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Old 03-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #781
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For us (two humans and two dogs), the 25 is perfect. To me, the main difference in the 27 is that you can get a lengthwise queen bed- and therefore a true walk around bed. But we wanted twins (as you say you do). We have more storage space than we know what to do with. We chose the rear twin because of the unobstructed access to the rear storage compartment.
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:12 PM   #782
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Hi Moosetags,

Lehmans in Kidron Ohio is a cool place to visit and maybe on your route. They have RV parking. They are a one-of-a kind HUGE Amish store with all sorts of non-electric stuff.

Corning Museum of Glass in Corning NY is an outstanding museum with RV parking also.

Steamtown in Scranton PA is neat if you like old trains. It is pretty tight thru there so would only take in the truck.

Bugs
Thank you for these leads. We're are always looking for exciting things to do while out Airstreaming.

Brian
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #783
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We started out with a new 2005 Safari 25FB. That was Old Lucy, and we spent over 1,300 nights in her and towed her 120,000 miles. In 2013, we downsized to a 2012 Flying Cloud 23FB. That was Little Lucy, and we spent 150 nights in her and towed her 15,000 miles. After almost a year in Little Lucy, we decided that we really preferred the 25FB size and layout.

At that point, we seriously considered all of the Airstream floor plans, along with possibly going to a moho. After due consideration, we decided that the 25FB was the best fit for us, with the 27FB a close second. In either case, we had decided on the twin bed configuration to get the additional outside storage capacity. This is a major plus in my opinion.

We took Delivery of New Lucy in October. Even though we have only spent 60 nights in her, and have towed her 5,000 miles, we are very pleased with our choice.

Brian
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:19 PM   #784
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I have read the 56 pages (!) of this thread with interest as we have narrowed our first AS purchase to a Flying Cloud 27 FB twin or a 25 FB twin (or as I call it based upon very similar layout - the "Mini-27"). If the $9-10K price diff were not a major concern (it is a concern but it's going to spread over a good 10 years I'm guessing) what would you buy if you were us?
It's myself, my wife and a black lab. Age 58-60 very fit active and about to retire. We've only been RVing for one year in a 24ft Jayco bumper to hitch but love it hence the move up so fast.
The 25 is 2 ft longer and the 27 is 4ft longer than our stapled together press board Jayco. We've towed horse trailers for years and will have a new GMC3500HD Duramax (up from our 2004 2500).
We've spent hours inside the two units at NW Airstream in Seattle, watched many walk thru videos and have pored over floor plans. I think I've identified every conceivable physical difference between the two units. It's the effect of the differences that I cannot gauge because I lack the live aboard experience of those using this thread.
It seems to me that it comes down to:
- storage - would the 25 be tight and the 27 that much better? The 25 lacks one hanging bed end closet but it has a long roof line cupboard over one bed to offset? Does it off set? Are the narrower drawers between oven and sink wide enough to store stacked dinner plates? Is the foot of the bed space on the 27 useful to have? The pantry and wardrobe mid cabin in the 27 are twice the size as the 25 - is that needed? The counter between sink and stove top is wider - is that needed? Does the end of counter flip up table on the 25 compensate?
- cooking: the 25FB requires a propane oven swap out for a convection microwave to get a microwave (for $900 ish). Never used convection mic - is it useful? If it's useful would a 27 owner do the conversion too and drop the 0.8 cu ft microwave from the slide out pantry? We don't dry camp (yet, I guess).
- towing and parking: does the 27's 2-ft difference (350 lb unloaded weight diff) make a real difference?
Final non-comparison questions:
- is the front outside storage facing the highway speed water spray watertight. The dealer says AS increased the latches from 1 to 2 and uses a thicker rubber seal to reasons to earlier issues.
- the front outside storage is behind the propane tanks. Can you fit a carry golf bag in the door?
All help is much appreciated.
Oh snap, I better get my replies and rivets up, before anyone notices my posts! Did I say somewhere that in my opinion 25 is the optimum length? That opinion coming from spending 5 years in each, not just sitting in one a for few hours at a dealership....

****Outside storage:
27FB limited to you what can slide between the lp tanks and the front of the trailer. (golf clubs, good luck - 2' ladder was hard enough for me)

25FB side loading, but limited because part of the storage area is being occupied by the converter.

Slight advantage 25FB.... best choice here is the 25FB twin

****Inside storage clothes closets:

27FB double closet in the hall

25FB single closet in hall and shirt closet in the bedroom

advantage 27FB

****Queen bed:
27FB walkaround

25FB semi walkaround

advantage 27FB

****Towing / maneuvering / storage/

Advantage 25FB.

*** Price

Advantage 25FB

You decide.....
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:54 PM   #785
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Oh my 30mins. past post so here is my edit:

***Cooking :
27FB Tiny microwave in the slide out pantry, cute, but not very powerful or convenient to use.

25FB full sized microwave/ convection oven

advantage 25FB
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:37 AM   #786
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When one selects the convection/microwave oven in the 25FB models, the ability to "oven" cook off grid vanishes without having a good sized generator.

When studying the 27FB parts manual, one learns that the pantry/storage stack has two variations, The top third storage cabinet is the same. The lower two thirds cabinet is either all storage or has the small microwave shelf which includes the power outlet for the microwave inside the cabinet.

To change the configuration after the build would be challenging as the kitchen cabinets would have to be removed to get the stack out (in reverse order to their installation) and then reinstalled.
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Old 03-29-2015, 06:22 AM   #787
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Wanted the 27FB because of the extra length. Believe it or not, my dealer went to somewhat great lengths to convince me that the convection oven in the 25FB was far superior and that they've had people literally trade their 27's in on 25's for that convection oven. That's counter intuitive because it looks cheap and it's the one thing that an AS shares with all the box RV's out there. (Well, the entry steps too. Little surprised there).
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:41 AM   #788
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New Lucy has the convection oven/microwave option. We are microwave campers. The gas oven in Old Lucy was turned on about three times in the eight years that we camped in her. We had added a small microwave to Old Lucy, but it was a 600 watt unit that was not up to par for many microwave dinners.

New Lucy's combo unit is up to all microwaving tasks. We have even grilled hamburgers in the convection oven. It did a really nice job.

Brian
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:54 PM   #789
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25 FC FB or RB and impact on kitchen

I realize this is totally a personal thing, but we're new to this and not sure how we'll cook and camp. The front bedroom is so compelling based on the view from the dinette and the fact that we'll probably be backed into scenic spots vs. slots in a park. However, losing the gas oven seems like it's something we'd miss. Sounds like all of you don't miss it?

We're retiring in a couple weeks, have purchased a tow vehicle (2015 F-150 Lariat Ecoboost) and will purchase an AS this summer. We're very comfortable that the 25' Flying Cloud is what we want/need, but have been driving ourselves crazy with the floor plan decision. These latest comments address our major hurdle from deciding on an FB, i.e. whether the FB is a compromise in the kitchen. Sounds like you're all happy with the Conv/MW and no gas oven. Are any of you using the convection oven or just microwave?

Great thread, and thanks in advance.

BTW, Brian are you still in town or are you headed to Jackson? We're coming down to Amelia Island 4/5-4/10 for a birthday/retirement getaway.
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:09 PM   #790
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Marter,

In case you have not seen it, Colonial Airstream has a good video on YouTube comparing the two layouts of the Flying Cloud 25.
Gary
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:21 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
With the awning deployed, only the belt line lights can be seen. I put the bely line lights under the molding as I figures it would last longer there.



Brian

I just stopped by my trailer and noticed that the belt line is wide enough on top so that I could probably apply the LED strip there having the LEDs facing upward and likely illuminating/reflecting in the upper half of the trailer. Any thoughts on that, Brian? I'm probably going to test a few areas before applying permanently. I think if I do that, I'll need to trim the LED strip - I think I can do that at pre-determined slots along the strip to make it the right length. Just a few weeks now and on the road!!! Can't wait!!
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:24 PM   #792
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Quote:
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Marter,

In case you have not seen it, Colonial Airstream has a good video on YouTube comparing the two layouts of the Flying Cloud 25.
Gary
Thanks, I've seen it, and many, many others . My question is more about lifestyle and impact on livability with those differences, particularly in the kitchen, than knowledge of the differences. As I said, I know this is totally objective.

The comments from chaseav and rickyandcook are invaluable. They remove the temptation to look at the longer trailer in order to keep the gas oven; sounds like the compromise with the smaller MV/Conv in the slide-out is not a good one, at least for us.

More importantly, it doesn't sound like anyone sees the Micro/Conv option and resulting loss of the gas oven as a compromise. I'm thinking that's the way we'll go.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:11 PM   #793
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Hi Marter,

I had a 345 Classic Motorhome for many years and recently downsized to an Interstate. The one thing that I really always wished the Motorhome had was a gas oven instead of the Microwave/Convection. That desire was driven by how we camped - we boon dock often and I love to cook & experiment. The gas oven would have meant that I would not have to fire up the generator to cook dinner. Downsizing to an Interstate means that I don't have the opportunity to have a gas oven in it either (and the particular one I have has a microwave only which I use the least of all). So, I have decided to teach myself how to cook with a dutch oven instead outside using a volcano grill (the volcano because it will fit in the storage compartment in my older Interstate) - I consider it a challenge!

In case you are not aware, there are both portable propane ovens and of course micro/convection ovens that you could use as a back up, using them outside if so desired under the awning. Another alternative is to use one of the collapsible coleman camp ovens on top of your cooktop. Most trailers (I think) have an outside outlet under the awning. With your tow vehicle, you would likely have room to store the auxiliary oven if so desired. So it might(?) just come down to which you want inside the trailer more - the gas oven or the micro/convection combo and have the other in your tow vehicle to break out for longer stays/rallies.

I had never used a convection oven when I bought the '86 345 Classic, but I successfully taught myself - I always started every new recipe test at 50 degrees lower and 25% less time and took it from there. When I had the big MH, I had a baby Weber and figured out how to cook pizza on that and used it as an oven to heat up frozen lasagna, etc., when boon docking.


Good luck with your decision - it is a great and exciting time! I would be interested in what you decide and how it works out.

Bugs
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:45 PM   #794
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I am partial to the gas oven. Goes anywhere, everywhere, no power needed---just propane. But, I rarely use the microwave in my home, only for quick melt the butter.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:59 PM   #795
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We (my wife) couldn't live without a conventional oven at home, along with a microwave/convection oven above, although we haven't taken the time to learn how to use the convection oven.

But I think we'll live differently on the road in the AS....I'm seeing much more grilling, range top and microwaving. I don't see us taking the time to truly bake in the AS; more likely to bake it at home and take it with us. But if we did want to, it sounds like the convection oven would give us an option.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:02 PM   #796
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I am partial to the gas oven. Goes anywhere, everywhere, no power needed---just propane. But, I rarely use the microwave in my home, only for quick melt the butter.
Same here. We use the oven a lot.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:05 PM   #797
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Hi Marter,

We full timed for a year with two kids in a 27fb and last year downsized to a 25fb twin.
We don't miss the extra 2 feet at all. There is plenty of storage for everything and we bring less stuff now(payload considerations with our f150).
We chose the front bedroom so we can have a great view in the back when eating or lounging during the day. We try to camp in private spots usually with no hookups. We opted for the twin beds so we wouldn't have to trip over each other(or smash my head on the overhead) when heading for the lav.

The oven to us is invaluable- camping off grid is great. It depends on how much you use your micro at home(we don't). Cooking outside is great for messy things like hamburgers and bacon or when it is hot outside. We bring a coleman stove or cook over the fire.

Woof
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:18 PM   #798
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Marter, consider this too:

The 25 has the side facing bed. That seemed like a good idea in theory but what looks like a walkway on the far side of the bed is actually not. It's no more than 6 inches wide on the floor and your feet can't go underneath the bed. It's unusable for walking space. The 27 probably has the better bedroom but I don't own that one so can't say. By the way, the 27's outside cargo door is on the front of the unit; I would think that's harder to access but I've heard people having big problems with water coming into the front door... lots of water hitting right there when it's raining hard. Not an issue on the 25's side cargo door but it is smaller.

The 27 does not actually give you any more space where it really counts. The bathroom and shower are the same, you simply get a bigger closet and a bigger kitchen pull out. I guess a longer hallway too. I don't think the couch or the kitchen counter are any longer but I could be wrong on that.

The 27 weighs a couple hundred lbs more but VERY ironically has a lower tongue weight. That was something I really could have used but with my 5.3L engine, that extra couple hundred pounds may well have been too much.

Oh, and the 27 is a couple grand more... but when you're already spending 70K+, don't let that weigh in!

In summary, the only way to make a bad decision here is to get paralysis by analysis and NOT buy one. Go with your gut!
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:53 PM   #799
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BTW, Brian are you still in town or are you headed to Jackson? We're coming down to Amelia Island 4/5-4/10 for a birthday/retirement getaway.[/QUOTE]


We are at home in Santa Rosa Beach. We plan to be here until about the 20th of April when we will head over to Jacksonville for a few days before making our way to Jackson Center.

Brian
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:36 PM   #800
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Hi Marter,

We full timed for a year with two kids in a 27fb and last year downsized to a 25fb twin.
We don't miss the extra 2 feet at all. There is plenty of storage for everything and we bring less stuff now(payload considerations with our f150).
We chose the front bedroom so we can have a great view in the back when eating or lounging during the day. We try to camp in private spots usually with no hookups. We opted for the twin beds so we wouldn't have to trip over each other(or smash my head on the overhead) when heading for the lav.

The oven to us is invaluable- camping off grid is great. It depends on how much you use your micro at home(we don't). Cooking outside is great for messy things like hamburgers and bacon or when it is hot outside. We bring a coleman stove or cook over the fire.

Woof
We're going for twins as well; just trying to figure out our cooking lifestyle.
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