Campground's/Camper's Too Bright Lights

[adobehome]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

IDK,.... But honestly, liberty reigns here so if you don't like light, perhaps boon docking is in your future.

When did one's liberty take precedent over the those of other's? Noise pollution & ight pollution infringing on the ability of one's neighbors to enjoy their campsite is rude and inconsiderate. Geez! Public campgrounds may need to add rules about lighting use, as well. I know... the preference would be fewer regulations, not more. But, sadly, rules are written for the "lowest common denominators" of our citizenry. Regulations wouldn't be needed if everyone followed the Golden Rule!

[urnmor]

I think I understand where you all are coming from on the lights as I also find them annoying. However my wife and I go camping to enjoy ourselves so we have learnt to setback and just spell the roses knowing to that this shall pass.

Why because have you seen some of the quality of the new campers. I was speaking to a new owner and he said they had to return to before they found one that did not leak. Also I was speaking to a RV repair person and he stated he was repairing roofs that were less then a month old. He guessed that any of the new trailers will be either for sale or not used because they did not hold up.

[57Wanderer]

We have been full-timing for over three years now, and we think that light pollution is getting worse and worse. I always wonder what people are afraid of. Couldn't they just flick their over-the-door light on if they hear something menacing in the middle of the night? I've often thought about printing up a little tear sheet that explains DARK SKY ideas, and placing one on the windshield of offenders, or better still, approaching the offending camper and talking about it with them. We once boondocked in our sister-in-law's driveway in Cape Cod, and every night the neighbor left the very bright light on over the back door. It shone right into our bedroom. Ugh. Otherwise a very dark place. Lots of woods around. Lots of skunks. It was a rental cottage, and on the last day of his stay we struck up a conversation. I asked him why he left the light on over the back door, and he was surprised that it was on, and apologized! A little kindness, conversation and education go a long way. Happy trails to everyone. And if you're looking for dark skies, try the San Luis Valley in Colorado, Borrego Springs in California, western Oregon or Washington. Death Valley, too! Or anywhere along the 395 in California .........

[Acheron2010]

Bottom line, the parks are getting filled with newbies. I am taking personal responsibility to set an example to others on how to behave while camping, and gently encouraging others about the golden rule and etiquette. Remember what a dick you were on the water with your first boat? This phase will pass. Hopefully by tomorrow.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by adobehome

When did one's liberty take precedent over the those of other's? Noise pollution & ight pollution infringing on the ability of one's neighbors to enjoy their campsite is rude and inconsiderate. Geez! Public campgrounds may need to add rules about lighting use, as well. I know... the preference would be fewer regulations, not more. But, sadly, rules are written for the "lowest common denominators" of our citizenry. Regulations wouldn't be needed if everyone followed the Golden Rule!

When one pays for a campsite they freely accept the terms of the contract spelled out by the owners or stewards of the park and are expected to abide by it. If lights (and noise, though I don't recall mentioning it) are allowed, then your attempt to intimidate or shame people into your way of thinking is antithetical to liberty as you gave up your right to darkness when you paid for a campsite that doesn't offer it. I would venture to guess that in a modern full amenity RV park, just as many campers like the light displays as do not. If you don't like the service being provided, you are welcome to move along.

There are no rules or regulations needed. The campsite owner is free to clarify to everyone exactly what they are renting when they sign the agreement. And folks like you are free to find campgrounds that are more to your liking.

[SouthForkAS]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

IDK, maybe it's just me.... But honestly, liberty reigns here so if you don't like light, perhaps boon docking is in your future.

"liberty" (in quotes).
So does courtesy, consideration and just being good neighbors.
Also, county ordinances that prohibit such light pollution (and San Bernardino County is largest in US by land area, covering most of the Mojave and mountains)
But, hey.
You can't shoot everybody

[pcskier]

The private RV Resort I'm currently in...every night these are on after they have gone inside for the night. No way they can't be aware of this. Thankfully, I'm a few rows over and unaffected. And a lot of people say 'just talk to them,' but unfortunately that seems to be more and more likely to wind up being a very unpleasant interaction these days.

[primepower]

I'm thinking a sign posted on my site that politely ask people might help. Something like "only you can prevent light pollution".

[PatLee]

These posts kept reminding me why - as a retiree (a.k.a. A person who no longer works for a living) hates weekends, whether camping or not. Yes, I do have something useful to contribute to the discussion, and that is: if it is dark skies you want, go stay in state parks in Maine, New Hampshire or Vermont. Too far north? Check out Kathryn Abbey Hanna State Park in Jacksonville, FL. The nights are like being in the heart of darkness in a jungle in the Dominican Republic.

[WhereStream]

Too many too-bright lights are definitely a thing, and a more recent thing, as trailers and RVs did not used to come from the factory with so many (or any) outside lights.

I see some of the non-Airstream trailers with big beamers, and sometimes the owners keep them a'blazing long after dark, if not all night.

Hard on starwatchers like me.

The light-in-the-bucket is something I've seen only in the last year or so.

I am, though, hopeful for reform.

Once I had a camping neighbor set up a TV on his picnic table (this was at a Grand Canyon National Park campground) so he could watch a game while he grilled out, the set turned up loud and blaring. I went over and asked if he would mind turning it down. He was embarrassed, said he was unaware it was causing a problem and dialed it to a low and reasonable level. I think this is the case for most lights-on campers — they are not aware this is an issue.

What to do?

Somehow, we need to teach camping ethics. Discussions such as this one will help. So will park rangers, if they post "Light's out!" notices and explain the dark-skies concept.

Nowadays, I'm not inclined to knock on a neighbor's trailer door and make a "Could you please?" request. Too many Americans are not accepting of that approach anymore. But I hold hope that they can be educated as to what is considered good camping and will be happy to abide. It may take a while.

The Dark Skies movement is one I wholly support. I would like to see it gain greater awareness. The night sky needs more friends.

Looking up is a beloved part of camping, once people get in the habit.

[SeeMore]

Originally Posted by SouthForkAS

"liberty" (in quotes).
So does courtesy, consideration and just being good neighbors.

If only that was true and not just an optimistic desire we would not have people fighting in stores about wearing masks which is a life and death matter for some rather than just a nuisance.

Travel long enough and you will experience every type of indifferent camper parked beside you. It is the American way!

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by SouthForkAS

"liberty" (in quotes).
So does courtesy, consideration and just being good neighbors.
Also, county ordinances that prohibit such light pollution (and San Bernardino County is largest in US by land area, covering most of the Mojave and mountains)
But, hey.
You can't shoot everybody

Well of course but in order to exercise courtesy and consideration that person would have to understand that others may not appreciate the decorative display all hours of the evening. I would imagine that to their way of thinking, their light display is the bomb. Depriving someone of their enjoyment so someone else can have theirs. How is that courteous or considerate?

It feels discriminatory and intolerant not to also give the light lovers a place they can show off their displays. In urban, suburban and semi rural areas where the house and streetlights are on all hours seems perfect for RV parks which welcome lights. I was at a campground near Mamouth Caves in late July that was celebrating "Christmas in July" with full light displays.....

[Hittenstiehl]

Liberties & responsibilities go together.

If we all asked ourselves,
"Is what I'm doing negatively affecting others, environment, traffic, etc" we would likely make different decisions.

Often we R&J it to ourselves (Rationalize and Justify) and think no further.

We can no longer refer to it as common sense as is is not Common! You absolutely cannot write every rule or violation because you can't possibly think up the crap people will try.

Examples:
Wonder if my bright lights are going to bother the neighboring trailer.

Wonder if my truck idling for an hour is bothering the next trailer.

Wonder if my yapping dog bothers anyone.

Wonder if my screaming (not joyful play) kids bother anyone.

Wonder if my campfire bothers anyone.

Wonder if my leaving a garbage (bag) at my campsite affects anyone.

We could go on and on.

Now if we can just remember who not to camp next to [emoji4]

[Hittenstiehl]

"It feels discriminatory and intolerant not to also give the light lovers a place they can show off their displays"

Really, I hardly think discriminatory is a word that applies here. Intolerant maybe, lack of patience definitely, assuming other peoples sensibilities (or lack thereof) are the same as your own maybe.

Communal gathering requires more out of the box thinking than that.

Just because they sell it doesn't mean we should buy it or use it in a communal campground.

Next they'll have HOA's at camp grounds, oh wait, they kind of do.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by SilverWind

.....and how about those large exterior mounted TVs that play Fox News 18 hours a day?

Hold me back.
So the "large exterior mounted TVs" don't bother you if they're playing MTV or CNN, but Fox News is the problem?
18 hours a day? Seriously?

[SeeMore]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Hold me back.
Fox News is the problem?
18 hours a day? Seriously?

I read that comment to mean a camper with dementia who choses a channel that repeats the story every few minutes all day long because they can't remember what was said ten minutes earlier which drives those of us with recall batty.

'Been beside them, too. And... then there are those who ask how to activate some element of their RV they can't work or want to borrow your tools (or you) to fix something on their rig because they can't to it themselves or lack the knowledge/parts.

Neighbors just screw up the whole boon docking at the park vibe

[Hittenstiehl]

See, we can do it with most anything. While I just read that TV related post (and would find that annoying) I didn't even notice that it said Fox and I would not have taken offense to that. For me it wouldn't matter to what was on

Go figure.

[AFTER TAXES]

Originally Posted by Jenfm

Just got back from our first longish (ten days) trip. Had a great time, learned a lot about tank capacities, our driving time capacity, etc. Our overwhelming negative takeaway, though, was how much light pollution there is diminishing the camping experience. Anyone else bothered by this? Most campers had numerous lights on all night long (we were mostly in state park campgrounds, not commercial, where I might more likely expect that).

In almost every campground we saw at least one example of the newest trend, which seems to be giant homemade lights built in 5 gallon buckets. One campground (an Arkansas State Park) had a super bright parking lot light smack dab in the middle of the campsites!

We got into an alarming altercation when we asked the owner of a 10,000 watt klieg light/bucket light to find a way to keep his light from obliterating our campfire and view of the amazing stars. It was very disturbing. I hate to think we'd have to stick to boondocking/dispersed camping to get away from the lights. There's not a lot of that in the SE and there aren't many (if any?) Dark Skies parks in the SE, that I know of. We did complain to the rangers in one park and they said there are no light regulations that they know of. But if there's quiet hours why can't there be dark hours?!

you might want to buy some cheese........lol
next place will be much better for you

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by SeeMore

I read that comment to mean a camper with dementia who choses a channel that repeats the story every few minutes all day long because they can't remember what was said ten minutes earlier which drives those of us with recall batty.

Nice try, but that's not what the OP said.

[BayouBiker]

Discriminatory is an apt way to describe advocating for a ban of ones ability to express themselves with decorative lighting but allowing expressions using banners, flags and other props.

I suppose out of the box communal thinking is code for thinking that comports more closely to yours. Diversity and inclusiveness is overrated when it works against your sensibilities. As I suggested earlier, some people might be better off avoiding communal camping and try boondocking instead