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robwok · 11-30-2011, 09:27 AM

Amazing work, and even more amazing you're taking the time to show it off so consistently to entertain and educate us.

I am curious about your interior coatings. The ceramic stuff seems like magic. I almost wish my AS needed a shell off. Does the ceramic coating stay flexible over time? I would be afraid that if not, a random lean on the side would cause it to pop off on the inside. Then there's the foam. Andy from CA indicated that early tests with foam - especially in dometic fridges had massive failures. The foam would get brittle, and road vibrations reduced it to a powder. My guess is that the foam got extremely hot and off gassed any flex agents inside. The ceramic coating should prevent the heat from getting to that point, and the foam should stay solid, as well as continue to push against the ceramic, and provide a air tight seal, so essentially keeping any flex agents in the ceramic coating. So, hopefully the 2 products help each other live longer, whereas by themselves, they may not. I'm rambling here, but do you have any thoughts on the potential of these products to break down, and why do you think they won't?

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wabbiteer

Seeing how I really dislike being cold and live in Minnesota I am s'mitten with a vested, parka'd and maybe g'loving interest in foam insulation - and my shell is, at the moment, needing instullation

A few questions... You had provisions for 1,200 board-feet of foam (four 602 kits) so my questions are...

1) How much did you actually have to use for the whole interior, and what was expended on one/both endcap sections - or what did it take to finish the walls/ceiling - or how far did the first box of 602 stretch?

2) Since you sprayed it yourself you might know - how far could a single box stretch doing a single fast pass on all the ceiling - sidewalls? Just your best guestimate if the results we see two, or three passes with the sprayer?

3) Did having the HSC-1000 on give the foam some extra loft by retarding the foam-reaction heat loss?

4) You using a guitar-string harp or bow saw or similar to trim the flats? How you accomplishing the concavities? Is the bonding on the face of the ribs solvent washed away or will you fire up the 3M abrasive biscuits and the die-grinder?

I used some 1/2 foam board cut into 1" squares and then glued in a stack of four to equal 2" thick. I glued these at random locations on the end caps and used them as a depth gauge for spraying the foam.

Any excess on the endcaps can be reduced with a grinder / wire wheel / flapper disk etc...

The foam cuts really easily and the act of cutting everything flush will clean the rib face as well. This is why i did not coat the rib face with hsc-1000 until I had everything cut flush as it would be scraped off.

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robwok

Amazing work, and even more amazing you're taking the time to show it off so consistently to entertain and educate us.

I am curious about your interior coatings. The ceramic stuff seems like magic. I almost wish my AS needed a shell off. Does the ceramic coating stay flexible over time? I would be afraid that if not, a random lean on the side would cause it to pop off on the inside. Then there's the foam. Andy from CA indicated that early tests with foam - especially in dometic fridges had massive failures. The foam would get brittle, and road vibrations reduced it to a powder. My guess is that the foam got extremely hot and off gassed any flex agents inside. The ceramic coating should prevent the heat from getting to that point, and the foam should stay solid, as well as continue to push against the ceramic, and provide a air tight seal, so essentially keeping any flex agents in the ceramic coating. So, hopefully the 2 products help each other live longer, whereas by themselves, they may not. I'm rambling here, but do you have any thoughts on the potential of these products to break down, and why do you think they won't?

Thanks!

Think of the ceramic as a thick paint, and it will have some flex when cured.

Having build a number of aluminum skinned mobile medical clinics ( think mri trucks ) I have never seen a failure of spray foam in motion.

How many reformulation back were those tests? There were some early foams that were fairly unstable and very flammable as well...

No insulation is perfect.. but ill be dammed if I ever put the pink sponge in anything I build, not a big fan of airborn fibers, but that is just my opinion.

Wabbiteer · 11-30-2011, 10:06 AM

Very tempting - I was hoping to avoid molesting the wiring harness.

My fears of long term moisture intrusion gets lessened thinking about the foams' boundary layer film action adding to layered protection. I guess I am 2/3rds convinced on going this route.

Looking forward to your next hundred or so posts

Oh, woe is me. I am coveting spray foam, excuse a mild rant mode for a minute. Guess I really didn't need (pick two) that set of Michelin ruck tires or get the 140k miles F150 spark plugs changed by a dealer, upgrade snow thrower, iPhone and a years' service contract, 24V inverter & batteries, or the... Rant over, resuming normal programming.

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 11:52 AM

So just general screwing around I coated half of a 200w bulb in the HSC-1000 about 1/32 thick and let it cure. I can now let it rest in my hand while it runs. It feels just warm where coated. The bare glass will burn the crap out of you. Very cool stuff...

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 01:39 PM

Foam saw

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 04:04 PM

So it's 53f outside and 70f inside with the heat from a 200w bulb and no gaskets in the windows or door. I like it!

3Ms75Argosy · 11-30-2011, 04:21 PM

You rock on so many levels! How much was the foam? Can anyone buy it, or do you need some hvac cert to buy it? I'm assuming you use a compressor with the spray gun, or is it compressed with gas already? Where did you buy the ceramic stuff / foam?
Same vendors?

I've really wanted to do this (and will now!) ... thank you for showing its not too hard to work with these materials...
Marc

Darkspeed · 11-30-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy

You rock on so many levels! How much was the foam? Can anyone buy it, or do you need some hvac cert to buy it? I'm assuming you use a compressor with the spray gun, or is it compressed with gas already? Where did you buy the ceramic stuff / foam?
Same vendors?

I've really wanted to do this (and will now!) ... thank you for showing its not too hard to work with these materials...
Marc

Thanks,

Ok HSC-1000 ceramic , 10gallons at 45$ per - HSC® 1500

Spray foam - two 602 kits $1409 delivered - https://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/prod...hk,1/Itemid,1/

The foam is in pressurized containers - look like bbq cylinders - anyone can buy it

truckasaurus · 11-30-2011, 05:10 PM

I'm keen on trying this stuff too; I don't even want to think what it'll cost in Canada!

Sneakinup · 12-01-2011, 07:12 AM

Amazing job you are doing!

Dark,

Just out of curiosity, and if it isn't too personal...

Do you have a budget on this project?
How much (aside from the minimum wage you pay yourself for labor) do you have in to this trailer?
And lastly... Will you be using this trailer for personal use, or to rendezvous with Skylab, or to go "where no Airstream has gone before?"

Again, amazing work. I may be up in Z-hills in a week or so on business, would love to see it in person one day.

IndyAnne · 12-01-2011, 10:39 AM

An affirmation of the foam -- my 68 Trade Wind has foam sprayed onto the bottom of the floor, above the belly pan space. I do not know how long it has been there. I had to scrape it off the rear 4 feet or so to rebuild from the infamous rot in that area. The foam on the frame was easier to remove than that on the wooden areas, but it would pop off only with a lot of force, and then in very small intact pieces. The frame that was coated looks like new. The foam is not breaking down that I can see. After I finish replacing the black tank in a new stainless box in the frame, I plan to spray foam over the new rear section (Nyloboard) except for parts that might need to be removed for service (black tank, plumbing traps, wiring, etc). The black tank is insulated with foam board lining the box, and gets heated by a small duct from the furnace if necessary.

The foam you are using looks very sound. It will still be sound for the next generation, at least, IMHO.

Anne

Darkspeed · 12-01-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneakinup

Amazing job you are doing!

Dark,

Just out of curiosity, and if it isn't too personal...

Do you have a budget on this project?
How much (aside from the minimum wage you pay yourself for labor) do you have in to this trailer?
And lastly... Will you be using this trailer for personal use, or to rendezvous with Skylab, or to go "where no Airstream has gone before?"

Again, amazing work. I may be up in Z-hills in a week or so on business, would love to see it in person one day.

Have not really set a budget.
1200 for the trailer
1800 to build the frame
2000 in insulation, paint, etc..
1200 in new aluminum
500 + new fans + new led lights
somewhere around 7k

Will be full time home for a few years..

Sure you can drop by..

Hyperbaric Centers of Florida
5610 6th

Gene · 12-01-2011, 12:13 PM

Foam has improved a lot over the years and some foams were always better than others. Anne affirms that foam used 40+ years ago does not necessarily turn to dust.

The foam to dust myth persists, unfortunately.

Foam and cellulose are changing the residential insulation market and the pink stuff is losing market share. Airstream changes ever so slowly and may catch up in several decades.

Gene

Darkspeed · 12-01-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneakinup

Amazing job you are doing!

Dark,

Just out of curiosity, and if it isn't too personal...

Do you have a budget on this project?
How much (aside from the minimum wage you pay yourself for labor) do you have in to this trailer?
And lastly... Will you be using this trailer for personal use, or to rendezvous with Skylab, or to go "where no Airstream has gone before?"

Again, amazing work. I may be up in Z-hills in a week or so on business, would love to see it in person one day.

Hey do you need a good front and rear endcap??

I was going to use mine as a pattern to do segmented aluminum but once im done you can have them if you need them.

Sneakinup · 12-01-2011, 08:38 PM

I could use the rear end cap (bath area). Thanks. My front one is in good shape and in place. I had to pull the rear one out because it was cracked. The PO cut in to it to try and bang out some dents.

No rush. Whenever you are done with it, let me know and I will pick it up.

Thanks again...

Wabbiteer · 12-04-2011, 03:19 PM

D'arkspe has been AWOL for 96 hours... Was there a terrific spray-foam accident? Did he get annoyed at the barrage for specific details? Who signed his leave pass... I didn't get to ask if someone has dibbs on that $50-off coupon they send with foam purchases, I just want to borrow it a little while

Gene · 12-04-2011, 04:41 PM

Maybe his batteries ran down and his master forgot to recharge him.

Gene

Darkspeed · 12-04-2011, 04:43 PM

Haha.. I was asked to build a fence to block off my " work zone " as we have some students coming here for a class next week. So Iv been in PVC fence hell...

Darkspeed · 12-04-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wabbiteer

D'arkspe has been AWOL for 96 hours... Was there a terrific spray-foam accident? Did he get annoyed at the barrage for specific details? Who signed his leave pass... I didn't get to ask if someone has dibbs on that $50-off coupon they send with foam purchases, I just want to borrow it a little while

Dibbs on.. you got it.. I will send it to you