TAC Mission Statement discussion

[Dave Park]

The mission statement is what drives and focuses the attention of the club. TAC is all about meeting the needs of our members - so you need to shape the Mission Statement.

Your ideas and suggestions are important.

Talking points: goals, targets, finances, large and small events, how often, how diverse, what kinds of members do we have, additional services, discount negotiation, etc...

Some of these are things we should do, some are maybe things we want to NOT do. How should we approach them?

[tintent]

TAC mission statement, goals...targets...finances......... Are we trying to mimic another organization? Lord, Help us!!

[Mikethefixit]

Yah Dave we dont want NO STINKIN VP's or officers or mission statements. It is my belief that people who joined TAC dont want any of what you have mentioned. IF ya want a rally find a place Tell people about it and they will come.
ORGANIZED is what we dont want. Spur of the moment ONLY.

[2airishuman]

thank goodnesss WE still have air forums gatherings...

in 8 years i've yet 2 see ANY written rules, regions or other organizational crap beyond...

a time
a place
a pot luck list (sometimes)

tethered 2 pictures and stories of the good times before AND after...

there was one rally or 2 with printed schedules of events but that didn't last.
_________

sadly a phony forum club is subplanting a REAL forum club.

and as a result of multiple threads on this stuff, NOOBz here think...

it is the forum club.

it isn't.
_________

wanna have a rally or gathering?

simply post it on the calendar and it can happen...

as an example here's an event going on the 5th or 6th year and STILL one of the most popular winter gigs.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f288...9th-68906.html

there are other forum events dating back 7-9 years and still going strong.

and brand NEW things like the weekendz shindig...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f288...0-a-60484.html

it looks like dave is just taking up server space and competing with the wb' for the 'club listings' on page one.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f505...tes-68930.html

this appears to be a classic example of giving some1 a title and watching them INVENT work.

cheers
2air'

[Dave Park]

Well, yes and no.

The idea is to have the discussion, and see what people want, instead of making assumptions and trying to do peoples' thinking for them

Not saying we want to do all those things, just, discuss them and see what the consensus is, because not everyone will feel the same way.

Discussing these things doesn't mean the club will do any of these things, it's absolutely 100% a "say what you want and what you don't want" forum.

[Dave Park]

Personal view:

I think organization sucks. But...

At the end of the day, the club has to organize larger rallies and that means financial responsibility. Someone has to book sites, and they take on all the liability and risk. Someone has to pay out, and someone has to collect the money. Why should the organizer take all the risk?

How do you balance the need for planning against the strong desire to not have appointed overlords who think they know best? I know the feeling of "NO OFFICERS!" is universal, and I really get that - wouldn't want to be one - it's not fun.

I also see that people divide into two camps - those that want a happy go lucky unorganized (and that DOESN'T mean disorganized) club that does everything on a make-it-up-as-you-go-along and do-what-works basis - and those that want a club that fixes problems they see in other clubs.

TAC isn't about fixing the problems in other clubs. TAC is about having fun.

So what's the discussion even about? I think at the end of the day, it's "just how organized does it want, or need, to be?

It's a growing pain, but I think the big issue for me is financial and legal responsibility: if I organize an event, am I on the hook if people don't pay up their share? Also, am I going to lose my house if someone falls and breaks their hip, and sues me? If the club is TOO informal, I'm liable. And so are anyone who call themselves members.

So, yeah, a tough one.

I think TAC does need someone to do the "treasurer" role, and I do think TAC needs to have non-profit status. That's my opinion, and I know it's not shared by many.

Catch is, that's not fun, and I don't want that job!

[tintent]

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f288...0-a-60484.html

it looks like dave is just taking up server space and competing with the wb' for the 'club listings' on page one.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f505...tes-68930.html

this appears to be a classic example of giving some1 a title and watching them INVENT work.

cheers
2air'[/QUOTE]

Let's be careful with our wording. Dave is only offering ideas and listening to suggestions. Don't hammer him. After all, he is preparing a great September newsletter for us

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Dave Park

...At the end of the day, the club has to organize larger rallies and that means financial responsibility. Someone has to book sites, and they take on all the liability and risk. Someone has to pay out, and someone has to collect the money. Why should the organizer take all the risk?

once again this is INVENTING things that do NOT need to exist...

financial responsibility, liability insurance, RISKs and so on...

if you INVISION the need for those things, they exist.

but other visions lead to other methods.

NONE of the assumptions are absolutes.

Originally Posted by Dave Park

I think the big issue for me is financial and legal responsibility: if I organize an event, am I on the hook if people don't pay up their share? Also, am I going to lose my house if someone falls and breaks their hip, and sues me? If the club is TOO informal, I'm liable. And so are anyone who call themselves members...

I think TAC does need someone to do the "treasurer" role, and I do think TAC needs to have non-profit status.

for those worried about legal, financial issues and personal liability join the wb' or good sams or TCT and do a/s events...

if u r worried about losing your house and bein' sued...

join a REAL CLUB with established protections (just be sure about WHO or WHAT is protected)
___________

Originally Posted by tintent

...Let's be careful with our wording...

hey tintent, THANKs 4 putting your thoughts RIGHT OUT in the OPEN...

that's appreciated and should be the process HERE on a forum.

instead of hiding in a pm.

and i agree, CARE in wording is important...

it's no slam to suggest that folks given (or assuming) titles in a fictional club invent work...

it's a common trait across the human landscape and whenever ASSEMBLY is formalized.

the notion of SELF importance grows from this seed too...

attend ANY wb' event larger than a local thing and u will see folks walking around "enforcing" rules that....

1. are not needed
2. are wrongly interpreted
3. don't actually exist.

attaching states to numbers and selling the idea that LOW means in on the ground floor of something new...

was the beginning of THIS clubs UNdoin'...

adding the feature/s of formal NONprofit status only accelerates that demise.

again carefully chosen words.

cheers
2air'

[Dave Park]

2air, you're entitled to hold and express any opinion you like. However, it's just your opinion and it isn't more or less right than anyone else's.

Bottom line, the organizer of a rally is on the hook for some liability/risk, and we should at least discuss that and see if there's a minimal level of organization we can achieve that meets the goal of "no officers" and "not making work for ourselves" but still offers some basic protections for the individuals.

You might feel the risk of losses or lawsuits is not something you need to worry about, bot others among us may feel it IS worth worrying about, and come up with practical, lightweight solutions - and here is the place to discuss it.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Dave Park

...Bottom line, the organizer of a rally is on the hook for...

again this 'bottomline' is an invention.

IF you believe this (someone is on the hook) , "lightweight' protections won't help.

in fact sticking a TOE in the water of this topic (liability)

really means going FULL ON with protections and policies and fees and accountablity.

zero policy club or FULL POLICY club are the 2 safe zones...

trying to be somewhere in the middle is a lot more dangerous and a LOT harder to navigate wisely.

that's really the bottom line...

or is it?

cheers
2air'

[utee94]

Dave, my $0.02 is that the Mission of TAC is to have fun, and I think that the more fixed organization is in place, the less fun things become.

I understand that the organizers of rallies, especially large ones, assume a lot of responsibility and some potential risk. If folks are not comfortable with that, then my best advice is not to do it. I think that the moment a treasury becomes involved, then all sorts of other offices must be created to manage it and safeguard it. That sounds anti-fun to me, and therefore anti-TAC.

I founded and run a 501(c)(3) charitable organization as one of my side hobbies, and it requires more organization than I'd personally ever want to see in a "Having Fun Club."

I say this with all due respect, because I think you have some great ideas and you're clearly excited about it. Thanks for your efforts and time, it is much appreciated.

-Marcus

[Dave Park]

Indeed

I think that it's the way of things that clubs form, get all official, and then those that get off on organizing do that, and those that enjoy the benefits are often apathetic about the actual operations. 50 years pass by and you end up with a management that thinks it's elite and a disenfranchised membership. I think there's definitely room for a club that answers that problem.

I also think that TAC is not that club, and shouldn't try to be. I think TAC seems to have found its mark as a casual, family-oriented low-cost-event club for people who are less planned and more flexible in their outlook.

Yes, I have a lot of enthusiasm and energy and free time. No, I don't want to be an officer and I'm not sure I'd want to be in a club that has officers of the kind described above. I think I would be in a club that had roles that needed to be filled as a service to the club membership. Roles that don't bring privileges, but do have responsibilities, and that make things better, safer and more reliable.

...not TOO safe (boring) or too better (expensive) or too reliable (predictable!)

[Charlie M]

Originally Posted by Dave Park

The mission statement is what drives and focuses the attention of the club. TAC is all about meeting the needs of our members - so you need to shape the Mission Statement.

Your ideas and suggestions are important.

Talking points: goals, targets, finances, large and small events, how often, how diverse, what kinds of members do we have, additional services, discount negotiation, etc...

Some of these are things we should do, some are maybe things we want to NOT do. How should we approach them?

For my .02 NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

sadly a phony forum club is subplanting a REAL forum club.


cheers
2air'

You have made that statement a few times now. What exactly is your beef? Why are you so hostile about the TAC?

[robandzoe]

2Air, too many times on here, you've told us to move on.. we did that. Now, you're constantly being antagonistic towards the TAC - why? As I see it, there are at least 15 other clubs using AIR - do you attack them too? phony??? so there are 350 of us phonies that all see something you don't - follow your own advice given to me in the past and move on, or use the ignore button... unless you want to be member 352 (got another request while typing this...) Just let me know. We'll even let you wear your RASTA beret.... I've got that photo somewhere..if I can find it, I'll post it!!

Rob
TAC NY-1

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Are all these people phonies also?


Or is it just those that hide in the shadows phonies? This thread was started as a discussion for how to proceed with our club, a club you are welcome to participate in any time you wish. I will still bake you pie anytime you choose to show up. The last attempted did not go so well did it ... Chocolate cream was it?

[WineStream]

Before this thread gets too far off topic...

I'll try to bring it back to it's purpose which is to get thoughts out there about what we, the members, want as a mission statement. I will qualify here that Andrea's opinion is slightly different (okay a lot different) than mine. So, what I write below is not necessarily the opinion of both people who comprise the username of "WineStream"

I'd like to quote what one of our founders wrote for the recently published TAC September newsletter: "people that just want to participate in a club where all the politics is set aside – to belong to a group that wants to just have fun with their Airstream! TAC’s motto is to follow the KISS principle"..."Plan it and they will come."

I don't want it to be any more complicated than that. Those that want to do something do it. Those that don't, don't. If there comes a time that no one wants to organize a rally, or cook breakfast, or get up at 5am to start the coffee, or 4am to peel potatoes for breakfast hashbrowns...then those things won't happen. Either someone will step up and say, "I'm taking on this task" or everything will stop. And if it stops, then it is because no one wanted to work hard enough to make it continue. No one will have the finger pointed at them as the cause of the decline or failure; which is what happens when there's a designated leader / pres./ officer.

It's kind of an anarchist point of view, but right now it works. You pay to play, you get what you give. I think that if we designate positions and tasks then the typical bureaucratic red tape and bogged-downness will begin. Leave everything how it is right now. We're gaining momentum, members, and rallies. Throwing in anything political already gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach. I don't want to go to rallies and wonder who's running for position and who's doing the right/wrong thing. I just want to camp with other like-minded people and so far, TAC people are those people.

-Jason

[robandzoe]

Originally Posted by WineStream

Before this thread gets too far off topic...

I'll try to bring it back to it's purpose which is to get thoughts out there about what we, the members, want as a mission statement. I will qualify here that Andrea's opinion is slightly different (okay a lot different) than mine. So, what I write below is not necessarily the opinion of both people who comprise the username of "WineStream"

I'd like to quote what one of our founders wrote for the recently published TAC September newsletter: "people that just want to participate in a club where all the politics is set aside – to belong to a group that wants to just have fun with their Airstream! TAC’s motto is to follow the KISS principle"..."Plan it and they will come."

I don't want it to be any more complicated than that. Those that want to do something do it. Those that don't, don't. If there comes a time that no one wants to organize a rally, or cook breakfast, or get up at 5am to start the coffee, or 4am to peel potatoes for breakfast hashbrowns...then those things won't happen. Either someone will step up and say, "I'm taking on this task" or everything will stop. And if it stops, then it is because no one wanted to work hard enough to make it continue. No one will have the finger pointed at them as the cause of the decline or failure; which is what happens when there's a designated leader / pres./ officer.

It's kind of an anarchist point of view, but right now it works. You pay to play, you get what you give. I think that if we designate positions and tasks then the typical bureaucratic red tape and bogged-downness will begin. Leave everything how it is right now. We're gaining momentum, members, and rallies. Throwing in anything political already gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach. I don't want to go to rallies and wonder who's running for position and who's doing the right/wrong thing. I just want to camp with other like-minded people and so far, TAC people are those people.

-Jason

Jason,

Great post!! Love it!! I could KISS you!... whoops.. did I say that!! LOL

Rob

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by robandzoe

2Air, too many times on here, you've told us to move on.. we did that. Now, you're constantly being antagonistic towards the TAC - why? As I see it, there are at least 15 other clubs using AIR - do you attack them too? phony??? so there are 350 of us phonies that all see something you don't - follow your own advice given to me in the past and move on, or use the ignore button... unless you want to be member 352 (got another request while typing this...) Just let me know. We'll even let you wear your RASTA beret.... I've got that photo somewhere..if I can find it, I'll post it!!

Rob
TAC NY-1

Rob, the ignore button works for individuals also. I havn't had to read any of his useless, negative advise for a long time now.

[whitsend]

2air's posts are sometimes humorous, but frequently he appears (to me) to enjoy taking the contrary position, if only to stir the pot? Gathering attention? 2air - Like Mom always said (TO ME) "If you don't have anything nice (helpful) to say, keep your yap shut".

TAC's founders, contributors & members are working hard to provide a meaningful alternative that I fully support. Why not try to be openly constructive. Or, just find another thread where your razor sharp wit might be more appropriate?

I have NO problem with constructive suggestions. Sadly that's not what I see from you very often.