2. We love knowing the floors are composite ... when the dogs spill the water bowl, we wipe it up but don’t worry.

3. She tows beautifully. The ProPride hitch has a lot to do with that but still, towing is no issue.

4. Desk area is perfect for working remotely.

5. Not sure who makes the mattress (Queen) but it’s fantastic.


Now for the not so good...not many items to add but a few:

1. While cleaning I saw a screw under the edge of the sofa. Got under there and all 8 screws holding the sofa frame to the sides were only about half way screwed in. Also saw a large bolt head on the floor which should have been attached to help hold the sofa to the frame. Really hard to understand how/why these screws and bolts were not fastened securely.

2. Still having hot water issues. We can get hot only when we think about it 15 minutes before we need it. If we push the shower boost and the electric and the gas, the water will get hot. It will gradually drop in temperature though after that back down to just warm temp. This issue is at all outlets. It’s not a mixer valve issue - we have adjusted that almost to the point that the valve came out of the mixer body. Both Alde pumps are set at the recommended 2 1/2 setting.

3. Re-caulked bottom of shower enclosure to eliminate the leaks.

4. I will admit in advance that I might need to go to a class or something but as far as we can tell, the onboard tech for WiFi is completely useless. This is our third location. Our AT&T phones have worked well in all three locations and have had full bars just outside the coach. Our Solis Skyroam hotspot has worked flawlessly. The onboard system is too slow to use. Further, the network does not project from the bedroom to the desk. Restarting the Pepwave does not help.

5. No further issues with the awning retracting fully. We do still have to provide manual assistance to the rear arm when extending.

We continue to be happy overall with our purchase and look forward to getting the coach into the dealer so these issues can be resolved.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:18 AM   #43
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Flip Side

I purchased a new 2015 FC30 from Woodland Airstream in Grand Rapids Michigan in July of 2015. They strongly encouraged us to “camp” overnight in their lot before taking the unit home. The only issue was the microwave oven would not pop the popcorn. They replaced it with a better microwave:convection oven. 35,000 miles later, no other “Initial build” quality Issues have cropped up. I hate to think we got the rare “good” Airstream. Perhaps those of us who have had a good experience don’t post enough about it. It should be noted that the 2015 FC has the older, simpler, systems for heating, refrigeration, hot water, manual awnings, manual window blinds, no WiFi booster, etc.
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Old 09-14-2020, 05:41 AM   #44
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[QUOTE=dmassey321;2410176]I promised an update posting...

Now for the not so good...not many items to add but a few:

1. While cleaning I saw a screw under the edge of the sofa. Got under there and all 8 screws holding the sofa frame to the sides were only about half way screwed in. Also saw a large bolt head on the floor which should have been attached to help hold the sofa to the frame. Really hard to understand how/why these screws and bolts were not fastened securely.

2. Still having hot water issues. We can get hot only when we think about it 15 minutes before we need it. If we push the shower boost and the electric and the gas, the water will get hot. It will gradually drop in temperature though after that back down to just warm temp. This issue is at all outlets. It’s not a mixer valve issue - we have adjusted that almost to the point that the valve came out of the mixer body. Both Alde pumps are set at the recommended 2 1/2 setting.

4. I will admit in advance that I might need to go to a class or something but as far as we can tell, the onboard tech for WiFi is completely useless. This is our third location. Our AT&T phones have worked well in all three locations and have had full bars just outside the coach. Our Solis Skyroam hotspot has worked flawlessly. The onboard system is too slow to use. Further, the network does not project from the bedroom to the desk. Restarting the Pepwave does not help.

Comments:
1. I have found incomplete installs, piles of construction trash, and many inexplicable things as I crawled around under furniture.

2. I have an identical problem. In my case it appears that Airstream did not install the Alde Flow auxiliary tank. Have you checked the Alde accessory settings to see if you have an Alde Flow option and, if so, it is checked. Like your couch with an incomplete installation, it appears that Airstream manufacturing just leaves things off or incompletely installed. Abysmal QC.

4. It is possible to get the AT&T WiFi working in the trailer. Unfortunately, most dealers don't have a clue about this system and many of the system's problem are self-inflicted wounds by Airstream. Recent updates to the PepLink have made things worse for most users. If you are going to JC for your warranty work, they will be able to fix it. A user on this forum, turk123, is quite expert on the system. I would PM him and search for his posts.

Best of luck.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:14 AM   #45
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Thanks for the post(s) and great info (everyone). I ordered a 2021 Classic 33 at the end of June from Airstream of Tampa - I'm due for it to come off the line on Nov 4 but who knows if that will really happen. It has already been bumped back once. I sent this thread to Jessica Herrmann (Sales Manager) and asked her not to let this experience happen to me. Need a great PDI from them and she promised a good delivery. Does anyone have PDI experience from AS of Tampa? We have owned Fleetwood 5th wheels in the past and now that we are empty nesters and the kids and their friends won't be traveling with us, we wanted to upgrade to better quality and easier towing. Looking forward to meeting you guys out in the woods somewhere!
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:34 AM   #46
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Froglips,

I can confirm that the Alde Flow unit is sitting under the dinette bench. I can also confirm that one of the original troubleshooting items was to ensure that it is checked under the installed accessories menu (which it was not originally). What I am unable to confirm is if it’s actually installed correctly or if it is just bolted to the floor. I pushed the shower boost button to get the water temp up around 7:00 am (gas and elec heaters were already on). Water temp, as reported by the Alde controller started around 112 and got to around 145 within about 10 mins. I was able to take a nice shower. By 9:00 when my wife got in the shower, we forgot to push the shower boost button 10 minutes in advance and her water temp was 113 which translated to “tepid” in the shower. This is just plain not right. I hope something is just amiss that can be rectified. Otherwise, we are going to need another unit that does not have Alde in it. We were excited about the Alde system because we had it prior in a SOB teardrop and it worked beautifully. One should not have to mess with buttons 10 minutes in advance of wanting hot water. If I were the dealer, I think I’d put my best tech in a car for a house call. Well, one can dream can’t they? We would call a mobile tech and pay for it ourselves if we thought they would have any clue about this system. Does anyone have the phone number of the person to call at Alde? I have seen people mention his name and that he has been helpful but have not been able to find a number.
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Old 09-14-2020, 07:50 PM   #47
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We bought our first rv ever. 2020 33' Classic. Bought the Airstream hoping to avoid some of the many issues that rvs can have. Our punch list is very similar. Except you could add on about 10 more issues. Been in the shop since first of April. Would love to have our money back. Unbelievable how shoddy the quality control is. So disappointed. Our first trip out with it was a nightmare. Airstream rep actually hung up the phone while my wife was demanding some answers on how to fix sometthings to work etc.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:44 PM   #48
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Wow! Hung up on her? How unprofessional!

I hope Airstream employees are monitoring this thread and forwarding them to the CEO. Mine is in the shop the 2nd time since March 4th and it even broke down on our way home. The back axle breaks locked up on it. My dealer has been great so far though, so hopefully we will get it all fixed over the next 3 years of warranty.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:50 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by dmassey321 View Post
Froglips,

I can confirm that the Alde Flow unit is sitting under the dinette bench. I can also confirm that one of the original troubleshooting items was to ensure that it is checked under the installed accessories menu (which it was not originally). What I am unable to confirm is if it’s actually installed correctly or if it is just bolted to the floor. I pushed the shower boost button to get the water temp up around 7:00 am (gas and elec heaters were already on). Water temp, as reported by the Alde controller started around 112 and got to around 145 within about 10 mins. I was able to take a nice shower. By 9:00 when my wife got in the shower, we forgot to push the shower boost button 10 minutes in advance and her water temp was 113 which translated to “tepid” in the shower. This is just plain not right. I hope something is just amiss that can be rectified. Otherwise, we are going to need another unit that does not have Alde in it. We were excited about the Alde system because we had it prior in a SOB teardrop and it worked beautifully. One should not have to mess with buttons 10 minutes in advance of wanting hot water. If I were the dealer, I think I’d put my best tech in a car for a house call. Well, one can dream can’t they? We would call a mobile tech and pay for it ourselves if we thought they would have any clue about this system. Does anyone have the phone number of the person to call at Alde? I have seen people mention his name and that he has been helpful but have not been able to find a number.
dmassey,
Your system is working correctly. There is nothing that can be done to remove the need to press a button 10 minutes before showering. Not only does the "boost" increase the temperatures, it also stops the heat circulation. It wouldn't be desireable to have no heat in a trailer for extended periods of time just to hold shower water at the ready.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
dmassey,
Your system is working correctly. There is nothing that can be done to remove the need to press a button 10 minutes before showering. Not only does the "boost" increase the temperatures, it also stops the heat circulation. It wouldn't be desireable to have no heat in a trailer for extended periods of time just to hold shower water at the ready.
So, every time you want to wash a glass you have to plan ahead 10 mins and hit the shower booster button? If so, the design of the system is extremely faulty. I think there are two gallons or so in the tank. Those two gallons should be kept at temperature until you need them. That’s how any decently designed hot water system works. The booster should need to kick in when your demanding more...like... I don’t know...when you actually want a shower...hence a shower symbol boost button? And, as it relates to stopping heat circulation, in three years with our last coach, we only ever ran the heater twice. We need hot water every single time. Sorry but my head is about to literally pop off! Do any of theses engineers ever consider the customer in their design process?

Please know my frustration is aimed at Airstream/Alde and not at you!

Now that my rant is over, has anyone added a working hot water heater to a Classic with Alde in it? Due to heating, I understand that the Alde can’t be replaced.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:48 AM   #51
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I think if you check that the Alde Flow is checked on your Alde panel and adjust the mixing valve (lots of discussion about how to do that elsewhere) you will have more hot water than you will ever use.

Due to codes and liability reasons, water heaters are set to deliver non-scalding water. But they are always adjustable. Just like at home you can turn up the thermostat on your hot water heater. After we did that, our water is too hot and I need to turn it down. Ours started at the same lukewarm default. Any competent dealer should have explained adjustment of the valve and they can do it for you if you don’t want to. But it is very simple. Takes less than a minute to turn a knob.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:57 AM   #52
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2021 Classic 33 - Initial Notes - Delivery and Quality

I sincerely doubt this is how the Alde system is supposed to work. Here's hoping you can find someone at Alde who can tell you what's supposed to happen, and someone in your dealer's service department who can go to the mat against Airstream corporate to win approval for the warranty work, and who knows enough about Alde to properly re-build whatever it is they threw into your trailer.
This experience shows yet again that Airstream cannot be trusted to build anything more complex than the units they were building at least ten years ago.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:37 AM   #53
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I get people's pain, I too have had MORE than my share of absolutely ridiculous things for a trailer at this price point.

I do have to point out that although what's been discussed on this thread is unconscionable, if you really want your jaw to be 10' or more behind you and take an hour to pull back into place, use the search feature this forum provides. If you do, you will find nearly 2 DECADES of the same problems over and over and over again (some identical problems for over 15+ years).

Then to add insult to injury, the "improvements" they make so as not to simply make changes, throw in a whole bunch of additional poorly executed and deployed fun and games for the owner at the owner's expense (and let's not even get into the long waits for dealer service or hit or miss dealership service centers). In essence, you are the beta tester of the trailer when you get it. Just what I want to do after plunking down near or over $100k. I agree with janavera, I love the fact that my Airstreams have simple, easy to use awnings. Now they are motorized, don't fully retract, or retract at all, leaks in the plumbing pour right over the awning controller- and that is just one example. The new furnace/water heater with expensive ongoing maint, if the unit even performs as it should...while my Atwood may sound like a few hairdriers when it's on, it's worked flawlessly for well over a decade with little to no additional maintenance. Water heater as well...and now this is the first year with tankless water heaters....we'll just have to see how that shakes out.

I'd have to agree, outside of the cool factor, about the ONLY thing that is going to get Jackson Center's attention is if sales drop off. The it's handbuilt really can only go just so far when one can easily see from this forum alone, the same issues, many identical for well over a decade. That one comment on this thread that suggested service center folks were aware of the poor line work being done, if true, only reinforces these observations found not only on this thread, but the dozens like it on this forum.

I'm really happy to hear a small group of folks ecstatic with their trouble free purchase, but unfortunately if you take me up on doing a search on Airstream quality, you will find that you are in the minority.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:12 AM   #54
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[QUOTE=Suza;2410158]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Oliver trailers are great. Not perfect, mind you, but really great. They also give an excellent factory tour, which we enjoyed very much. Almost bought one ourselves after the tour, back when we were thinking of downsizing our Airstream trailer. Here's hoping you have a great experience. [/QUOTE

Thank you for your positive response; I truly expected negativity We have not taken the Oliver factory tour (we live in the Pacific NW), but the factory tour video is what sold us on an Oliver.

We like the simplicity of the Oliver, with fewer creature comforts than most RVs these days; a trailer that is practical for both on and off grid camping. (This year they are offering a lithium solar package with 340w of roof mounted solar panels, 400ah lithium batteries, and a 3000w inverter). We have chosen no TV antenna and no microwave, which you pay for on most RVs whether you want them or not.

There are trade-offs: Oliver doesn't have the selection of floor plans found in most RVs, with only two models and three floor plans. However, what they do offer is functional and robustly built. Most importantly, Oliver cares about their owners. During the early years of building trailers, Oliver relied on owners as valued meme mold as other makes and models. Oliver has dedicated it's resources to building "better trailers", with input from those who use them. I knbers of their R&D team. These trailers aren't designed and built from the samow we will be pleased with our decision but will continue to admire those beautiful silver Airstreams when we meet them on the road.
They do seem well built and equipped. I'm not a fan of the fibre glass look though. Ok outside I guess but inside, not loving it that much. That being said, tastes are personal.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:12 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPeanut View Post
I think if you check that the Alde Flow is checked on your Alde panel and adjust the mixing valve (lots of discussion about how to do that elsewhere) you will have more hot water than you will ever use.

Due to codes and liability reasons, water heaters are set to deliver non-scalding water. But they are always adjustable. Just like at home you can turn up the thermostat on your hot water heater. After we did that, our water is too hot and I need to turn it down. Ours started at the same lukewarm default. Any competent dealer should have explained adjustment of the valve and they can do it for you if you don’t want to. But it is very simple. Takes less than a minute to turn a knob.


LilPeanut,

I have flow box checked...that was one of the first items in troubleshooting that got addressed.

As far as the mixer valve, I have not only adjusted it endlessly, I actually drained the system and removed it to ensure that there was not a visible issue with the valve itself. Even with the valve set to mix almost zero cold water, we still have the issue. This morning for example, water temp at the controller read 146. This of course was after 10 mins of having the shower boost on level 2. However, water coming out of kitchen sink on the full hot setting, while hot, was not overly hot. In other words, no issue holding the back of my hand under the water stream constantly. At 146, it should have hurt. It was certainly not sanitary. At 140, water should typically burn an adult within 5 seconds. I will purchase a thermometer today and start taking real temps.

In working with Alde, we also ensured there was an air pillow in the tank...no effect. Their tech believes that one of the existing valves in the plumbing (not the mixer valve) may be defective and allowing too much cold to enter into the system? Not sure but we definitely have something amiss per the Alde technician but there is not anything else he can think of that I could troubleshoot on my own.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by dmassey321 View Post
So, every time you want to wash a glass you have to plan ahead 10 mins and hit the shower booster button? If so, the design of the system is extremely faulty. I think there are two gallons or so in the tank. Those two gallons should be kept at temperature until you need them. That’s how any decently designed hot water system works. The booster should need to kick in when your demanding more...like... I don’t know...when you actually want a shower...hence a shower symbol boost button? And, as it relates to stopping heat circulation, in three years with our last coach, we only ever ran the heater twice. We need hot water every single time. Sorry but my head is about to literally pop off! Do any of theses engineers ever consider the customer in their design process?

Please know my frustration is aimed at Airstream/Alde and not at you!

Now that my rant is over, has anyone added a working hot water heater to a Classic with Alde in it? Due to heating, I understand that the Alde can’t be replaced.
You should only need the shower boost for showering. You should have plenty of hot water at either sink without boost, just hot water on (level 1). Level 1 does not turn off the trailer's heat.

Listen, I feel your pain. I have owned my 2019 Classic 30 for almost two years and have never taken a shower in it because I dislike tepid showers. My Airstream has spent a total of 7 months (yes months!) in Airstream service departments.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:45 PM   #57
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Seems like things are even more interesting these days than they were when we bought our 2014 Airstream International 27FB at the end of 2013. It took us two years of frequent service visits to get that trailer the way it should have been when it left the factory. Now that there are more systems and they are more complex, maybe it's taking 3 years to reach that goal.
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Old 09-18-2020, 05:35 AM   #58
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Update on Hot Water Issue...

I purchased a thermometer and have started recording temps. Here we go:

Thursday 7:46 pm
Gas On, 2 Electric Elements On, Shower Boost Level 1
At Controller:
Glycol 137
Water 133
At Kitchen Sink (running water at least 5 mins) 102

Thursday 9:12 pm
Gas On, 2 Electric Elements On, Shower Boost Level 2 (20 mins)
At Controller:
Glycol 172
Water 169
At Kitchen Sink (running water at least 5 mins) 117

Thursday 10:20 pm
Gas On, 2 Electric Elements On, Shower Boost Level 1
At Controller:
Glycol 147
Water 145
At Kitchen Sink (running water at least 5 mins) 109

Friday 5:46 AM
Gas On, 2 Electric Elements On, Shower Boost Level 1
At Controller:
Glycol 147
Water 126
At Kitchen Sink (running water at least 5 mins) 98

As you can see, in these four examples, we never got “sanitary” water temp (140) and the difference between what the controller believes the water temp is and the actual water temp exiting the kitchen sink is way too off (28, 36, 52, 31). I tested the thermometer against our tea kettle (which also has a temperature reading) and it was spot on with the tea kettle. To test at the sink, I ran the water on all hot continuously into a small juice glass and left the thermometer probe in the glass. The temps recorded above represent the highest temp achieved during the 5 mins.

Alde Flow is checked on the controller settings and the hot/cold mixer valve is all to the + side. Additionally, the valve is further to the + side than just the limiting adjustment you can make normally (removed screw and adjusted it much further). Hot water will continue on for quite some time at whatever the current output temp is and it’s livable but having to boil water to sanitize dishes is ridiculous and not something we had to ever do in our last Airstream which had a Dometic Atwood water heater. We really just want that one back. It worked. With that being said, there must be some valve issue or possible the board is bad in some way? Hopefully, AirstreamDFW can figure it out and fix it.
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Old 09-19-2020, 03:56 AM   #59
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Good investigative work. I don't know Airstream DFW. Two Airstream dealers have been unable to solve me problem.
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Old 09-19-2020, 07:40 AM   #60
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I purchased a new 2015 FC30 from Woodland Airstream in Grand Rapids Michigan in July of 2015. They strongly encouraged us to “camp” overnight in their lot before taking the unit home. The only issue was the microwave oven would not pop the popcorn. They replaced it with a better microwave:convection oven. 35,000 miles later, no other “Initial build” quality Issues have cropped up. I hate to think we got the rare “good” Airstream. Perhaps those of us who have had a good experience don’t post enough about it. It should be noted that the 2015 FC has the older, simpler, systems for heating, refrigeration, hot water, manual awnings, manual window blinds, no WiFi booster, etc.
We totally agree, 2015 must have been a good year for Airstreams. We have a squeak in the floor that we don't even think about anymore, the relax awning needs exercised to run smoothly, and I can change out the mixer valve in 5 minutes. We immediately replaced the charger/converter, eventually pulled out the reclining sofa, upgraded the skylights and replaced the Fantastic Fan dome with a more substantial cover, replaced the mattress, replaced the microwave/convection with a microwave, put stronger latches on the drawers, some other minor changes and very few warranty repair items. We would have hit 100,000 miles this year but for covid, it's been coast to coast 5 trips. It does everything well, with minimal fuss and hassle, we schedule an appointment at the factory every year to look at the running gear and we just totally went thru the ProPride hitch. Think we'll keep it for another 100,000
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