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Old 02-09-2016, 10:00 AM   #1361
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Originally Posted by RareStream View Post
Moderately easy. The clear RTV is very robust yet easy removed by rolling it. But, it hardly lets go on its own. It was a common trick back in the day to use a dab to keep your hubcaps on yet they were easily removeable.

Just put a dab on two or three tabs...the vents will stay on their own but you can pop them out easily by spinning them first to break the RTV seal.
It is my understanding that the entire exposed surface of the vents rotates, which is how they are adjusted for airflow. It is therefore not possible to grip and rotate the underlying plastic base to free up the RTV bond IMO.

Moosetags is this correct?
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:06 AM   #1362
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When you grip the only exposed area of the vent, it is the outside metal piece with the louvers in it. It is attached to the plastic base piece with the tabs and the rotating plastic piece that closes off the vent with a rivet in the center.

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:05 PM   #1363
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How about folding several pieces of aluminum foil around the hole instead of the tabs? Perhaps some adhesive could be used to hold the foil in place (between the foil and the hole and between each piece of foil)? This would slightly reduce the diameter of each hole and may provide enough friction. I think this could be difficult to do and require some finesse to make the foil not show outside the vent. But I think looking at the tabs as too small may not be the only approach—the hole is too big. There may be something else available that is less flimsy than foil, but also quite thin. Maybe just duct tape (or some other tape) applied around the edges of the hole would work also. Duct tape has rough surface and might provide more friction than a smooth tape.

It could be when a worker cuts the hole, one cuts on the line and another cuts slightly outside the line. Or they use a hole saw with a 5" diameter, but the vent is metric and slightly smaller than 5". There are other possible explanations for why in some trailers there is no problem and in others, problems. The hide your head in the sand response from Airstream is not unusual. They will never assign a bunch of engineers to solve this because they don't have a bunch engineers (that would cost money). Airstream is a cash cow for Thor Industries and they are not going to change that.

If nothing works, I'd decide which way I want to the vent to direct air, screw it in place and forget about it.

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Old 02-09-2016, 01:39 PM   #1364
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If the silicon really does a good job, you will not be able to remove a vent without bending/creasing the ceiling's inner aluminum skin IMO.
Not to be brash, but that is absolutely laughably absurd. There is NO possible way that a few dabs of clear RTV would bend (lol) the interior aluminum skin. It's not JBWeld.

Sorry but I had to lol again...
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:51 PM   #1365
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How about a dab of silicone on the plastic? I not talking gobs. It looks like there's a half inch landing to put it on. I know we're anti silicone but it would be hidden by the directional cover and would hold good enough.

Three dabs for us ... placed at ~ 12, 4, & 8 o'clock. The silicone readily sticks to the aluminum but not the plastic of the vent surround ... just enough to keep the ring attached to the aluminum skin during expansion contraction cycles. I have not needed to remove so far, but think that the effort of using an x-acto blade to remove more than off sets the dropping adjustable vents ...
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:28 PM   #1366
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Originally Posted by RareStream View Post
Not to be brash, but that is absolutely laughably absurd. There is NO possible way that a few dabs of clear RTV would bend (lol) the interior aluminum skin. It's not JBWeld.

Sorry but I had to lol again...
And you are willing to give moosetags a written guaranty of this? Please review the photos in Posts 1331 and 1344, especially the EIGHT tabs which will each be getting the silicon, correct?

I should probably have said "could" instead of "will" -- but under the right set of aligned circumstances, the silicon seal could definitely cause the aluminum to bend/crease as the inner skin is not that tough (when you try to remove a vent):

-- vent fits snugly in ceiling hole to start with -- silicon is for insurance
-- most of the EIGHT plastic tabs fit well, and extra silicon ends up in exactly the right sweet spot where each tab meets the aluminum
-- lack of access to get an exacto blade, utility knife, etc. into the hidden spot to help release the silicon seal [EDIT -- N.B. mefly2]
-- similarly, inability to rotate the vent to break the silicon seal, as the silver cover rotates independent of the plastic flange underneath (as I understand it anyway)
-- remember -- some of the duct openings in the ceiling are probably not near a framing member (rib? ceiling joist?), and therefore the aluminum skin is very flexible here, even with a compound curve

There are so many variables here, including the skill of the person doing the work, that a blanket promise that the vents CAN definitely be removed, without bending the ceiling aluminum, is wishful thinking IMO.

Could the vents possibly be removed if the silicon is used, without bending the ceiling? Yes.

Is this certain? No, in my personal opinion.

And once the aluminum is bent, there is no going back . . .

Good luck moosetags, I am only being conservative and cautious. I hope you will keep us updated.

Peter

PS RareStream, the post in question started out "If the silicon really does a good job" meaning almost by definition that ALL EIGHT tabs on the back of the vent would indeed be welded to the aluminum, in effect.
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:19 PM   #1367
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
And you are willing to give moosetags a written guaranty of this? Please review the photos in Posts 1331 and 1344, especially the EIGHT tabs which will each be getting the silicon, correct?

I should probably have said "could" instead of "will" -- but under the right set of aligned circumstances, the silicon seal could definitely cause the aluminum to bend/crease as the inner skin is not that tough (when you try to remove a vent):

-- vent fits snugly in ceiling hole to start with -- silicon is for insurance
-- most of the EIGHT plastic tabs fit well, and extra silicon ends up in exactly the right sweet spot where each tab meets the aluminum
-- lack of access to get an exacto blade, utility knife, etc. into the hidden spot to help release the silicon seal [EDIT -- N.B. mefly2]
-- similarly, inability to rotate the vent to break the silicon seal, as the silver cover rotates independent of the plastic flange underneath (as I understand it anyway)
-- remember -- some of the duct openings in the ceiling are probably not near a framing member (rib? ceiling joist?), and therefore the aluminum skin is very flexible here, even with a compound curve

There are so many variables here, including the skill of the person doing the work, that a blanket promise that the vents CAN definitely be removed, without bending the ceiling aluminum, is wishful thinking IMO.

Could the vents possibly be removed if the silicon is used, without bending the ceiling? Yes.

Is this certain? No, in my personal opinion.

And once the aluminum is bent, there is no going back . . .

Good luck moosetags, I am only being conservative and cautious. I hope you will keep us updated.

Peter

PS RareStream, the post in question started out "If the silicon really does a good job" meaning almost by definition that ALL EIGHT tabs on the back of the vent would indeed be welded to the aluminum, in effect.



Not knowing the outcome of silicon either, I have to agree that the assumption it would "harm" the aluminum seems to me, could be funny to many of us who are familiar with metal, aluminum, plastics, and now, the issues associated with the problem. This sounds like a good solution...I would certainly try it as was mentioned by Mefly, in the 3 or even 4 locations...no offense intended to those "overly cautious" out there! Also as was mentioned, this stuff literally, "rolls" aside with your finger typically when on a surface, if you need to get it off and start over; it's not Supper Glue. Looking forward to hearing how Lucy fairs if you decide to try it Moostags!
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:50 PM   #1368
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What if you buy a thin vinyl clear hose kind of like a fish tank pump hose; slice it in the middle install it in the circular sealing hole then press fit the vent into the opening.
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:36 AM   #1369
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What if you buy a thin vinyl clear hose kind of like a fish tank pump hose; slice it in the middle install it in the circular sealing hole then press fit the vent into the opening.
I like this idea. I'll see if I can come up with a piece of hose to try this out. I'll report on the outcome.

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Old 02-10-2016, 07:09 PM   #1370
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I like this idea. I'll see if I can come up with a piece of hose to try this out. I'll report on the outcome.

Brian
The wall thickness of the hose will be too thick IMO, as the high points of the "gripper steps" in your eight plastic tabs need to just barely overlap the edge of the ceiling aluminum, I believe.

Still would like to suggest that you try one vent with the Fred Flintstone solution of aluminum foil. Very low tech, no cost really, and it might just work . . .

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Old 02-10-2016, 07:17 PM   #1371
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[snip]
. . . this [silicon] stuff literally, "rolls" aside with your finger typically when on a surface, if you need to get it off and start over . . .
[snip]
No one seems to appreciate that the eight spots where the vertical stepped tabs slip into the ceiling duct opening are totally buried behind the vent assembly after it is installed (as I understand the installation anyway). There is no access to "roll" the silicon off anything. Zero access. No room to get an exacto knife in, either, to slit the silicon to aid in its removal. If the eight tabs are a snug fit in the ceiling hole, and if the silicon fills all the misc. little gaps, and glues the tabs to the ceiling, what good is being able to "roll" the silicon off, if you can't even reach the eight spots to roll it off?

moosetags -- any chance you could actually try some of these suggested fixes soon, and give us some feedback? If my assumptions about the way this vent assembly is arranged and installed are incorrect, your feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:20 AM   #1372
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No one seems to appreciate that the eight spots where the vertical stepped tabs slip into the ceiling duct opening are totally buried behind the vent assembly after it is installed (as I understand the installation anyway). There is no access to "roll" the silicon off anything. Zero access. No room to get an exacto knife in, either, to slit the silicon to aid in its removal. If the eight tabs are a snug fit in the ceiling hole, and if the silicon fills all the misc. little gaps, and glues the tabs to the ceiling, what good is being able to "roll" the silicon off, if you can't even reach the eight spots to roll it off?

moosetags -- any chance you could actually try some of these suggested fixes soon, and give us some feedback? If my assumptions about the way this vent assembly is arranged and installed are incorrect, your feedback would be appreciated.


Thanks,

Peter
As I have looked at only one vent removed while at the dealer here in SD, it seems the silicon could work. Not sure about the zacto knife spacing and the tremendous hassle you have described, as really being that horrific, if it does not. Have you looked at any of these vents closely yourself? From what I saw, the clips slide up through the hole in the aluminum, into the ducting, and catch on the upper aluminum (topside) of the hole. If the ducting to the hole does not quite match, looks like the tabs have nothing to catch for securing all around. Poor design. I hope one of these suggestions helps Moostags...
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:35 AM   #1373
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Thanks gypsydad, just to be clear --

I never doubted the ability of silicon to hold the vent in place, given that in a 5" diameter there are EIGHT points of adhesion.

Still doubting the predictable and easy remove-ability of the vent without damaging the ceiling aluminum inner skin . . .

Only a full-scale model from moosetags will provide an answer at this point IMO.



PS -- I have relied on moosetags' photos and descriptions, and have never seen such an AC vent in person. Oh, and plenty of construction experience . . . and logic . . .
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:43 AM   #1374
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Double-Sided Tape

Small pieces of double-sided tape around the outer ring (mounted horizontally, outboard of the vertical tabs) will cure the dropping cover. There are two types of bonding compounds available from 3M; temporary or permanent.

I suggest you try the temporary compound first which holds well, yet can be removed easily without damaging anything. If the covers continue to drop in hotter climates then the permanent compound will cure the issue as it is rated to 212 degrees: just use 4-6 small squares strategically placed. I use both in my shop regularly for a variety of applications with great success.

Temporary:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Doub.../dp/B00I4D3ZTI

Permanent:
http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Double-.../dp/B00004Z47L
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:23 AM   #1375
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Experiment. Use a dab of silicone on maybe 2 or 3 tabs and assess the difficulty of removal. Go from there.
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:24 AM   #1376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Thanks gypsydad, just to be clear --

I never doubted the ability of silicon to hold the vent in place, given that in a 5" diameter there are EIGHT points of adhesion.

Still doubting the predictable and easy remove-ability of the vent without damaging the ceiling aluminum inner skin . . .

Only a full-scale model from moosetags will provide an answer at this point IMO.



PS -- I have relied on moosetags' photos and descriptions, and have never seen such an AC vent in person. Oh, and plenty of construction experience . . . and logic . . .
Thanks; I also have worked on many different aircraft doing sheet metal (aluminum), ventilation systems, etc., back in the day....however, wife looked at this yesterday, and suggested getting sticky velcrow tape strips, and install under vent flange and around opening and trim. Says problem solved...I'm not going to argue with my wife!
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:33 AM   #1377
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Thanks; I also have worked on many different aircraft doing sheet metal (aluminum), ventilation systems, etc., back in the day....however, wife looked at this yesterday, and suggested getting sticky velcrow tape strips, and install under vent flange and around opening and trim. Says problem solved...I'm not going to argue with my wife!
Will the vent still be adjustable and removable? My impression is that the very outside of the silver cover needs to rotate. If so the Velcro would have to permit this.

Moosetags?
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:01 AM   #1378
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Will the vent still be adjustable and removable? My impression is that the very outside of the silver cover needs to rotate. If so the Velcro would have to permit this.

Moosetags?
I have thought about using some small Velcro tabs with the loop on the ceiling, right next to the opening, and the hook on the little grey ring that contacts the ceiling. This would still allow adjustment of the other two pieces.

My only concern with doing this is that the vent becomes quite warm when the heat pump is running. This could compromise the glue on the back of the Velcro pieces.

Brian
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:21 AM   #1379
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Late to this discussion and just throwing out a wild suggestion...but how about trying a spring to help hold the vents up? Similar to how inner sleeves of recessed can lights are held in place. With enough tension to assist the holding of the tabs but with enough spring to pull the vent down to attach/detach the spring. Just a thought....
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:35 AM   #1380
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I have same issue as Moosetags on our 2015 30' FC. All vents were converted to adjustable and I did the replacement myself. When I took the non-adjustable out I saw the BIG difference in design between the two vents. The non-adjustable are metal tabbed and very hard to remove, the new adjustable are plastic and I could easily install and remove. SO, I put ductape on the circle of the inside skin for each hole, then applied gorilla glue to the tabs on each of the vents. If any fall out I may try loctite red as my next experiment. Really don't plan on taking them out in the future so don't care about removal.

I just looked on Amazon for RVT Sealant and found one that is designed for high heat areas, ie around fireplaces. So, may, if the vents fall again, try this approach.

High Heat Velcro Link:

http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/U...%29/index.html
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