Electric Refrigerators on New Models

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

Interesting.

There are some pros and cons to the different types of refrigrators.

https://www.brighthubengineering.com...ration-system/

Interesting article. I think it applies mainly toward industrial applications rather than RVing since it refers to the heat source of absorption refrigeration as being a "boiler". It also talks about losses due to leakage in compressor refrigeration which is not really an issue in residential and RV usage.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Interesting article. I think it applies mainly toward industrial applications rather than RVing since it refers to the heat source of absorption refrigeration as being a "boiler". It also talks about losses due to leakage in compressor refrigeration which is not really an issue in residential and RV usage.

Hi

Yup, as soon as you hit the term "waste heat" it becomes pretty apparent that they are selling systems to industrial users and not RV folks. If the energy is free ( = it's a waste byproduct ) then it really doesn't matter how efficient the ammonia (or whatever their magic goop is ) does. It's still cheaper to use the waste than to do it another way.

Bob

[DutchB]

We have had our 2021 GT 27' with electric fridge for a year. No issues with temp or performance. We have the factory solar. The fridge has been running full time. It is in a desert location and we left the fridge running during the winter too. I winterized the plumbing but let the batteries/solar continue to run the fridge. No issues.

Now I am seeing ice build up in the freezer so I will need to defrost it. Anyone else seeing this?

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by DutchB

We have had our 2021 GT 27' with electric fridge for a year. No issues with temp or performance. We have the factory solar. The fridge has been running full time. It is in a desert location and we left the fridge running during the winter too. I winterized the plumbing but let the batteries/solar continue to run the fridge. No issues.

Now I am seeing ice build up in the freezer so I will need to defrost it. Anyone else seeing this?

You say desert so I assume it's running in significantly less humidity than our norm here in Fl of 75% - 100%. I think that's is part of the problem. We get frost, then a block of ice on the fridge coils so that reduces the efficiency a lot.

[Wayne&Sam]

You'd see the same thing on your home refrigerator if it didn't have a defrost cycle. Adding that in an RV would add a lot of power draw.

[Susie Q]

Our Bambi is equipped with a 12v Novacool, and it has worked fine. Not particularly taxing on the battery even when boondocking for a day or two (we do have solar). No need for a generator and we try to keep things simple. Good luck!

[Susie Q]

Our 2021 Bambi has a 12v Novacool, which has worked fine off the batteries and solar. Of course its great when we hook up to regular AC power too!


Good luck!

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by Susie Q

Our Bambi is equipped with a 12v Novacool, and it has worked fine. Not particularly taxing on the battery even when boondocking for a day or two (we do have solar). No need for a generator and we try to keep things simple. Good luck!

Question: how much solar do you have? Thanks……

[BobBozeman]

We upgraded to a GE 12V fridge in our 2000 19' Bambi earlier this year. Two weeks ago while dry camping in Nebraska the temps hit 100F and the fridge failed to maintain adequate cooling.


The fridge's controller was sensing a high compressor temp and shutting down the compressor. Adding a temporary fan to increase air flow behind the unit solved the problem for the remainder of the trip.


Upon returning home we installed a 92mm (computer) exhaust fan in the upper left hand corner of the fridge's cabinet. We expect this solution will also reduce the unit's daily power consumption.

For what it's worth, our camper has 300W of solar on the roof, a 170A-h lithium battery, and a 2400W Yamaha generator. I believe this is the minimum charging capacity needed for extended dry camping with our setup.

[panamerican]

I think between 300 and 400 watts would be fine, provided you actually are able to park in a spot that has decent sun exposure. Totally agree with BobBozeman

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Energy is energy regardless of coming from a flame or electricity. Either way you are using up a lot of *something* running an absorption fridge. It's a very inefficient process.

Bob

Yes and no.

Yes energy is energy, but my current absorption fridge, I start to run out of power in about 2 weeks and still have more than ample LP to continue and this is also running lights, pump, radio, etc.

This cannot be said for a 12v compressor fridge setup without significant upgrades, and even then, won't come anywhere close to 2 weeks before needing a top off..sure ample solar and lithium batteries will take you more than 3-4 days, but nowhere near 2 weeks as I can easily do today, so the 12v compressor fridge, though faster cooling and more space, will without question consume far more power when off the grid.

Power use aside, as I said earlier, there are rumors that AS is installing the 12v fridges in the same manner they are installing the baraldi stove vents, which negates many of the benefits of the 12v fridge and could also lead to more power consumption than the fridge might consume if vented properly.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by panamerican

Yes and no.

Power use aside, as I said earlier, there are rumors that AS is installing the 12v fridges in the same manner they are installing the baraldi stove vents, which negates many of the benefits of the 12v fridge and could also lead to more power consumption than the fridge might consume if vented properly.

Page 3 of this thread has photos of my fridge out and the space it fits into.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f42...-226095-3.html

It is vented at the bottom (which has a corresponding vent hole in the kick board and appears to be vented thru the roof. The condenser fan blows across the bottom of the coils in an upward direction and there is a a thin sheet of plywood in the back that I assume guides that airflow to the roof vent.

I don't have Nova Kool's installation manual, but it appears to be installed in an appropriate way. Nova Kool is sending me some replacement parts (fan, thermostat and thermostat resister), but I'm coming to the conclusion the fridge's performance is limited in extremely hot, humid conditions. Once the internal coils freeze up in the fridge part from humidity, the efficiency gets worse.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Page 3 of this thread has photos of my fridge out and the space it fits into.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f42...-226095-3.html

It is vented at the bottom (which has a corresponding vent hole in the kick board and appears to be vented thru the roof. The condenser fan blows across the bottom of the coils in an upward direction and there is a a thin sheet of plywood in the back that I assume guides that airflow to the roof vent.

I don't have Nova Kool's installation manual, but it appears to be installed in an appropriate way. Nova Kool is sending me some replacement parts (fan, thermostat and thermostat resister), but I'm coming to the conclusion the fridge's performance is limited in extremely hot, humid conditions. Once the internal coils freeze up in the fridge part from humidity, the efficiency gets worse.

That's great, but it **appears** not to be consistent:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...on-163027.html

Not suggesting there are not other issues causing poor performance, but Airsteam has been known to not follow manufac installation instructions in the past. Pahaska's post is one and the barrage of Baraldi vent issues was the second.

As much as I enjoy the problem free use of my evap fridge, I do put a 165F halon extinguisher in the compartment when static. So, I say these things not as an anti 12v person, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say I had some concerns about the 12v compressor fridge as it's currently installed (in terms of power, etc and Pahaska's post).

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by panamerican

That's great, but it **appears** not to be consistent:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...on-163027.html

It's consistent in my sample of 1

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Energy is energy regardless of coming from a flame or electricity. Either way you are using up a lot of *something* running an absorption fridge. It's a very inefficient process.

Bob

Also not sure I agree with this. For sure energy is being used in both cases but maybe an absorption technology uses less BTU’s while on propane than a 12v electric technology uses. I don’t care enough to do that research.

This is because my point was not in the context of global energy supplies, my point was that in the context of off grid camping (I.e. unplugged) an all electric fridge is a very inefficient use of available energy. Panamerica nailed the scenario.

So, to unconditionally parrot the marketing hype that electric only fridges are unconditionally more efficient than propane is - at the least - misleading.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

It's consistent in my sample of 1

True, but with yours and Pahaska, we have a 50% hit rate, which by any measure would be considered a failing grade....and we have a number of folks with cooling complaints and a number without, which seems to match the unscientific observation.

...and all due respect, appears installed correctly and installed correctly can be two different things. Clearly, Pahaska's was not installed anywhere near correctly, by fact.

[mythbuster88]

Nothing worse than a beautiful camp site ruined by a nearby generator running all day.

[Eric 26 Argo]

We have a 12V compressor fridge and it works great! The energy required to cool the box is the same no matter how you choose to do it. With out getting into the question of efficiency, the question really is how do you want to store energy. Batteries or LNG. With batteries you can use solar to top up in the days (clean and quiet) or a generator for a couple of hours (noisy and still needs liquid fuel) With propane you get longer run time but you will have to take the tank off at some point and refill.

[jondrew55]

I did not measure the inlet and outlet vents. However, since my photos do include a tape measure, I was able to estimate the inlet (bottom) to be 16"x4"= 64 in^2 and the bottom to be 20"x4" = 80^2. Both numbers exceed the 60in^2 in the installation manual. And those numbers are for convection ventilation. The manual further goes on to say that in circumstances where it is difficult or impossible to provide adequate ventilation, a circulation fan for the coils should be added. My fridge also has that. I'd say Airstream has learned something in the 3 years between Pashaka's Interstate and my GT.


'

Originally Posted by panamerican

That's great, but it **appears** not to be consistent:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...on-163027.html

Not suggesting there are not other issues causing poor performance, but Airsteam has been known to not follow manufac installation instructions in the past. Pahaska's post is one and the barrage of Baraldi vent issues was the second.

As much as I enjoy the problem free use of my evap fridge, I do put a 165F halon extinguisher in the compartment when static. So, I say these things not as an anti 12v person, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say I had some concerns about the 12v compressor fridge as it's currently installed (in terms of power, etc and Pahaska's post).

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

I'd say Airstream has learned something in the 3 years between Pashaka's Interstate and my GT.


'

Guess we'll just have to wonder why so many of these are not cooling properly then....but no, without meaning to sound snarky, I don't feel Airstream really learns much of anything given the long list of issues that have traversed decades. I read here they have a dedicated tech that does front body separation repairs because apparently Airstream never learned how to solve the problem on the line before sealing up the body. Been an issue for at least a decade as far as I can tell. Baraldi, for at least 10 years folks have complained about these only to find out they were not installed per spec.

So you'll have to excuse my skepticism, given AS appears to have thrown these in without a lot of thought to power needs and operation. It's great yours works and you're in great place, not all are, and given their track record, hard to think otherwise.