Recent personal black bear learnings

[dznf0g]

Just thinking out loud here.....if a bear can be trained that packs and barrels are the jewel, can't they be retrained that they mean pain. Should portable electric fences be required? The FS already requires that you take "appropriate measure" under penalty of fine. It seems these fences are effective and there's not a huge cost involved. I mean a light canoe $3.5k, all the gear is probably $2k, and no damage to the trees by burning the limbs with a rope for your bear bag.

[Gene]

When we camped north of the Arctic Circle, many miles north and five miles north of Coldfoot, behind our tent I saw a really big footprint. It seemed too large for a bear, so I asked the campground host what it was. I was told it was a moose print. Then I realized the campsite was placed right on a game trail.

I never moved the tent figuring since it was light all day and night, even with their bad eyesight, moose could see the tent. I'd rather meet a moose than a bear since bears are omnivores and moose are vegetarians. But those long legs can kick you enough to seriously damage you.

Bears are unpredictable. They will often ignore you until something happens that to them is a threat. Too you it is nothing, but not to them and you likely will have no idea what spooked them. They generally do not want trouble, but some are far more aggressive than others. Not only would I not want to be between a mother and her cubs, but between an interested male and a female in heat. At least we can sometimes see the cubs, but we will not know there is a female in heat. You might be between a kill and a bear, mountain lion or other omnivore. It may not even be a kill—animals die of natural causes too. Most large predators have a better sense of smell than we do, so they know where food is.

If you were a forest dweller wearing skins, you would be attuned to predators and probably detect them faster than we "civilized" people. But we are not. Our dogs can be quite dangerous predator too, but a city or suburban dog has little idea what is out there, so if you don't have strict control over your dog (leash or voice), a dog is in danger too and may actually attract a large predator. Dogs can be too friendly and reckless, thus disturbing a bear, etc. The last thing I'd want to see if my dog runs off and then a few minutes (or seconds) later, comes back at full speed and runs right past me. I always hiked with a walking stick—it can be a weapon too.

I have lived in bear country for 44 years. I have never seen one by any house, but sometimes along a road. I don't leave doors open because a bear cannot see a screen door easily and they walk right through them. Same with screened windows. If I open a window, it will be an upper one and not very much. A lot of house invasions happen when bears disregard screens. Some bears can open doors with lever handles, so those doors have to be locked. In the past month a bear in Colorado opened a door with a lever. Animals watch us and figure out things. I once had a cat that I would see trying to turn a doorknob—he never could do it, but he might have opened a lever.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by field & stream

Yup. Somebody (the Craigheads, during their Yellowstone research?) described the Grizzly as an even-tempered animal: angry all the time.

We were very lucky 30 years ago in Yellowstone. I had the two boys down in a small creek putting shoes back on as they had been wading. The four year old looked over my shoulder and said, look dad, there’s a bear. I turned and looked as a big male grizzly with a locator collar walked 30 ft from us, across the small stream we were by, and on up into the woods. (He had a big hump above his shoulders) We were lucky he wasn’t in a bad mood, and/or wasn’t hungry. My wife was in tears, her worst nightmare had almost come true. We called it in to the ranger station, they were very interested. People in camp kept saying that we were so lucky to have seen a grizzly. I kept saying, I’d preferred to have seen him from the car. My wife took a pic, but she was shaking so bad, it’s difficult to tell what’s in the picture. Our trusty pop-up didn’t seem so secure after that.
A few days later we were checking in to Grand Teton NP. I asked the ranger at the gate, no grizzlies down here right? She pointed down the road and said a lady jogger had been mauled down there a few weeks ago.. I think that was a black bear, if I remember correctly. Didn’t help my lovely wife’s state of mind..

[Dennis C]

I have a question for those of you who camp in bear country, particularly boondocking. Assuming it’s a nice night and you’re sleeping with your windows open, do you keep any food inside the Airstream, either in the pantry or the fridge? What about trash? I’ve read stories of bears breaking into campers in the back country. Do you take the same precautions as you would if you were tent-camping?

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I have a question for those of you who camp in bear country, particularly boondocking. Assuming it’s a nice night and you’re sleeping with your windows open, do you keep any food inside the Airstream, either in the pantry or the fridge? What about trash? I’ve read stories of bears breaking into campers in the back country. Do you take the same precautions as you would if you were tent-camping?

There was a female forum member who, about 10 years ago, had a bear try and come in an open window while she was inside. She drove it away. I don't believe it matters if you remove food. The surfaces still have been in contact with food many times and still smell good to the bear. Just like if you have EVER had food in a tent, it is no longer good for bear country.
As I study up on a portable electric fence for bwca tent camping, I am also considering how to make it dual purpose for surrounding the AS.

[JA15830]

Human beings should have nothing to fear from bears. They are really just giant - well - Teddy Bears. They never hurt people - with a couple of exceptions.

1, Don’t get in between a mama bear and a cub. If you do, mama may try to kill you.
2, Don’t get close to a cub or appear to be a threat to a cub. If you do, mama may try to kill you.
3, Never surprise a bear. Surprising a bear is hard to do. They see about as well as we do, but can see in the dark and detect motion quite well. Their hearing is about twice as good as ours. Their sense of smell is very very good - much better than a dog’s. A bear (just like a mountain lion) will likely detect you long before you know he or she is around. Most bears will avoid you almost all of the time. If you have spent a lot of time out in bear country, there is a good chance you have been near a bear and just didn’t know it.
4, Don’t separate a bear from its food - even if you think it is (was) your food. Don’t stand between food and a bear, Don’t appear to be approaching the bear’s food. Some bears think your garbage is their food.
5, Human habituated bears are the bears most likely to harm a human. Stay away from them. Since you can’t really differentiate a human habituated bear from a regular bear, it is best to avoid all bears.
6, Bears have a sense of social distance. Don’t invade their space. For human on human interaction, that is about 18 to 36 inches. For bears, figure 100 to 1000 yards.
7, There is another exception to the bears are harmless doctrine, but I can’t remember it. So, be sure to head exception seven.

Personally, I never fear bears unless I am close to one. Then, like most humans I become afraid.

Bears are much more likely to cause property damage than injury to humans. There was a house towards the top of Ward Ave. that was boarded up. Spray painted on the plywood was Bears - 6 Home - 0.

My father’s cabin has played host to bears a few times. One July, my sister left a downstairs window open. The bear came through the screen and went through the fridge. We had four bottles of maple sugar. Bear ate three of them and left the sugar free bottle. He/she pretty much emptied all the cabinets and flipped over the coffee table. We were lucky. Only losses were the food and the cost of cleaning the carpet.

The next visit we weren’t so lucky. The bear came two nights in a row. Broke a window to get into the bedroom. Bear couldn’t operate the doorknob, so he/she went through the bedroom door to get to the kitchen. Insurance covered most costs. We now remove all food from the cabin when it is not occupied.

Neighbors across the street also removes all food when they leave their cabin. One time, they forgot to take the dog food with them. Bear went through the two inch thick custom fir door.

When in bear country, it is important to lock your car doors. I have a tendency to forget this. Bears are very good at opening car doors. When I forget to lock the doors, we often find the car door open the next morning. Dirt and paw prints inside the car.

We spent a night in dad’s cabin on our way to Montana this last July. About ten PM there were lights and noise outside. Sheriff’s deputies were there with AR 15’s. Bear entered the rental home next door while people were inside. Sheriff’s deputies shot at the bear with rubber bullets. They radioed dispatch to contact Fish and Wildlife to inform them of bear entering an occupied domicile. The scale has tipped a little too far towards the bears. That bear is habituated and dangerous. Relayed this anecdote to a couple of people in Montana. They deal with problem bears differently there.

A bear walked into a Safeway in King's Beach. Grabbed a bag of potato chips and walked out. He was given a nickname.

Another bear got a nickname - Hank the Tank. A local HOA disallowed bear proof garbage can holders. (Idiocy). Hank died a while later. If I remember correctly, he was shot by a hunter. He was emaciated and had lost most of his teeth - badly malnourished. Fortunately, that development doesn't have any ugly garbage can holders.

Next day, stopped in Verdi Nevada and bought bear spray. In California, we can only buy little tiny things of bear spray.

So, if you pay attention to the seven rules, you should be perfectly fine (when it comes to bears).

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by JA15830

Human beings should have nothing to fear from bears. They are really just giant - well - Teddy Bears. They never hurt people - with a couple of exceptions.

1, Don’t get in between a mama bear and a cub. If you do, mama may try to kill you.
2, Don’t get close to a cub or appear to be a threat to a cub. If you do, mama may try to kill you.
3, Never surprise a bear. Surprising a bear is hard to do. They see about as well as we do, but can see in the dark and detect motion quite well. Their hearing is about twice as good as ours. Their sense of smell is very very good - much better than a dog’s. A bear (just like a mountain lion) will likely detect you long before you know he or she is around. Most bears will avoid you almost all of the time. If you have spent a lot of time out in bear country, there is a good chance you have been near a bear and just didn’t know it.
4, Don’t separate a bear from its food - even if you think it is (was) your food. Don’t stand between food and a bear, Don’t appear to be approaching the bear’s food. Some bears think your garbage is their food.
5, Human habituated bears are the bears most likely to harm a human. Stay away from them. Since you can’t really differentiate a human habituated bear from a regular bear, it is best to avoid all bears.
6, Bears have a sense of social distance. Don’t invade their space. For human on human interaction, that is about 18 to 36 inches. For bears, figure 100 to 1000 yards.
7, There is another exception to the bears are harmless doctrine, but I can’t remember it. So, be sure to head exception seven.

Personally, I never fear bears unless I am close to one. Then, like most humans I become afraid.

Bears are much more likely to cause property damage than injury to humans. There was a house towards the top of Ward Ave. that was boarded up. Spray painted on the plywood was Bears - 6 Home - 0.

My father’s cabin has played host to bears a few times. One July, my sister left a downstairs window open. The bear came through the screen and went through the fridge. We had four bottles of maple sugar. Bear ate three of them and left the sugar free bottle. He/she pretty much emptied all the cabinets and flipped over the coffee table. We were lucky. Only losses were the food and the cost of cleaning the carpet.

The next visit we weren’t so lucky. The bear came two nights in a row. Broke a window to get into the bedroom. Bear couldn’t operate the doorknob, so he/she went through the bedroom door to get to the kitchen. Insurance covered most costs. We now remove all food from the cabin when it is not occupied.

Neighbors across the street also removes all food when they leave their cabin. One time, they forgot to take the dog food with them. Bear went through the two inch thick custom fir door.

When in bear country, it is important to lock your car doors. I have a tendency to forget this. Bears are very good at opening car doors. When I forget to lock the doors, we often find the car door open the next morning. Dirt and paw prints inside the car.

We spent a night in dad’s cabin on our way to Montana this last July. About ten PM there were lights and noise outside. Sheriff’s deputies were there with AR 15’s. Bear entered the rental home next door while people were inside. Sheriff’s deputies shot at the bear with rubber bullets. They radioed dispatch to contact Fish and Wildlife to inform them of bear entering an occupied domicile. The scale has tipped a little too far towards the bears. That bear is habituated and dangerous. Relayed this anecdote to a couple of people in Montana. They deal with problem bears differently there.

A bear walked into a Safeway in King's Beach. Grabbed a bag of potato chips and walked out. He was given a nickname.

Another bear got a nickname - Hank the Tank. A local HOA disallowed bear proof garbage can holders. (Idiocy). Hank died a while later. If I remember correctly, he was shot by a hunter. He was emaciated and had lost most of his teeth - badly malnourished. Fortunately, that development doesn't have any ugly garbage can holders.

Next day, stopped in Verdi Nevada and bought bear spray. In California, we can only buy little tiny things of bear spray.

So, if you pay attention to the seven rules, you should be perfectly fine (when it comes to bears).

Wellll, a lot of what you say is true, but:

"Vision: Black bears are believed to see in color and have great up close eyesight. Recent research is showing that their long distance eyesight is not very good, they are likely not able to see details of a large objects from further than 30 yards away."

They are terribly nearsighted.

I don't fear them at all...but....I do respect them. They are pretty predictable, in the wild. Humanized ones....not so much.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you have never been out and tried some "target practice" with your bear spray, it's a good thing to do. Grab an expired can and find a place to try it that will not bother anybody or anything. Try the first shot downwind ......

If you ever do have to use the stuff, it's better to have seen how it works ahead of time. Each time I've gone out with folks on this exercise, they have been a bit surprised.

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you have never been out and tried some "target practice" with your bear spray, it's a good thing to do. Grab an expired can and find a place to try it that will not bother anybody or anything. Try the first shot downwind ......

If you ever do have to use the stuff, it's better to have seen how it works ahead of time. Each time I've gone out with folks on this exercise, they have been a bit surprised.

Bob

I have done that. I find that it is best to start at 30', aim low and raise to it's face...stop. Rinse and repeat if necessary. I haven't had the courage to try it upwind. I have a plan, but haven't exercised it.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

You don't have "sights" on the bear spray can. Thinking that you can aim it well before you start spraying is typically part of the "surprise". 30 to 40 feet is not a bad distance, it's far enough that you will have to walk the spray onto the target.

Is that true for everybody on the planet? I'm sure there is somebody who can do it blindfolded . For the rest of us .... not so much.

If it's mom bear and a cub or two, go for mom. Don't "hurt" the kid. If you do, it's very likely to put you at the very top of mom's "dinner list". Have I tried this / know it first hand? Nope, but that's what I keep getting told.

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

You don't have "sights" on the bear spray can. Thinking that you can aim it well before you start spraying is typically part of the "surprise". 30 to 40 feet is not a bad distance, it's far enough that you will have to walk the spray onto the target.

Is that true for everybody on the planet? I'm sure there is somebody who can do it blindfolded . For the rest of us .... not so much.

If it's mom bear and a cub or two, go for mom. Don't "hurt" the kid. If you do, it's very likely to put you at the very top of mom's "dinner list". Have I tried this / know it first hand? Nope, but that's what I keep getting told.

Bob

Yeah, I'd bet my mild mannered wife would've turned into a she-devil if something threatened her kids. Jus sayin, that's a universal rule. Don't screw with the pups.

[dznf0g]

Fyi, several bear spray companies also have practice bottles available also. No pepper chemicals in them. If someone new to the stuff is considering keeping bear spray handy, a practice can is recommended.

[farafield]

When a bear learns that coming close to humans will be rewarding, i.e. food, they are a dead bear. If you care about bears, don't leave food or garbage or any attractant out where they can get into it. If they come near your home or camp, go wild and try to scare the heck out of them. Bears should be wild and wary of humans. Otherwise, they are in trouble.

[NancyLKerr]

Congrats on bear safe though scary encounter. We see Black bears frequently in my town, including my alley and neighbors' trashcans when they are hungry--which seems to be spring and fall.

I frequent Alaska quite a bit (a son lives there) and we prefer hard shell lodging--either a van or a public use cabin. Brown bears, by the way, are identified by finding bear bells in their tummy. They like toothpaste!
But, I really wrote to ask how you haul your canoe along with your airstream?

Thanks.

[Quicksilver6]

Just wondering why if the DNR knows about this activity of threatening humans why don't they take care of the threat. I would think it's the responsibility of the DNR to notify the lodges of bear activity.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by NancyLKerr

Congrats on bear safe though scary encounter. We see Black bears frequently in my town, including my alley and neighbors' trashcans when they are hungry--which seems to be spring and fall.

I frequent Alaska quite a bit (a son lives there) and we prefer hard shell lodging--either a van or a public use cabin. Brown bears, by the way, are identified by finding bear bells in their tummy. They like toothpaste!
But, I really wrote to ask how you haul your canoe along with your airstream?

Thanks.

On top of the truck. Wasn't scary, but we were very alerted.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver6

Just wondering why if the DNR knows about this activity of threatening humans why don't they take care of the threat. I would think it's the responsibility of the DNR to notify the lodges of bear activity.

They do monitor. It is when a bear moves from nuisance to threat that they take action. See post #1. This is USFS ,btw, not DNR.
Also, one other sign they asked about in addition to post #1, was did he paw at or stomp the ground? No.
There is communication with all vendors who are authorized to issue entry permits. Some apparently just don't pay attention or care.

[SnowWanderer]

Great experience! I am wondering why you wouldn't carry a firearm? At the very least, it's noise firing into the ground might cause the bear to leave and at most, might prove better than a knife coupled with bear spray, should it attack!

I understand there are legalities that must be followed and complied with, and rightly so, but an injured or dead companion mauled by a bear... for want of staying 'legal' versus a live, an uninjured 'scofflaw', seems a harsh price to pay! I prefer to be safe than sorry!

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SnowWanderer

Great experience! I am wondering why you wouldn't carry a firearm? At the very least, it's noise firing into the ground might cause the bear to leave and at most, might prove better than a knife coupled with bear spray, should it attack!



I understand there are legalities that must be followed and complied with, and rightly so, but an injured or dead companion mauled by a bear... for want of staying 'legal' versus a live, an uninjured 'scofflaw', seems a harsh price to pay! I prefer to be safe than sorry!

Legalities for sure. Although it is federal land. BUT, they have a "no firing within 150 yards from a site" regulation....so they got you if they want. My 9mm is arguably not enough. My 357mag is very heavy..6"barrel.
Noise can be made with the same effectiveness with a small pocket sized canned air horn. Bear spray is very effective.

[dznf0g]

I now have all the bits and pieces (sans one) to construct my electric food fence. I patterned it after the UDAP food fence, but a bit more robust. In addition, it meets or exceeds all usfs requirements, per their tech tips from their technology department. If there is any interest, I will post the parts and finished product. It'll be a couple weeks before it's done.....going ASing tomorrow.