One AC enough?

[rodsterinfl]

I will post my opinion from a 25' perspective as it may provide a few considerations with some related background:

When I purchased my Airstream I pictured myself going anywhere to camp. I learned that was called boon docking. I assume from "being in the boonies." I quickly learned it was not doable without proper equipment- electrical power is a priority that must be obtained via battery power.

I bought the stuff- solar, lithium, wifi ranger, cellular booster, starlink, inverter, generator- on and on the list goes. Then there was the AC- no way to run that on backup power. I knew this meant doing without.

Some years later, after camping more and realizing work arounds I learned that my camping preference was to stay in National Parks and State Parks. I found that most of them do not have hookups. I bought a powerboost F150 with a 7.2 KW inverter. It was great to power the trailer including the AC when needed with minimal gasoline use. I thought I had it made. At the same time I installed a Zip Dee street side awning- my unit did not have the awning package new only the one patio awning. It really cut down on the heat! By the way, I am also learning that site space is limited even for a 25 foot length!

So, recently I stayed in Big Bend National Park in the Rio Grande Valley. No hookups there. I have never been so hot. I have an accurate meter that reads inside and outside the trailer. It was 110 degrees in the trailer and 126 degrees sun/110 shade. I went to plug in my F150 and the park ranger, camping next to me said no. It is a fully quiet zone at night. The truck is VERY quiet and only runs for about 5 min then idles every so often-way quieter than a generator. I burned up that night with my fantastic fans blowing their little hearts out. The next day I moved to a private comapany's full hook-up camping in a parking lot called Rio Grande Camper Village right at the little store. My single 13,500 AC cooled the trailer the next day to a cool 89 degrees inside (was cool sounds hot) while it was again 108 outside and 130 in sun. Remember the rules of BTU and cooling capacity that 26 degrees is about the max for any cooling situation between ambient and interior. For my one unit to get to 89 degrees in open sun heat of 130 is fantastic. The awning made a huge difference too on the afternoon sun and for the propane fridge which also only went up two degrees from 37 to 39 in that heat.

If you get one unit, get a 15K. The newer models with ducting will help distribute the air. Also get a DC fan like the treva to stir air and the awning kit. The one thing you will have to deal with too is the move to more and more electrical appliances- too many. Stove, oven, fridge, water heater. That will force you to stay in rv parks or have a slew of batteries. Consider this- a 12V fridge needs about a full lithium class 24 battery a day to operate. A propane fridge can go 28 days on on 30lb tank. See what I mean about power? Propane is clean burning and it is a camper's friend.

My story is long but it says a lot. How do you plan or want to camp? Will a single AC work (yes). Camping you run into many situations and need to be multi-capable with power too.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

When you run zero, no chord.
When you run one, use 30 Amp chord
When you run two, use 50 Amp chord

Air conditioning questions and boondocking footprints are in different universes.

Originally Posted by richard5933

All true, except for the last line. The two issues overlap in at least two places...

1) If you have a second a/c unit you lose the second roof vent. Very important for someone who primarily camps without the a/c or who boondocks a lot.

2) The second a/c, even when not in use, adds a chunk of weight to the trailer. My calculations favored spending that extra weight on the rooftop solar. For someone who camps in the heat of the SouthWest a lot the calculation would obviously be different.

Adding also, you have to deal then with a third cable and adapter. You still need to store the 50A cable and all it's weight, plus need an adapter (for the SmartPlug users, there's only one, a 50A Smart Plug to 30A Twist lock). I like our simplicity. I have a 30A cable that I use usually, a 30A to 15/20A and a 12/3 20A cable that I use primarily as a backup or when I'm plugging into someone's house and just want to get a little charge to keep the A/C from draining our batteries completely. And to get two A/C, we would have needed a completely different model and then add the features (some of which would have been near impossible) after the fact.

We survived on 12 amps for a long weekend in the high 90s, low 100s, fully exposed and unable to get our street side awning out due to a tight driveway. Airstream stayed cool with one A/C, and with only 12 amps to work with, we never dropped below 60% battery, and we left the weekend at around 80%. We can get 15–16 amps out of our truck (I keep it at 15 amps to be safe), which I think could keep up with the A/C alone, though would not, obviously, be ideal if we were in the same conditions as that weekend on 12 amps.

I'm not arguing that 2 A/C's is a bad idea. Just pushing against the idea that 2 A/C's are the only right answer.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

We survived on 12 amps for a long weekend in the high 90s, low 100s, fully exposed and unable to get our street side awning out due to a tight driveway. Airstream stayed cool with one A/C, and with only 12 amps to work with, we never dropped below 60% battery, and we left the weekend at around 80%

I'm not arguing that 2 A/C's is a bad idea. Just pushing against the idea that 2 A/C's are the only right answer.

I'm assuming you can run the A/C on 12A with the MultiPlus and a soft start?

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

I'm assuming you can run the A/C on 12A with the MultiPlus and a soft start?

Yes. We have the Trade Wind 25FB.

[mythbuster88]

So I like the idea of using an additional roof vent with a fan instead of two ACs. Did not think of that.

For the record if it is hot and we are in the boonies our awesome 30 foot Airstream has seven large glorious windows plus the screen door plus the awnings.

If it is really super hot we are somewhere else.

Also with the large trailer and truck we have boatloads of storage, so carrying extra stuff like multiple power cords never caused a second thought. We just take everything.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

I will post my opinion from a 25' perspective as it may provide a few considerations with some related background: ...



...My story is long but it says a lot. How do you plan or want to camp? Will a single AC work (yes). Camping you run into many situations and need to be multi-capable with power too.

Nice story.
Ha Ha!
We did a lot of boondocking preparation too. And that included two propane powered Honda generators. Well all my testing was done at sea level where everything worked great. Two ACs.

But as soon as we got above three thousand feet or so, the generators could not power two ACs, so we just had one.
Ha ha!

[PaulBristol]

I have one A/C in my 2025 Airstream Trade Wind 25 foot model. I had one in my 7 year old Kodiak Cub. I never used the A/C in the 7 years we camped in the Cub except in our driveway when working hard on a project. I never used the A/C in my new Trade Wind. I have used the heat pump in the Trade Wind when the new propane furnace failed.

There is a picture similar to my unit in the advertising at the top of this page.
1 ducted combined A/C heat pump
1 automatic ceiling vent fan
Street side awning
Rear window awning
Curb side Zip Dee Canopy.
6 awning type windows.
Huge rear hatch brings the outside in when open.
600 watts of solar
More than 800 amp hours of lithium batteries
Victron Multiplus II will invert to run the A/C and heat pump for a while. Maybe one hot day.
Solar works well in Texas. It does not work well in Wisconsin.

Big Bend National Park in Texas from late fall to early spring:
I suppose some die hard people do camp in the desert in the summer.

If you need to run a generator, score a generator allowed site in the Rio Grand Village campground. Around half of them are generator allowed. I know, easier said than done. Maybe easier in the summer.

One day in 10 I wanted to use the A/C. Decided to relax under the canopy through the heat of the day instead. Exercise early morning or late evening and at night. Almost constant wind and low humidity made it work okay. The desert sometimes flowers in April.

Solar peak output was around 400 watts each day. It provided more than enough to use the propane furnace at night and run everything else including the 12 volt compressor refrigerator and convection microwave oven. Never had to start the generator.

Wisconsin State Parks Fall and Spring

Don't need the A/C. Open the rear hatch and windows on warm afternoons. We relax comfortably inside or out. The automatic fan works when leaving the trailer closed up during the day.

Solar works poorly or not at all. Batteries last for four or more days running the furnace. Plenty of propane.

Wisconsin State Parks in Summer
To be determined...

Electric sites on weekends are already booked solid through September. We will use dry camping sites wherever they are available.

[SunchaserV]

As noted by many, your life game plan and location dictates one's AC needs. Add in trailer design and there is another variable yet. Then comes camping location when on shore power. Nothing beats cool nights, if you can do it.

The one vs two ACs goes away as a discussion topic if the nights are below 60F and the day times don't get above 85 or so. So one vs two - it all depends ----

[TLowe43q]

We have a 2022 FBT International with 2 A/Cs ... as many have said it depends on where you go. Even with both units operating, summer in the south will be HOT.

We happened to be in northern CA redwood country when one unit began to grind itself to death, so 1 unit got us a few days until we visited the dealer in Fairfield CA (August). I had to shame them into LOOKING at it ("no time, no parts, won't be able to do anything") ... lo and behold, they found the the squirrel cage fan loose (crappy design, with two of the 3 screws just into rubber blocks). They secured BOTH units with thread lock and off we went.

Bakersfield CA at 117 degrees (September) and one of the units decides to become a heater; the other could NOT cool down until early AM.

We were in AL when we finally got another dealer to LOOK at it (October). Warranty replacement needed, Jackson Center needs to approve and then the unit is ordered. Finally made it back from FL to AL for replacement in February.

Oh, btw, the new unit squirrel cage screws also came loose, but at least I knew what to do at that point.

[ForteePlus]

Originally Posted by TLowe43q

We happened to be in northern CA redwood country when one unit began to grind itself to death, so 1 unit got us a few days until we visited the dealer in Fairfield CA (August). I had to shame them into LOOKING at it ("no time, no parts, won't be able to do anything") ... lo and behold, they found the the squirrel cage fan loose (crappy design, with two of the 3 screws just into rubber blocks). They secured BOTH units with thread lock and off we went.

Excellent point! I forgot about it - we had the exact same thing happen enrote to Alumapalooza 2 years ago. The JC guys re-tightened everything and all good since.

[Gene]

First, I never use all the storage on any device.

A/C—we camped in the spring and fall, or, if in the summer, at high altitude. Obviously, and thankfully, not everyone lives in Colorado, but you may visit and spend all your money. Airstreams are called 3 season trailers, but for many they are 2 season trailers. We worked with what we had.

I wonder if the Airstream ducted A/C is like the badly done ducts on our Thor MH? In the ceiling they put two cheap layers of foam board and do not seal the edges, so much air leaks through the ceiling and cools nothing but the roof. I used spray foam and closed off some of the ducts and the foam board edges where I could reach it. The registers come off easily with 2 screws. There are 9 registers and we only have 4 open (the rest sealed off) and most of the air comes through the A/C outlets. If you pull down the A/C cover, you'll find the space between the in and out sides are not probably sealed, so air leaks from one side to another. That was sealed with foil and duct tape. The part of the plenum that distributes air to either the ducts or the outlets in the A/C can be improved with either sealing parts off you aren't using with pieces of wood and tape, or just using foil and tape. Because the interior has many rough and angular edges, it causes turbulence and that warms air and lowers the volume that exits the plenum. There are plenty of videos online showing how to improve the A/C. The Thor MH also is not very good in hot weather, but we adjust as we did with the Airstream. The Nash trailer had very good insulation and stayed cooler than the Airstream and we used a lot less propane on heat too.

For whatever, this is hardly a new subject.

[ourRVstories]

We live in Texas and wished our 23’ had an option for a 2nd AC. We upgraded to a 27FB and got the 2 ACs, a necessity here. But even if you’re never in extreme heat, it’s a huge plus for resale. On any trailer that offers 2 units, I say get the 2nd one.

[Mollysdad]

I wonder how many folks start with the idea, "I can run one A/C on my Honda 2200 as long as I have a soft start."
And then end with "How heavy is that Champion 4500?"
In one's mind it's just an A/C, but in reality it's the converter, inverter, parasitic loads, fridge control, water heater control, lights, and all the assorted things we all take for granted.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by ourRVstories

We live in Texas and wished our 23’ had an option for a 2nd AC. We upgraded to a 27FB and got the 2 ACs, a necessity here. But even if you’re never in extreme heat, it’s a huge plus for resale. On any trailer that offers 2 units, I say get the 2nd one.

Resale...

I've seen that brought up a lot with regard to the second A/C unit as well as a few other key options. Two schools of thought on this.

One is like you mentioned, buy now with the next buyer's wants/needs in mind.

The other is to buy what you need/want and assume someone else will also need it down the road when you are ready to sell.

Me, I plan on keeping the trailer a long time so only really considered what we want/need. In the course of time, the difference in resale between our one a/c trailer vs. a two a/c trailer will be negligible. Now, if we were planning on a quick (few years, at most) turnaround things might be different.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I wonder how many folks start with the idea, "I can run one A/C on my Honda 2200 as long as I have a soft start."
And then end with "How heavy is that Champion 4500?"
In one's mind it's just an A/C, but in reality it's the converter, inverter, parasitic loads, fridge control, water heater control, lights, and all the assorted things we all take for granted.

So lemme work on that a bit...

You're correct, if you have a stock camper (depending on what your stock camper is), and aren't using anything else, and have a soft start, maybe your 2200 can run it for a bit, but it could be challenging, and as soon as anything else starts to need to be on, it doesn't quite continue to work so well.

But if you upgrade to a Multiplus, or if you have a camper that already is set up with a Multiplus, one of the things they can do is a power supplement: if you have enough battery capacity, it can take that marginal generator input, add a bit of power from your batteries, and keep that AC working. Then when the AC isn't running, has cycled off, the Multiplus puts the generator's feed back into the battery bank.

But if you don't have a Multiplus, then yeah, more generator might be the solution. Maybe a pair of 2200's, as that'd be easier to drag around one at a time, but one of the newer 3200 ones might be nice (especially if you don't have to lift it around).

[Silver Ship]

Currently have my rear AC inoperable along with my gas furnace. No worries as the front AC is fine. Two units provide you with a backup, and one rare day, here in the Puget Sound area we had a 100+ degree day which found me retreating from this Brick Oven to my comfortable Stream for relief with both units going full blast. Safe Travels, John

[ourRVstories]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Resale...

I've seen that brought up a lot with regard to the second A/C unit as well as a few other key options. Two schools of thought on this.

One is like you mentioned, buy now with the next buyer's wants/needs in mind.

The other is to buy what you need/want and assume someone else will also need it down the road when you are ready to sell.

Me, I plan on keeping the trailer a long time so only really considered what we want/need. In the course of time, the difference in resale between our one a/c trailer vs. a two a/c trailer will be negligible. Now, if we were planning on a quick (few years, at most) turnaround things might be different.

Fair enough. I will add/clarify that I’m not only referring to resale value, as it may not add a lot to that. I’m also referring to desirability and ease of a future sale. Many people will overlook a one AC trailer. This applies to all vehicles…it’s much easier to sell a fully loaded or higher trim level car than a basic model. When buying pre-owned, people frequently want “everything” while knowing they are paying far less for it than they would new.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by ourRVstories

Fair enough. I will add/clarify that I’m not only referring to resale value, as it may not add a lot to that. I’m also referring to desirability and ease of a future sale. Many people will overlook a one AC trailer. This applies to all vehicles…it’s much easier to sell a fully loaded or higher trim level car than a basic model. When buying pre-owned, people frequently want “everything” while knowing they are paying far less for it than they would new.

I'd have to see some actual facts and statistics to know what's reality in this.

For example, many people have heard that auto makers stopped selling car & trucks with basic equipment like roll-up windows. Sounds logical that they stopped because no one was buying them. But I've also read that they actually stopped because they make more money by streamlining production to include all the basic options and then charge higher prices for a better outfitted vehicle.

Same with trailers - I'd contend that there is a large market of people looking for affordable Airstreams, probably much larger than the market supplies. Airstream keeps trying to come up with a more basic product that will bring in new and younger customers - why? Because not everyone wants or can afford all the bells and whistles.

I'm not convinced that having a second a/c is a deal breaker for selling a used Airstream, especially for someone who doesn't try and market it in the south.

[F250]

Originally Posted by PeterF66

Question to 27' model owners with only one AC: have you ever had issues cooling down your trailer in hot weather with just the one AC and any issues in only having the 30amp service? We're in the process of upgrading from a 23' and looking at some offerings but only one AC and really have no experience. in the 23' the one AC turns the trailer into a fridge, just don't know if the larger trailer are fine too with just one. Thanks much!

I believe it really depends on how cold you need the room. I have never needed it super cold so my single A/C has been fine. It has also saved me from relatives making the trailer too cold. So if you are fine with the temp being in the 70's on a super hot day, then one A/C is fine. If you need it in the 60's, then you need two. Also, keep in mind it is easier to find a 30 amp RV site than a 50 amp. What do you keep your house A/C temp at in the summer? If it is the 60's then you need two. Mid to upper 70's then one will be fine.

[AgBullet]

Originally Posted by JeffKim

This is an endless debate I know, but we don't plan for the edge conditions. Yes, these are times when two is great, but the rest of the time if you're in the mountains or woods or without electricity (or have room and hassle with a generator) it's hauling a 50A cord and losing a fan. With our 25' we're not in the same boat as something larger, but I doubt I'll ever feel bad we didn't get two.

In the past, the 50A cord was a beast...very heavy and inflexible, especially when cold. With our '23 GT, the cord is much lighter and pliable...not a detractor at all, IMO. I think it's instructive that at least one major east-coast dealer won't order anything 25' and larger without 50A service unless specifically requested by the customer. We have found no downside, and plenty of upside to having 50A/2 a/c.