Campground shortage

[Adventure.AS]

We stayed in the Caribou-Targhee (Mike Harris) NF - Driggs ID in July. They are doubling the number of campsites from 12 to 24 (all unserviced).

[moosetags]

We recently completed a 73 day, 12,000 mile trip in Lucy (our 25FB) from the Florida Panhandle to the Olympic Peninsula in Washington and back, Our travel dates spanned June 1 through August 12, 2018. Our route took us to Los Angeles, up the entire Pacific coast on California 1 and US 101 to Port Angeles, Washington. We made our way back to Florida via a Moosing stop in Wyoming.

During our trip, we camped a 35 different locations. One stop was at an Airstream friend's place in Port Angeles. The other 34 camping stops were at a combination of state, city, county, and commercial campgrounds. We did not make any advance reservations as we did not have any specific route or or timetable.

We did not have any trouble getting campgrounds along the way. We do carry a generator and were prepared to do Wal-Mart overnights, but did not have to do that. Our travel style is such that far-in-advance campground reservations are not feasible.

Brian

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by MWBishop

Just give it a little time:

1. As the newness wears off, many RVs will rot in storage.
2. When the economy tanks again, many RVs will rot in storage.
3. When fuel price soars again, many RVs will rot in storage.


Up side is that there will be a glut of gently used RV's on the market in the near future.

What he said ^^

[Martee]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

What he said ^^

Originally Posted by MWBishop

Just give it a little time:

1. As the newness wears off, many RVs will rot in storage.
2. When the economy tanks again, many RVs will rot in storage.
3. When fuel price soars again, many RVs will rot in storage.


Up side is that there will be a glut of gently used RV's on the market in the near future.

However, that's not what I see always going to happen. When the economy cycles down again, many people will purchase an RV previously in storage, and stay at KOA or private campgrounds for full time living, with full hookups at $15 per night for years. The 10 year RV rule will be relaxed. Hundreds of campgrounds will no longer be desirable for the drop in and short stay site rentals....who will pay $45 per night for the privilege.

[streaminwild]

I spent a week along the Oregon coast last month. The high temps were 68 lows 58. I have never seen so many rvs, and yes Airstreams along 101. Drove from Astoria to Brookings with beautiful stops along the way. This reminds me of the snowbirds hitting florida during the winter. If you drive inland 20 miles it's 90 degrees. No wonder everyone was crammed in campgrounds within 5 miles from the ocean. One unnerving reminder while driving along the coast was the ''entering tsunami zones'' and ''exiting tsunami zones'' painted on the road. Must go places, Depoe Bay for whale watching. Tillamook for lunch, dinner, ice cream at the Tillamons cheese factory. Seal lion Caves in Florence Oregon, largest sea cave in the U.S. Crater Lake when the fires are out, too smokey to see the dark blue lake.

[MWBishop]

Originally Posted by Martee

However, that's not what I see always going to happen. When the economy cycles down again, many people will purchase an RV previously in storage, and stay at KOA or private campgrounds for full time living, with full hookups at $15 per night for years. The 10 year RV rule will be relaxed. Hundreds of campgrounds will no longer be desirable for the drop in and short stay site rentals....who will pay $45 per night for the privilege.

You have a good point. Could go from bad to worse. Let's hope not.

[blacklab]

I don't know about other states, but in Oregon a % of the Lottery revenue goes to funding our Oregon State Parks. Indeed, there is a new Oregon State Park in Eastern Oregon, funded, in part, with Lottery revenue.

Cheers,

Bryan

[Gene]

Colorado has a new state park too. I think some lottery proceeds proceeds go to parks, but am not all that sure. Jefferson County (adjacent to Denver) has had an open space sales tax for over 40 years and has opened and expanded many parks. These aren’t for RV’s.
a
Colorado state parks are self funded, meaning that no state tax money goes to them. Admission fees are a big part of their budget. With a lot of federal public land, mostly free, there are lots of places to recreate without paying the fees at our state parks. If you camp in a Colorado state park you have to pay admission and then camping fees and there are other charges sometimes too (showers are one). We have camped at a couple of state parks in the past and there were too many bad sites—uneven, very poorly maintained. These were a minority, but a significant one. Parks and wildlife are one department here and hunters seem to dominate policy, so parks are not a big priority. You can find good parks and good sites, but be a bit cautious.

Yes, there will be another recession and travel will slow. Gas prices will go up, maybe at the same time. If you can afford to travel then, good for you. Many will not. Some will sell their RV’s cheap, maybe because they are too old or maybe because they have medical bills to pay not covered by Medicare or maybe because they can’t afford fuel or lost their jobs. Some people will benefit, but most will not. Hopefully a recession will not turn into a depression because of government responses (or lack of them). While recessions happen, they can be contained and reversed with proper policies and let’s hope for that.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Gene

Colorado has a new state park too. I think some lottery proceeds proceeds go to parks, but am not all that sure.


Glad to hear of some new state parks. But I'd be happy with adding more slots to the existing parks. Heck, they don't even need to provide hook ups. Just give us some relief from over-crowding. I'm ok with boon docking.


Hopefully a recession will not turn into a depression because of government responses (or lack of them). While recessions happen, they can be contained and reversed with proper policies and let’s hope for that.

I agree, but I'm not optimistic. It's been 100 years since governments basically stayed out of financial recessions and let the market reset on it's own, usually with a few years. At best they will "kick the can down the road" which prevents the recession from resolving, thereby increasing chances of a depression down the road. It's been 10 years since the financial crisis of '2008.
.

[Gene]

Financial recessions take the longest time to resolve. The Great Depression did not resolve at all in the first 3 years, but after that there was substantial government intervention and things started to get better; in 1936 intervention was reduced and the Depression got worse and intervention had to be restored. It also took a long time. A good source is Picketty's Capitalism in the 21st Century, a book many have bought but few have read (I did proving I am different).

The new Colorado park is, I think, along US 285 and west of Conifer west of Denver. Unused to live kinda close, but that was 18 years ago.

[Acheron2010]

I'm currently traveling from Tennessee to California, and so far, staying in KOAs for the most part. I've been to at least three KOAs in the process of doubling their site space, and also installing more cabins and those tiny homes. Today I am in Colorado Springs, which intends to double their space, and right now on a Thursday after Labor Day, it is packed. Only one other Airstream so far...

[Leilanisteve]

Originally Posted by blacklab

I don't know about other states, but in Oregon a % of the Lottery revenue goes to funding our Oregon State Parks. Indeed, there is a new Oregon State Park in Eastern Oregon, funded, in part, with Lottery revenue.



Cheers,



Bryan

Is that by chance Bates State Park? It’s newer and we stayed there in May.
Steve

[dbj216]

Gene may be referring to Staunton State Park. It is relatively new and just south of Conifer on 285. We were there last weekend for a lovely walk in the ponderosas. The daily fee was $7. The park volunteer said they had parked 350 cars (Labor day Sunday). There is no overnight camping in this park, day use only. It is a good park for rock climbing and mountain biking.

No Airstreams in this state park.

David

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Acheron2010

I'm currently traveling from Tennessee to California, and so far, staying in KOAs for the most part. I've been to at least three KOAs in the process of doubling their site space, and also installing more cabins and those tiny homes. Today I am in Colorado Springs, which intends to double their space, and right now on a Thursday after Labor Day, it is packed. Only one other Airstream so far...

Good to hear. I’ve only stayed in a couple of KOAs over the years. One in DuBois WY, and one in Buena Vista CO. Both were alright as far as peace and quiet go. I was tent camping off of a motorcycle in those days.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Oddly enough .... all of this sort of links together. It's amazing to me just how many state parks we stay at and as you dig into the history of the park ..... "The park was originally started as a project of the CCC in the 1930's ... many of the buildings they put up are still in use today". That's a direct quote from the info poster at this "established in 1955" State park.

Needless to say, FDR's CCC was controversial "back in the day". It's unlikely we will ever see anything like it ever again. They put in a massive inventory of this and that, only some of it got turned into parks. In many ways our judgement of "how many parks should there be" is impacted by the work done back then. National parks every bit as much as state parks saw got a big boost from that effort.

One *practical* way to impact things are local parks / local campgrounds. Efforts in a community are much easier to bring to some sort of positive outcome. Indeed a campground in the town you live in may not help you. It will help *somebody* and I believe that (done right) it can improve your town. Maybe somebody else sees your success and duplicates it in a place you would like to stay ....

If you do decide to go that route, think carefully about what the rules will be and how it will be managed. Also think about and be considerate of the impact on any local private campgrounds. You want to make things better, not start a war.

Bob

[Skybear46]

Regarding the "new" park mentioned it is called Staunton SP and it's been open for 2 or 3 years. However, there are no camping facilities there. Basically, a nice place to hike and picnic.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Oddly enough .... all of this sort of links together. It's amazing to me just how many state parks we stay at and as you dig into the history of the park ..... "The park was originally started as a project of the CCC in the 1930's ... many of the buildings they put up are still in use today". That's a direct quote from the info poster at this "established in 1955" State park.

Needless to say, FDR's CCC was controversial "back in the day". It's unlikely we will ever see anything like it ever again. They put in a massive inventory of this and that, only some of it got turned into parks. In many ways our judgement of "how many parks should there be" is impacted by the work done back then. National parks every bit as much as state parks saw got a big boost from that effort.

One *practical* way to impact things are local parks / local campgrounds. Efforts in a community are much easier to bring to some sort of positive outcome. Indeed a campground in the town you live in may not help you. It will help *somebody* and I believe that (done right) it can improve your town. Maybe somebody else sees your success and duplicates it in a place you would like to stay ....

If you do decide to go that route, think carefully about what the rules will be and how it will be managed. Also think about and be considerate of the impact on any local private campgrounds. You want to make things better, not start a war.

Bob

My late husband, who worked in administration for CETA a number of years, was fascinated by the CCC and its structures all over the country that are still standing today.

Wandering thru older small towns, many of them have a town square with a gazebo/bandstand built by the CCC. He would always point them out, and talk about what a good program it was.

I recently had some experience volunteering with young people enrolled in Job Corps, which isn’t all that dissimilar to CCC and CETA.

Maggie

[GettinAway]

Just spent a week in Custer SP in the Black Hills. There’s evidence of CCC works everywhere. We climbed Harney Peak, now called Black Elk Peak, and there’s a stone lookout tower on top, built by the CCC. In our CG (Stockade Lake South) there are fireplaces throughout the CG that were made by the CCC. There’s a CCC museum there in the visitors center. I can see how it would be controversial and how it would never fly today. They sure did some amazing things back then though.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you go back in the "archives" of the time, the CCC was indeed controversial. Building a lot of "un-needed" structures was the least of it. There were the same sort of payroll padding controversies that get tossed (apparently with sone accuracy) at public construction projects in NYC these days. Some of the yack was politically motivated, apparently some of it was fairly accurate.

Indeed all of the construction did create a building boom "way back then". Anybody who has been driving around on our interstate highways probably would vote for an road (re)building boom. Despite that widespread support ... it still does not happen. Investing in infrastructure is not easy apparently.

One very real advantage they had doing some of the CCC stuff back in the 30's was the permitting process. I can't imagine how complicated the paperwork would be today to do all that stuff out in the wilderness.

=====

Getting back to new campgrounds and how to do it: (at least based on a number of park histories I dug into)

1) You get a local committee together and petition the state to put in a park.

2) They come back and give you a minimum and maximum size spec and send you out to buy the land.

3) You issue bonds (paid by the local taxpayers) and buy the land. Possibly the bonds cover certain improvements to the land as well (like removing that superfund site ...).

4) The state comes in and begins the process of converting the land to a park. That likely goes on for > 10 years.

That all assumes that the state has the money to do the improvements to "make" a park.

Bob

[Leilanisteve]

I guess we were delusional to think that a campsite would be available this weekend for a quick getaway at Ponderosa State Park in McCall, ID. Everything is walk up only now and after a big holiday weekend with school back In session we were hopeful. Well everything was full and this is a very large campground. Obvious evidence tent squatters holding sites for who knows how long makes me upset. We grabbed one of the last handicap sites after six when it was open to anyone. Now we will have to spend today stalking for anything else that comes open if we stay tonight. Not enjoyable in my opinion.
Steve