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Old 08-21-2021, 06:41 PM   #1
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Aldie , Virginia
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Not a QC thread; but it may become one...

So I traded in my trusty, rusty (well not rusty; though a few spots of filoform) 2011 Serenity 28RB last weekend for a brand new factory ordered 2021 International 25FBT +hatch +solar +50A, and one week into ownership, it's back to the dealer for my first list of "issues," listed from minor to major...

Minor issues (on my 28RB, I would correct all these myself,)
- Ventline vent closure tabs either missing, or wont function
- 001 lock cylinder on driver-side side compartment fell out when unlocking
- 001 lock cylinder on forward storage hatch, driver side, wont function
- kitchen sink front door latch hardware mounting stripped
- AC Vent screws missing
- Bathroom door tight/sticks

Medium issues
- JBL System nonfunctional (no power to head)

Major issues
- 6v hot skin (both 50A lead, and dog bone connector both test 0 ohm on the meter,) at the door and window frames when on power; 1v bleed when on battery
- Door needs to be re-hung; does not permit deadbolt function, and daylight visible (be the trailer level, with or without stabilizers down, and in tow state)
- Zip Dee Awning intermittently fails to fully open or fully close - I had to manually learn how to retract it last night with a storm arriving).


-=-=-=-=-

While 6v isn't major, it's a surprise, especially when you're in bare feet and it's been raining... I'm hoping it's simply the truck umbilical with a bad ground there - else I assume they'll be popping out fuses and testing repetitively to try and narrow it down. I really wish I could have ordered an International with the manual zip-dee awnings... they're simple, and they work - and very self-maintenance friendly....
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Old 08-21-2021, 07:50 PM   #2
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Just curious why you accepted it at delivery? Wasn’t the door issue obvious when you first looked at it?

I’m also interested in the hot skin. How did you discover that was a problem?

What do you think of your eco diesel for towing? I considered one of those briefly before going for the RAM 2500 diesel.
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Old 08-21-2021, 08:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jondrew55 View Post
Just curious why you accepted it at delivery? Wasn’t the door issue obvious when you first looked at it?

I’m also interested in the hot skin. How did you discover that was a problem?

What do you think of your eco diesel for towing? I considered one of those briefly before going for the RAM 2500 diesel.
The door issue was not obvious to me at delivery - call it buyers giddiness? It sounds from the dealer like a straight forward correction; so I am cool with it.

Re the EcoDiesel - loving it -- earlier this year towed 2500 miles to Acadia National Park and home, and averaged 20.5MPG at 60MPH. Outside of towing, I can often get 31MPG at 65MPH...
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Old 08-21-2021, 08:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondrew55 View Post
Just curious why you accepted it at delivery? Wasn’t the door issue obvious when you first looked at it?

I’m also interested in the hot skin. How did you discover that was a problem?

What do you think of your eco diesel for towing? I considered one of those briefly before going for the RAM 2500 diesel.

The hot skin I discovered when returning to the inside, after bringing in the rear and side awnings during a sudden torrential rain/wind storm. I was soaking wet, barefoot, and got a shock (I liken it to the same shock as licking a 9v battery)... when I touched the screen door. On dry days, in shoes, I still liken it not to a shock, but the sudden taste of metal on the tongue.
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Old 08-22-2021, 04:47 AM   #5
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In case anyone is wondering what is Hot Skin, Mike Sokol explains, tests and demonstrates.

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Old 08-22-2021, 09:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanPoulin View Post
So I traded in my trusty, rusty (well not rusty; though a few spots of filoform) 2011 Serenity 28RB last weekend for a brand new factory ordered 2021 International 25FBT +hatch +solar +50A, and one week into ownership, it's back to the dealer for my first list of "issues," listed from minor to major...

Minor issues (on my 28RB, I would correct all these myself,)
- Ventline vent closure tabs either missing, or wont function
- 001 lock cylinder on driver-side side compartment fell out when unlocking
- 001 lock cylinder on forward storage hatch, driver side, wont function
- kitchen sink front door latch hardware mounting stripped
- AC Vent screws missing
- Bathroom door tight/sticks

Medium issues
- JBL System nonfunctional (no power to head)

Major issues
- 6v hot skin (both 50A lead, and dog bone connector both test 0 ohm on the meter,) at the door and window frames when on power; 1v bleed when on battery
- Door needs to be re-hung; does not permit deadbolt function, and daylight visible (be the trailer level, with or without stabilizers down, and in tow state)
- Zip Dee Awning intermittently fails to fully open or fully close - I had to manually learn how to retract it last night with a storm arriving).


-=-=-=-=-

While 6v isn't major, it's a surprise, especially when you're in bare feet and it's been raining... I'm hoping it's simply the truck umbilical with a bad ground there - else I assume they'll be popping out fuses and testing repetitively to try and narrow it down. I really wish I could have ordered an International with the manual zip-dee awnings... they're simple, and they work - and very self-maintenance friendly....
Everything you mentioned reminded why I do not want to sell my 2018 for a larger unit. It took three years to correct minor and major issues. I do not want to endure that insanity again. The service department does not seem to have pride in craftsman ship as they did in days gone by, Sad!
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Old 08-22-2021, 10:13 AM   #7
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It took quite awhile and an expenditure exceeding 50% pf the list price at an independent authorized Airstream repair facility to fix/replace/or whatever the range of issues in both our 2014 31' Classic and our 2015 23D International Serenity. The issues can be boiled down to speed and carelessness and no pride in workmanship.

Our 2013 25Fb International had no issues other than those caused by the gross imcompenece of the local Airstream authorized dealer.

The causal difference was the 2013 was built at 26 units per week, the 2014 at 41 units per week and the 23D at over 50 units per week. See a trend here... the faster the production the lower the quality.

The huge numbers of new employees see their employment as a "job" whereas in the past there was a pride of craftsmanship. Were there issues in the past? Yes, but not to the extent seen in the forums every day now.

Airstream's quality is apparently now reduced to the level of the cheapest SOB on the market and yet they peddle the illusion of quality at grossly inflated prices..
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:23 AM   #8
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Quick update - I stopped by Airstream of Virginia today and although they’ve now had it for a full week, with a promise to have their best electrical guy looking at it as of last Tuesday, the trailer has not had any of the work initiated.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanPoulin View Post
Quick update - I stopped by Airstream of Virginia today and although they’ve now had it for a full week, with a promise to have their best electrical guy looking at it as of last Tuesday, the trailer has not had any of the work initiated.
Imagine that. Why even have an appointment time?
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Old 09-04-2021, 10:03 PM   #10
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We have a 2021 27FB international and we noticed the same issues this past trip with the awning and the bathroom door sticking. We have also had to progressively slam our front door harder and harder to get the deadbolt to latch. Our airstream dealer also can't seem to fix the warranty work correctly so its been intermittently out of the shop since March. Has your dealer said anything about the awning? We found when our toddler would play with the power button and turn it off when out, the awning would fail to roll correctly, but when it was left on, we would have no problems. Not sure if its coincidence or not.

Our overhead cabinet above our sink also partially fell off the wall on the drive home today. Its aggravating how things seem to be thrown together, I dont remember having so many big issues with our 2019 Bambi
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:30 AM   #11
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Back in the 60s, there was a TV show called Westinghouse Playhouse of Stars with Betsey Furness (not sure of the spelling) as a hostess. Her plug was "The quality goes in before the name goes on."

Airstream did NOT put the word AIRSTREAM on the back of our 2015 23D built in September of 2014. That was our first visual cue there would be problems. Colonial supposedly did a PDI on the trailer. There was a huge wad of still attached plastic film that protects the aluminum during the build beside the mattress on the wall. Colonial put on the bedspread... One of the two big window shades was inoperative. It had ½" pleats. They had cheapened the shades to 1" pleats by the time I received the replacement so the other one had to be replaced as well. Main storage drawer would not stay latched. Took some creative wood work including more screws on the slides to cure the issue. Lack of wheel bearing grease created badly scored bearings found after towing the new trailer 2,000 miles from Colonial through London Ontario (CanAm tuned the hitch system) to Paradise, Texas. I replaced all four sets of "off shore" bearings and races with USA made Timken bearing sets. While at Colonial, we installed the 15" Michelin tires on SenDel wheels I had brought with me to replace the stock 14" Goodyear Marathon tires and wheels. The challenge was the curb side front edge of the wheel well was not cut out the same as the street side by about 1.5" so we had to do some metal work. The shower stall wall was separated from the frame.

None of these issues were fatal. After dropping more than half of the purchase price at A&P Vintage Trailer works over the following years, we have a totally customized 23D the way we want it.

There is NO gadget Airstream could offer today that would cause us to change the unit. We did the same upgrade process on our 2014 31' Classic which arrived with a 30 item QC issues list that I knew the selling dealer was too incompetent to fix. They could not even replace the lens on the ceiling lights correctly to preclude them from breaking again.

So the cost of buying a "new" Airstream is the down payment for thousands of dollars the new owner will have to spend at an independent shop where quality in work and materials is their claim to fame.

An example is the extremely cheap plastic catches installed at the factory. When one breaks, the dealer installs a new identical plastic catch that will fail like the first one. After the warranty, they charge many dollars for the item. We replaced all of them with brass ball catches and have never replaced a single one in the years since.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanPoulin View Post
So I traded in my trusty, rusty (well not rusty; though a few spots of filoform) 2011 Serenity 28RB last weekend for a brand new factory ordered 2021 International 25FBT +hatch +solar +50A, and one week into ownership, it's back to the dealer for my first list of "issues," listed from minor to major...

Minor issues (on my 28RB, I would correct all these myself,)
- Ventline vent closure tabs either missing, or wont function
- 001 lock cylinder on driver-side side compartment fell out when unlocking
- 001 lock cylinder on forward storage hatch, driver side, wont function
- kitchen sink front door latch hardware mounting stripped
- AC Vent screws missing
- Bathroom door tight/sticks

Medium issues
- JBL System nonfunctional (no power to head)

Major issues
- 6v hot skin (both 50A lead, and dog bone connector both test 0 ohm on the meter,) at the door and window frames when on power; 1v bleed when on battery
- Door needs to be re-hung; does not permit deadbolt function, and daylight visible (be the trailer level, with or without stabilizers down, and in tow state)
- Zip Dee Awning intermittently fails to fully open or fully close - I had to manually learn how to retract it last night with a storm arriving).


-=-=-=-=-

While 6v isn't major, it's a surprise, especially when you're in bare feet and it's been raining... I'm hoping it's simply the truck umbilical with a bad ground there - else I assume they'll be popping out fuses and testing repetitively to try and narrow it down. I really wish I could have ordered an International with the manual zip-dee awnings... they're simple, and they work - and very self-maintenance friendly....
Hi IanPoulin and Dmvp,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issues you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information, email and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can learn more and share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customersupport@airstream.com

Thank you.*
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:32 PM   #13
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A quick update --

After a brief call with the folks at Airstream of Virginia, I want to give kudos to their staff for jumping into and repairing fairly quickly.

First though, I was off on my voltmeter by a factor -- it wasn't a 6v hot skin, but rather a 40-50v. The tech came out when I was leaving with the repaired work to explain he had a fairly big jolt himself when testing. Apparently a ground wire for the inverter had been plugged into the + bus bar...

Leaving from the dealership, my "list" has shrunk to 2(3(4?)) items --

JBL sound system still doesn't work (parts are on order)
Door still doesn't close (or engage deadbolt) be the trailer hooked up for towing, at campsite level, or at campsite level and stabilizers down.

A new observation, the first use of the furnace set the carbon monoxide alarm off at 2:30am the other night - but from airforums searches, this may be from heating off oils used in the furnace manufacture. Still though, even if that's it, having to leave it to the owner, asleep, to find out is not the best of experiences...

Ian
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Old 09-09-2021, 06:14 AM   #14
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><><><><"Apparently a ground wire for the inverter had been plugged into the + bus bar..."


Curious George?...Just whom was responsible for that?
That sounds improbable...think poofed inverter.
Guess anyone?

Bob
🇺🇸
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:29 AM   #15
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And so my list of warranty work is growing again!

- I have <another> hot skin issue! This time, I am getting shocks if I touch the metal components to the dump valves. fun!
- The rear 'gas strut' of the ZipDee power awning has failed, causing the shade to roll over the end of the tube on retraction if I do not manually keep significant outward pressure on the awning arm during retrieval.
- The door _still_ isn't closing correctly. The other night I was sitting on the long couch when something caught my eye. With a closed door, a mouse got through the cracks, crept into the trailer, saw me, and then immediately exited through the same door crack it came through. This same crack is now a superhighway for stinkbugs looking to get inside somewhere for the winter. I am perfectly level side to side, front to back, and stabilizers are <up>.
- The same door issue, the deadbolt does not operate.

This is on top of the original list, which included the two door issues, reported as corrected at the dealership; and the JBL audio system inoperable, "on order from airstream" for a new system head.

All said, if I were offered my 2011 International Serenity 28RBQ back, I'd keep this unit.
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:46 AM   #16
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Ian

Bad deal but please post findings and correction for hot skin that is one to learn about.

Gary
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Old 11-07-2021, 06:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Ian

Bad deal but please post findings and correction for hot skin that is one to learn about.

Gary
I'll post re the lower hit skin issue as soon as I know. While I had an appointment for service two weeks ago, AofVa haven't yet started work (unsure as to why,).

For the upper hot skin issue, the tech told me someone had plugged the inverter ground into the positive bus bar... full on 60v shocks. He found it as the fuse for the inverter would buzz madly when it was engaged. I never had used it yet, so had not heard the issue.

Ian
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Old 12-11-2021, 09:24 AM   #18
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Quality

Jeez! We never had these types of problems with our new 2015 FC 27 FBT. Now, with a 2023 International on order, I’m at least beginning to wonder if I should cancel and just loose my deposit. Sad situation! Perhaps disappointing is a better word.
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Old 12-16-2021, 07:41 AM   #19
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Jeez! We never had these types of problems with our new 2015 FC 27 FBT. Now, with a 2023 International on order, I’m at least beginning to wonder if I should cancel and just loose my deposit. Sad situation! Perhaps disappointing is a better word.
Let me just say this Kilo -- Even with the different systems and build QC issues, I would keep my 2021 over my 2011 without hesitation. The quality of life updates to the trailer in the decade are significant.

Ian
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Old 12-16-2021, 08:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by IanPoulin View Post
Let me just say this Kilo -- Even with the different systems and build QC issues, I would keep my 2021 over my 2011 without hesitation. The quality of life updates to the trailer in the decade are significant.

Ian
Very interesting comment. Could you please list the “quality of life” upgrades? Thanks……
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