How does the refrigerator work if no shore power?

[englewoodfl]

Looked in the manual - no help. We have a 2023 International 23FBT with 3 factory solar panels. Batteries are stock AGM. We haven't been able to test frig/freezer scenarios. I assume the 12V switch by the door needs to be on. Truck is a 2023 F150.



When you're towing will the frig/freezer just run off the 7-way? Panels if there's good sunlight and/or batteries?


When it's sitting without shore power what's going to happen? Will the batteries get damaged by going to low (past ~ 50%)?


Etc., etc...

[malligator]

If you have solar you have four potential sources of power--solar, shore (through the converter), TV, and batteries. They're all interconnected on the 12V system and distributed via the power and negative buses (and distribution fuse panel).

There's no computer or other logic device deciding which is supplying power. It all comes down to which can best supply the power when it's needed. That'll usually be shore when plugged in. Then probably solar on a good sunny day. TV if neither of those are available.

At night when the batteries are all you have...well...that's what you get. That's why you have them. Your battery cutoff switch, which, yes, has to be on, will disconnect the battery when it hits low voltage. I think that's around 10.5V which would be almost empty for AGM batteries. I'd recommend keeping track and not letting your AGM's get much below 12V.

[Thiss]

I was reading the owner’s manual the other day, and the disconnect switch will automatically engage in low battery levels to save from damage. The batteries continue to charge from solar regardless of the disconnect switch.

Also, night mode on the fridge saves power while boondocking.

[Trekers]

Your 3 panels should be plenty to maintain your fridge and batteries unless you go days and days without any sun. Putting the fridge on night mode when it won't be opened for a while, either overnight or during a long travel day, will help, too.

[Mollysdad]

Wise boonrockers always have a generator.

[Bill M.]

How does the fridge work if no shore power?

It draws off the batteries.

And note: It is possible to draw AGM's so low that some power converters will not sense them and re charge them when you do get back on power. Maybe the new trailers prevent that? The old ones do not.

I do not know if driving the truck provides enough power through the 7 pin to keep up with the fridge or not. I know mine most likely would not.

If I had a electric only fridge I would add a small DC to DC converter to get some charge while towing and would carry a generator counting on recharging the batteries almost every boon docking day. I would get one big enough to run the coffee pot or microwave too. And you will need the generator if you need to run the gas furnace. How much you have to charge depends upon how much solar you have and how much sun you are getting. But you will not get through more than a couple of days of rain with AGM's. If you just do not want a generator then consider switching to lithium to get a good bit longer run time.

We traveled without a generator for a long while. Looking back at some of the really uncomfortable times I am sorry we did not buy the generator the day we bought the camper. 4 days in a 34 degree rain at Jasper and 3 day rain around 40 degrees in Chicken, Alaska stand out. And after I got the generator I did not run it enough at first and ended up buying batteries during a 2 week stay in Gros Venture, mostly in the rain. I have a CPAP. Probably does not draw as much as the electric fridge. But..it needs power when it needs it. Like the fridge. Not just when you have an excess. In my power management scheme I like knowing that I can recharge if I run out. I like being able to turn a light on if it is dark. And to run a fan if it is hot. And to make a K cup of coffee when I have to recharge anyway.

[englewoodfl]

We're going to have 3 days outside Ely, MN where no shore is available - our friends live it the top end of a ancient rock glacier. There driveway is incredibly steep and windy.


We'll give it a try, drive into town, and do a daily monitor of the battery voltage.

[coasttocoast]

My thinking is that you are going to spend a lot of time watching your batteries and worrying about their state of charge, and I think you are going to run them low given the amount of amp hours the fridge and freezer draws. And you are going to run lights, a water pump, the inverter, etc. Sky conditions will dictate the amount of solar you collect. A Honda 1000 runs very quietly and will keep your batteries charged. Just get a 12 gauge 50 foot extension cord and you probably won’t even notice it. Want more power and run time? Get a Honda 2000. If you want to free yourself and not worry about it, set yourself up with at least 600 amp hours of lithium and 600 watts of solar. And even with that, I would still take the Honda 1000. Maybe look at solar generators. I can easily go for 3 days off grid with my Goal Zero 6000x. If you were to add 600 watts of solar to this battery, you could potentially go for days, weeks or months if you balance the input with the output.

[SeaJim]

As others have indicated, there are a lot of variables that influence how long you can camp off shore power. The standard Airstream battery gauge is not helpful. If you install a good battery monitor like a Victron SmartShunt you will know *accurately* the state of charge of your batteries, but most important, you can use it to measure how much different appliances / devices draw when in use. Then you can allocate power based on data instead of guessing and worrying. Best item I've found for getting secure about power use while dry camping.

[Life is a Highway]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Wise boonrockers always have a generator.

With an electric fridge it seems all should have at min 2 battle borns in there without a full lithium and converter upgrade.

Yes a small gen we carry ours always! Even a Jackery 2000 cam get you through a overnight.

[Toasterlife]

My sympathy, as people who LOVE national parks hardly any of which have shore power I can not imagine buying a trailer that with a fridge that does not run on propane as an alternative. Yes you can cary a generator and we do, but the nicer places have limited generator hours so to be a good neighbor we try not to use ours unless absolutely needed and only then for the shortest time possible. if you plan to visit lots of National Parks and Monuments I would seriously look into retrofitting a fridge that will run on propane, and also a gas oven if you do not have one. It will give you a lot more flexibility. We hardly ever stay in sites with power unless it is an overnight at a commercial site just passing through. We like power at our site but rarely feel that the convenience of power at the site overrides the joy of waking up in the amazing National Parks.

[Larry1492]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

Looked in the manual - no help. We have a 2023 International 23FBT with 3 factory solar panels. Batteries are stock AGM. We haven't been able to test frig/freezer scenarios. I assume the 12V switch by the door needs to be on. Truck is a 2023 F150.



When you're towing will the frig/freezer just run off the 7-way? Panels if there's good sunlight and/or batteries?


When it's sitting without shore power what's going to happen? Will the batteries get damaged by going to low (past ~ 50%)?


Etc., etc...

I have the same rig and refrigerator. I did swap out the agm batteries for lithium. That said the 300 watt factory solar makes enough power to recharge the batteries every day. I have not had to use it yet but I do carry a Honda 1000 incase the solar falls short. The batteries will charge from two vehicle, it’s not fast.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by Toasterlife

My sympathy, as people who LOVE national parks hardly any of which have shore power I can not imagine buying a trailer that with a fridge that does not run on propane as an alternative. Yes you can cary a generator and we do, but the nicer places have limited generator hours so to be a good neighbor we try not to use ours unless absolutely needed and only then for the shortest time possible. if you plan to visit lots of National Parks and Monuments I would seriously look into retrofitting a fridge that will run on propane, and also a gas oven if you do not have one. It will give you a lot more flexibility. We hardly ever stay in sites with power unless it is an overnight at a commercial site just passing through. We like power at our site but rarely feel that the convenience of power at the site overrides the joy of waking up in the amazing National Parks.

Good luck finding a propane fridge. Or traditional 6 gallon water heater. The world (and industry) has moved on.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by malligator

Good luck finding a propane fridge. Or traditional 6 gallon water heater. The world (and industry) has moved on.

Have you heard of a little company called “Amazon”…??

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=6+gallon+...l_84v1zetnbv_e

[richard5933]

Propane tanked water heater are and likely will continue to be available. The move to tankless heaters is probably as much to do with marketing as with any efficiency.

Propane refrigerators, on the other hand, are a different story. Apparently there are tightening regulations in Europe on the chemistry used to turn heat into cold - the ammonia and the other chemical agents involved - to the point that the industrial is not going to be sustainable for much longer. My understanding is that this it behind the push to switch to all-electric refrigerators on RVs.

I don't see this going backwards. If another chemistry were available to continue making these I'm sure they would be doing so, since a lot of people like the propane fridge option.

My thought is that we all should prepare to eventually upgrade out battery systems to accommodate all-electric refrigerators in the coming years as our propane units age out.

[englewoodfl]

I think we'll move on and consider a solar setup with batteries in the track box and big solar panels. Don't have time right now but I'll look into that when we get back. Would have helped with Ian since we were ~a week w/o power.

[Larry1492]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

I think we'll move on and consider a solar setup with batteries in the track box and big solar panels. Don't have time right now but I'll look into that when we get back. Would have helped with Ian since we were ~a week w/o power.

If you have personal experience with a propane refrigerator you are not missing anything. They cool very slowly, don’t work well in warm weather, tend to be humid inside (vegetables don’t last that long) and have freezers that don’t freeze. The burner likes to go out when towing and horribly inefficient. Once you get some experience managing power and actually figure out how much battery you need you will be much happier.

The two manufacturers or propane refrigerators are discontinuing production so down the road all rv’s will have electric refrigerators.

[Larry1492]

Had gas refrigerators in three different rigs over ten years and 12 volt refrigerators in boats for about twenty years. My Airstream has been sitting in the driveway unplugged for a week with the refrigerator running, factory solar has kept everything charged and it has not been a great weather week here. I’m sold on the technology.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by Larry1492

If you have personal experience with a propane refrigerator you are not missing anything. They cool very slowly, don’t work well in warm weather, tend to be humid inside (vegetables don’t last that long) and have freezers that don’t freeze. The burner likes to go out when towing and horribly inefficient. Once you get some experience managing power and actually figure out how much battery you need you will be much happier.

The two manufacturers or propane refrigerators are discontinuing production so down the road all rv’s will have electric refrigerators.

NONE of that is the case with mine. The freezer makes ice cubes. The lower area stays around 40 degrees…. and this is Texas.

The biggest problem we had early in our ownership was the ventilation area behind the unit (inside the louvered side-doors) was improperly insalled. There must be a “chimney” effect for these things to work well. In many installation the refrigerator is installed with Excess room and space back there…and no “rise” or “chimney” effect occurs.
The little fans sucking air from the condenser-fins are not very effective unless there is no good rise in air-flow from below.

The Dometic installation instructions are almost universally ignored by the trailer makers.

If you do not have a roof vent…you should have a “baffle” installed with a maximum of 1” between the baffle box and the condenser tubes. (this creates the chimney)

The oven flue should be vented outside the baffle (unlike most I’ve see which simply allows the hot air from the oven to exit/dissipate in the immediate area of the upper condenser-fins.)

https://www.dometic.com/assets/42/40/3315546_74240.pdf

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Propane tanked water heater are and likely will continue to be available. The move to tankless heaters is probably as much to do with marketing as with any efficiency.

Propane refrigerators, on the other hand, are a different story. Apparently there are tightening regulations in Europe on the chemistry used to turn heat into cold - the ammonia and the other chemical agents involved - to the point that the industrial is not going to be sustainable for much longer. My understanding is that this it behind the push to switch to all-electric refrigerators on RVs.

I don't see this going backwards. If another chemistry were available to continue making these I'm sure they would be doing so, since a lot of people like the propane fridge option.

My thought is that we all should prepare to eventually upgrade out battery systems to accommodate all-electric refrigerators in the coming years as our propane units age out.

Can you point us to where it is stated that Absorption (ammonia) refers are being phased out? RVLife (of which this forum is a community member) has articles that says that is NOT correct…that Dometic and Norcold are making them as fast as they can and plan to continue.
Who/What/Where/Why …. is it being predicted they arfe being phased out?