AS Current Quality of Workmanship

[GettinAway]

I was just curious about Gene’s timing of ownership. I wasn’t intending to criticize him. He often comments about what’s coming off the line right now, recent trends and Airstream motivation. I understand the frustration of his negative experience. I had three bad Ford SUVs, I know if I went to a Ford SUV forum I’d find posts regarding quality issues. I’m not sure though that I could say Ford has less than honorable goals, or no interest in quality.

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
Here is my list for "Cloudsplitter".

Does anything sound familiar?
Sorry, I can't relate to the current "gizmo" failures.
How much has improved?


Posted AS Forums 2006
A LITTLE HISTORY….. MY WIFE SANDRA AND I HAVE BEEN STREAMING SINCE 1989. OUR FIRST WAS A 1963 22 FT. SAFARI. (kind of wish now it was still sitting on the pad) WE PURCHASED OUR 2003 25' CLASSIC IN JUNE OF 2004. BUILD DATE FEB. O3. NOW FOR THE GOOD STUFF.....

ITEMS NOTED BEFORE TAKING DELIVERY THAT WERE FIXED BY THE DEALER.

1) BOTH FRONT SEGMENT PROTECTORS SCRATCHED AND DENTED.

2) REAR BUMPER COVERS CRACKED.

3) ACCESS DOOR UNDER BATHROOM SINK WOULD NOT OPEN, REPAIRED BUT SIEZED SOLID AGAIN BY THE TIME WE GOT HOME FROM THE DEALER.

4) PANTRY SLIDE-OUT OFF BOTH TRACKS, REPAIRED BUT FAILED AGAIN WHEN LOADED ON OUR FIRST TRIP. Took pantry out, removed slide tracks, removed all ball bearings and divided equally between tracks, AS sent replacement tracks, holding as spares until needed.

NOW FOR THE Q/C AND PDI STUFF... IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL CONCERNS LISTED WERE REPAIRED BY MYSELF. THE SELLING DEALER HAD CLOSED.

1) THREE OF THE CLEARANCE LIGHT BULBS.

2) TWO STORAGE COMPARTMENT LIGHT BULBS.

3) TWO SCREEN DOOR PROTECTOR SCREWS MISSED THEIR MARK.

4) BAD VIBRATION IN LEFT FRONT SPEAKER, AGAIN MOUNTING SCREWS MISSED THEIR MARK. SCREWS REPLACED WITH VELCRO TAPE. CLOSE OUT PANEL NOW EASILY REMOVED.

5) WATER PUMP FAILURE CAUSED BY A SEPARATED WIRE INSIDE THE INSULATION WHERE WIRING ENTERS THE PUMP HOUSING….. FAILURE OCCURRED ON OUR FRIST CAMPING TRIP.

6) A MULTITUDE OF PINHOLES IN ACCORDION SHADE OVER SINK.

7) WATER LEAK AT SHOWER MANIFOLD CAUSED BY COLD WATER LINE BEING TOO SHORT.

8) THREE PLASTIC LATCHES FOR CLOSET DOORS AND TWO STORAGE COMPARTMENTS INSTALLED POORLY, MISALIGNMENT, CAUSING LATCH FAILURE.

9) STOVE IGNITER KNOB CRACKED/FAILURE.

10) BATHROOM MIRROR LATCH.

11) … HOLD DOWN SCREWS FOR CONVERTER MISSED THEIR MARK.
SLOPPY/NOISEY WATER PUMP INSTALL & WIRING. INSTALL RUBBER ISOLATION MOUNTS, RE-ROUTE AND SECURE WIRING HARNESS.

12) WATER HEATER<> THERMOSTAT NOT CALIBRATED<>SCALDING TEMP.

13) FRIDGE INTERIOR LIGHT INOP, SWITCH ARM CRACKED

14) KITCHEN SINK SPRAY HANDLE CRACKED,LEAKING WHEN USED.

15) CONSTRUCTION DEBRIS FOUND THRU-OUT TRAILER. BIC LIGHTER & CANDY WRAPPER UNDER RUG IN STREETSIDE REAR COMPARTMENT.

16) AC SHROUD, SKYLIGHT, FF VENT ALL CRACKED AT SCREW MOUNT HOLES FROM IMPROPER INSTALL. Overtightened.

17) BLACK TANK VENT LEAKING, POOR INSTALL/CAULKING. MISSING SCREWS.

18) WATER LINE FITTING UNDER BATHROOM SINK CROSS-THREADED, CRACKED, LEAKING.

19) FILIFORM CORROSION

20) CLEARCOAT PEALING FROM ENTRY DOOR HINGES AND BATTERY DOOR SURROUNDS.

AIRSTREAM DID SEND US THE NECESSARY ITEMS TO MAKE THE REPAIRS ON SOME ITEMS:
WATER PUMP, SHADE, LATCHES FOR CLOSET AND STORAGE DOORS. NEW
DOOR FOR BATHROOM ACCESS, SLIDE FOR PANTRY.
OTHER NECESSARY ITEMS PURCHASED FROM CAMPING WORLD.
I NEVER RECEIVED A CSI REPORT FROM THE FACTORY, OR ANY FOLLOW-UP AT ALL.
THE FACTORY QC WAS LACKING, BUT THE DEALER MUST ASSUME SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR A VERY POOR PDI. WELL I GUESS THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS IT, EXCEPT TO SAY I WAS MORE THAN A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED IN THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE!

Bob
🇺🇸

[Gene]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

Tophious


So why did you take delivery with obvious defects that you find objectionable?

How many people know all the things that are wrong or will go wrong when they take delivery? One side window on ours had improperly installed locks—how would we know? On our 250 mile trip home, the locks failed and the window blew out. Both the dealer and Airstream gave be a hard time about it, but Airstream finally sent me a new window under warranty. I had to install it. Things kept going wrong for years. The dealer seemed to dislike fixing things on warranty, maybe to make more money than Airstream paid them, so they didn't ask for warranty approval on some things. When I finally took it to JC, they fixed all those items the dealer had refused. Nobody can know everything about the trailer when they pick it up and especially those new to RV's are at a major disadvantage.

I looked up Tophious. There is a form of gout with that name and a Marvel character may have that name. A form of fungus perhaps (tophi). I did not need to follow up and really understand the "comment" but it may be an obscure insult (gout is about too much uric acid).

[Gene]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

I was just curious about Gene’s timing of ownership. I wasn’t intending to criticize him. He often comments about what’s coming off the line right now, recent trends and Airstream motivation. I understand the frustration of his negative experience. I had three bad Ford SUVs, I know if I went to a Ford SUV forum I’d find posts regarding quality issues. I’m not sure though that I could say Ford has less than honorable goals, or no interest in quality.

What's happening now is reported frequently on the Forum. It is strange (or depressing) how often it sounds familiar. If I had one "bad" SUV, I'd probably stay way from the brand, two, I definitely would. Tenacity can be good or bad and maybe those SUV's were the best of the bunch. If a company has the same record for many years, doesn't that indicate something about management and their goals?

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

^

Here is my list for "Cloudsplitter".



Does anything sound familiar?

Sorry, I can't relate to the current "gizmo" failures.

How much has improved?





Posted AS Forums 2006

A LITTLE HISTORY….. MY WIFE SANDRA AND I HAVE BEEN STREAMING SINCE 1989. OUR FIRST WAS A 1963 22 FT. SAFARI. (kind of wish now it was still sitting on the pad) WE PURCHASED OUR 2003 25' CLASSIC IN JUNE OF 2004. BUILD DATE FEB. O3. NOW FOR THE GOOD STUFF.....



ITEMS NOTED BEFORE TAKING DELIVERY THAT WERE FIXED BY THE DEALER.



1) BOTH FRONT SEGMENT PROTECTORS SCRATCHED AND DENTED.



2) REAR BUMPER COVERS CRACKED.



3) ACCESS DOOR UNDER BATHROOM SINK WOULD NOT OPEN, REPAIRED BUT SIEZED SOLID AGAIN BY THE TIME WE GOT HOME FROM THE DEALER.



4) PANTRY SLIDE-OUT OFF BOTH TRACKS, REPAIRED BUT FAILED AGAIN WHEN LOADED ON OUR FIRST TRIP. Took pantry out, removed slide tracks, removed all ball bearings and divided equally between tracks, AS sent replacement tracks, holding as spares until needed.



NOW FOR THE Q/C AND PDI STUFF... IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL CONCERNS LISTED WERE REPAIRED BY MYSELF. THE SELLING DEALER HAD CLOSED.



1) THREE OF THE CLEARANCE LIGHT BULBS.



2) TWO STORAGE COMPARTMENT LIGHT BULBS.



3) TWO SCREEN DOOR PROTECTOR SCREWS MISSED THEIR MARK.



4) BAD VIBRATION IN LEFT FRONT SPEAKER, AGAIN MOUNTING SCREWS MISSED THEIR MARK. SCREWS REPLACED WITH VELCRO TAPE. CLOSE OUT PANEL NOW EASILY REMOVED.



5) WATER PUMP FAILURE CAUSED BY A SEPARATED WIRE INSIDE THE INSULATION WHERE WIRING ENTERS THE PUMP HOUSING….. FAILURE OCCURRED ON OUR FRIST CAMPING TRIP.



6) A MULTITUDE OF PINHOLES IN ACCORDION SHADE OVER SINK.



7) WATER LEAK AT SHOWER MANIFOLD CAUSED BY COLD WATER LINE BEING TOO SHORT.



8) THREE PLASTIC LATCHES FOR CLOSET DOORS AND TWO STORAGE COMPARTMENTS INSTALLED POORLY, MISALIGNMENT, CAUSING LATCH FAILURE.



9) STOVE IGNITER KNOB CRACKED/FAILURE.



10) BATHROOM MIRROR LATCH.



11) … HOLD DOWN SCREWS FOR CONVERTER MISSED THEIR MARK.

SLOPPY/NOISEY WATER PUMP INSTALL & WIRING. INSTALL RUBBER ISOLATION MOUNTS, RE-ROUTE AND SECURE WIRING HARNESS.



12) WATER HEATER&lt;&gt; THERMOSTAT NOT CALIBRATED&lt;&gt;SCALDING TEMP.



13) FRIDGE INTERIOR LIGHT INOP, SWITCH ARM CRACKED



14) KITCHEN SINK SPRAY HANDLE CRACKED,LEAKING WHEN USED.



15) CONSTRUCTION DEBRIS FOUND THRU-OUT TRAILER. BIC LIGHTER & CANDY WRAPPER UNDER RUG IN STREETSIDE REAR COMPARTMENT.



16) AC SHROUD, SKYLIGHT, FF VENT ALL CRACKED AT SCREW MOUNT HOLES FROM IMPROPER INSTALL. Overtightened.



17) BLACK TANK VENT LEAKING, POOR INSTALL/CAULKING. MISSING SCREWS.



18) WATER LINE FITTING UNDER BATHROOM SINK CROSS-THREADED, CRACKED, LEAKING.



19) FILIFORM CORROSION



20) CLEARCOAT PEALING FROM ENTRY DOOR HINGES AND BATTERY DOOR SURROUNDS.



AIRSTREAM DID SEND US THE NECESSARY ITEMS TO MAKE THE REPAIRS ON SOME ITEMS:

WATER PUMP, SHADE, LATCHES FOR CLOSET AND STORAGE DOORS. NEW

DOOR FOR BATHROOM ACCESS, SLIDE FOR PANTRY.

OTHER NECESSARY ITEMS PURCHASED FROM CAMPING WORLD.

I NEVER RECEIVED A CSI REPORT FROM THE FACTORY, OR ANY FOLLOW-UP AT ALL.

THE FACTORY QC WAS LACKING, BUT THE DEALER MUST ASSUME SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR A VERY POOR PDI. WELL I GUESS THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS IT, EXCEPT TO SAY I WAS MORE THAN A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED IN THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE!



Bob

[emoji631]

Nope - 2019 27 International Serenity. None of the above problems. Took delivery and everything worked.

First failure was at 3 months - skylight seal failed and water got between the layers. Sent pics to dealer, got new part replaced within 2 weeks of issue. Did some upgrades but not warranty stuff. After a year chrome on rear lights and grab handle started to pit, also replaced under warranty - no question. Upgrade batteries to lithium dealer handled at fair price.

Trailer has about 75 nights camping and 5000 or so miles.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by JonDNC

Nope - 2019 27 International Serenity. None of the above problems. Took delivery and everything worked.

First failure was at 3 months - skylight seal failed and water got between the layers. Sent pics to dealer, got new part replaced within 2 weeks of issue. Did some upgrades but not warranty stuff. After a year chrome on rear lights and grab handle started to pit, also replaced under warranty - no question. Upgrade batteries to lithium dealer handled at fair price.

Trailer has about 75 nights camping and 5000 or so miles.

Excellent
Keep them crossed....

Bob
🇺🇸

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Gene

What's happening now is reported frequently on the Forum. It is strange (or depressing) how often it sounds familiar. If I had one "bad" SUV, I'd probably stay way from the brand, two, I definitely would. Tenacity can be good or bad and maybe those SUV's were the best of the bunch. If a company has the same record for many years, doesn't that indicate something about management and their goals?

I see your point. It seems to me that many here, including myself have come to the forum at times looking for help. I upgraded my converter in our 2011 FC FB thanks to advice received from members. I just can’t make the leap that the issues represented here reflect on the total production of Airstream. How many members here? How many airstreams ever produced? Of all posts here how many are true airstream quality issues? I just can’t take that information and draw any real conclusions. It’s totally fine that you can. I was curious if you had additional information or resources that gave you additional insight into airstream’s corporate goals, strategies, and results. No offense intended.

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
Goals & stragidy....$$$$$$$.
One plus...the dividend's adequate.

Bob
🇺🇸

[GettinAway]

Kind of the American way, right? Seems to be working. I’ll bet quality would improve dramatically if the government took over.

[paiceman]

I've read the thread, we have owned five Airstreams, all new and now own a 2020 28' FC Twin. Each one has shown improvement in workmanship and design than the previous ones.

This one had an issue that surprised Airstream management but was fixed under warranty and details shared with operatons. We pulled into our first campground and hooked up, all worked, except the TV cable. I checked all around and found nothing wrong that I could see. So, pulled the connection off the side of the trailer - no wires, not the cable connection nor the satelite connection were connected OR could be found initially, but I did eventually find them, but still no TV. Our dealer Ansley RV in PA took us in quickly and made the fix with the support of Jackson Center. So far that is it.

I guess in my career I've been privilaged to be one who ran a factory, a pretty good sized one at 1,500 employees on three shifts. Our two biggest challenges were number one employees and employee retention. Once we had an employee on board and trained they would leave for a small increase in hourly wage - Airstream is no different. Turnover is a major issue as is the subsequent necessary training to bring new employees up to standard. So, the non connected TV cables was I am confident a new employee who could not find the cables behind the cabinets and shift ended, put the cover on and went home. The second major issue we and all factories face is vendor supply, both in on time and quality. Both are decreasing as time moves forward, just ask a car/truck dealer if the factory has all the parts they need when they need them.

I'm not making excuses for the issues covered nor the lack of TV cable hook up on our trailer, nor did the dealer or factory, but it's fact. We should expect a "perfect" Airstream as they cost more than twice the competitor but factory workers are not only in relatively short supply but human. Plus with other factories near by the "grass is always greener" and people leave, factory work is not easy and not a piece of cake, especially where the product is hand built, so often I am sure employees leave for an automated factory where the work is easier and simpiler.

While having five Airstreams we have also owned a number of other brands in the past 40 years, switching as our lifestyle changes and or needs/wants change. None, were perfect except for a large Newmar Bus, it had a floor issue that Newmar contacted us on but we never noticed, some kind of color missmatch. The others including a top end 44' 5th wheel had a number of issues and as with many Airstream issues mainly vendor provided products.

We kept coming back to Airstream, no matter what we had in between as we like the look, we like the ease of operation, we like the relative simplicity and we like the factory and the three dealers we've used over the years. This is probably our last RV and hope to enjoy it for several years to come. As an aside Thor purchased Airstream in 1980 and it was their second RV purchase as they already owned the HiLo brand. Airstream had lost about $12million year prior to purchase and the first year under Thor they were returned to profitability. Thor purchased Airstream from Beatrice Foods, so to blame Thor for quality issues today is simply mistaken logic in my opinion.

Enjoy Life - It's not a rehearsal.

Bud

[jaybauman]

Occasionally, someone pulls some anecdotal data and claims that Airstream quality is no better than it has ever been. Others say it’s worse than ever. Of this subset, some claim the preponderance of bad experiences on this forum is an indicator that quality is getting worse. Several folks that have been participating in Airforums for a long time have noted that the ratio of “bad news” to “good news” is at an all-time high, and increasing all the more. I think I can explain these trends in a different way.

I joined the forum in 2017 and didn’t get an Airstream (our first-ever RV) until early 2019. As a novice, I have found the user stories and collective experience invaluable in helping us decide, purchase, prep, camp, sell, and purchase again. I’ve used the search function to learn how to use, diagnose, repair, and (unfortunately!) replace parts and components, so I’ve read a lot of content that spans the last 12-15 years of posts. I observe that there are a lot more negative posts and and problems and the quantity of positive/fun posts has decreased.

Two other trends correlate with this observation: There are more Airstreams on the road, and the rise of Facebook/Instagram/etc. The explosive growth in the RV market over the last decade means there are a lot more Airstream owners, and a lot of novice (like me) campers. We recognize the vast wealth of knowledge within the user base and historical record, so we post our problems and issues. Even if quality remained constant, more owners = more problems. Over time, Airforums has become the problem venting, diagnosing, sharing, and fixing forum.

But what about the good news and fun stories? That market segment, my friends, is now owned by the likes of Instagram, Facebook, and other social media. As more younger people (or, at least the next generation) enjoy Airstream ownership, as a class, they are much more likely to post the happy thoughts and success stories on social media. Just take a gander at any Airstream page on FB or IG: In general, they are very happy places where happy campers are happily exhibiting their latest whatevers for whomever to see and comment on. Without a doubt, these media are thriving. Some fraction of the savvy social media fiends are posting their happy stories there, instead of here on Airforums.

A healthy, thriving culture is not constant; it changes over time. I believe this forum is a healthy, thriving place. Perhaps it is just evolving into the problem-solving arm of the Airstream user experience. Do a search for “Airstream” on the ‘Gram if you want a healthy dose of the “Good News Show.”

As a scientist, conclusions should be based on hard data. For the reasons above, one simply cannot say Airstream quality is worse than before based on the quality/quantity of “problem posts” on the various fora.

As for my personal experience, I had 2 major problems with my 2019 Flying Cloud. My water heater was unreliable (3 control boards—including a Dinosaur board!—died, electric element died, thermal cutoff fuse gave up the ghost; this thing didn’t work correctly on 75% of the nights we used it!) and I had a leaky Fantastic Fan due to very poor application of sealant from the factory (I’ve got the pics to prove it). Airstream didn’t make my water heater; that’s a Dometic problem. And with a near-monopoly on the market, we have to live with Dometic’s crap. I do hold Airstream accountable for the poor sealant application. However, 1 problem on a trailer as large and complicated as mine? Give me a break. I’m happy I only had 1 major issue. I can happily live with that.

Keep on providing help and experiences to further knowledge in the Airstream space!

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

I was just curious about Gene’s timing of ownership. I wasn’t intending to criticize him. He often comments about what’s coming off the line right now, recent trends and Airstream motivation. I understand the frustration of his negative experience. I had three bad Ford SUVs, I know if I went to a Ford SUV forum I’d find posts regarding quality issues. I’m not sure though that I could say Ford has less than honorable goals, or no interest in quality.

Friends don't let friends buy Ford's 😃

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by paiceman

I've read the thread, we have owned five Airstreams, all new and now own a 2020 28' FC Twin. Each one has shown improvement in workmanship and design than the previous ones.

This one had an issue that surprised Airstream management but was fixed under warranty and details shared with operatons. We pulled into our first campground and hooked up, all worked, except the TV cable. I checked all around and found nothing wrong that I could see. So, pulled the connection off the side of the trailer - no wires, not the cable connection nor the satelite connection were connected OR could be found initially, but I did eventually find them, but still no TV. Our dealer Ansley RV in PA took us in quickly and made the fix with the support of Jackson Center. So far that is it.

I guess in my career I've been privilaged to be one who ran a factory, a pretty good sized one at 1,500 employees on three shifts. Our two biggest challenges were number one employees and employee retention. Once we had an employee on board and trained they would leave for a small increase in hourly wage - Airstream is no different. Turnover is a major issue as is the subsequent necessary training to bring new employees up to standard. So, the non connected TV cables was I am confident a new employee who could not find the cables behind the cabinets and shift ended, put the cover on and went home. The second major issue we and all factories face is vendor supply, both in on time and quality. Both are decreasing as time moves forward, just ask a car/truck dealer if the factory has all the parts they need when they need them.

I'm not making excuses for the issues covered nor the lack of TV cable hook up on our trailer, nor did the dealer or factory, but it's fact. We should expect a "perfect" Airstream as they cost more than twice the competitor but factory workers are not only in relatively short supply but human. Plus with other factories near by the "grass is always greener" and people leave, factory work is not easy and not a piece of cake, especially where the product is hand built, so often I am sure employees leave for an automated factory where the work is easier and simpiler.

While having five Airstreams we have also owned a number of other brands in the past 40 years, switching as our lifestyle changes and or needs/wants change. None, were perfect except for a large Newmar Bus, it had a floor issue that Newmar contacted us on but we never noticed, some kind of color missmatch. The others including a top end 44' 5th wheel had a number of issues and as with many Airstream issues mainly vendor provided products.

We kept coming back to Airstream, no matter what we had in between as we like the look, we like the ease of operation, we like the relative simplicity and we like the factory and the three dealers we've used over the years. This is probably our last RV and hope to enjoy it for several years to come. As an aside Thor purchased Airstream in 1980 and it was their second RV purchase as they already owned the HiLo brand. Airstream had lost about $12million year prior to purchase and the first year under Thor they were returned to profitability. Thor purchased Airstream from Beatrice Foods, so to blame Thor for quality issues today is simply mistaken logic in my opinion.

Enjoy Life - It's not a rehearsal.

Bud

Given that Thor has owned Airstream for 40 years, why wouldn't you "blame them for quality issues today" ?
Also,Ohio is Union State for making things on tires, in general.
The Airstream Jackson Center plant is non-Union, I recently learned here.
My opinion, as someone who's very familiar with Ohio manufacturing plants and Unions, is that contributes to the quality issues y'all are seeing here.
That's why these forums are fun, the truth gets flushed out into the open, despite the efforts of Airstream fans here.Its like learning here that Airstream is finalIy putting composite ( non rotting) floors in their trailers, after how many years of junk untreated wood flooring??
And that's in the most expensive trailers made...lol Please, let's have some fanboys here defend that particular Airstream "Quest for Quality" ....I can't wait for that lol

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by paiceman

I've read the thread, we have owned five Airstreams, all new and now own a 2020 28' FC Twin. Each one has shown improvement in workmanship and design than the previous ones.

This one had an issue that surprised Airstream management but was fixed under warranty and details shared with operatons. We pulled into our first campground and hooked up, all worked, except the TV cable. I checked all around and found nothing wrong that I could see. So, pulled the connection off the side of the trailer - no wires, not the cable connection nor the satelite connection were connected OR could be found initially, but I did eventually find them, but still no TV. Our dealer Ansley RV in PA took us in quickly and made the fix with the support of Jackson Center. So far that is it.

I guess in my career I've been privilaged to be one who ran a factory, a pretty good sized one at 1,500 employees on three shifts. Our two biggest challenges were number one employees and employee retention. Once we had an employee on board and trained they would leave for a small increase in hourly wage - Airstream is no different. Turnover is a major issue as is the subsequent necessary training to bring new employees up to standard. So, the non connected TV cables was I am confident a new employee who could not find the cables behind the cabinets and shift ended, put the cover on and went home. The second major issue we and all factories face is vendor supply, both in on time and quality. Both are decreasing as time moves forward, just ask a car/truck dealer if the factory has all the parts they need when they need them.

I'm not making excuses for the issues covered nor the lack of TV cable hook up on our trailer, nor did the dealer or factory, but it's fact. We should expect a "perfect" Airstream as they cost more than twice the competitor but factory workers are not only in relatively short supply but human. Plus with other factories near by the "grass is always greener" and people leave, factory work is not easy and not a piece of cake, especially where the product is hand built, so often I am sure employees leave for an automated factory where the work is easier and simpiler.

While having five Airstreams we have also owned a number of other brands in the past 40 years, switching as our lifestyle changes and or needs/wants change. None, were perfect except for a large Newmar Bus, it had a floor issue that Newmar contacted us on but we never noticed, some kind of color missmatch. The others including a top end 44' 5th wheel had a number of issues and as with many Airstream issues mainly vendor provided products.

We kept coming back to Airstream, no matter what we had in between as we like the look, we like the ease of operation, we like the relative simplicity and we like the factory and the three dealers we've used over the years. This is probably our last RV and hope to enjoy it for several years to come. As an aside Thor purchased Airstream in 1980 and it was their second RV purchase as they already owned the HiLo brand. Airstream had lost about $12million year prior to purchase and the first year under Thor they were returned to profitability. Thor purchased Airstream from Beatrice Foods, so to blame Thor for quality issues today is simply mistaken logic in my opinion.

Enjoy Life - It's not a rehearsal.

Bud

5?...What, can't find one you like?😂
...the CEO of Thor got a $600k+ Christmas present last year.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Bcc75]

Originally Posted by jaybauman

Occasionally, someone pulls some anecdotal data and claims that Airstream quality is no better than it has ever been. Others say it’s worse than ever. Of this subset, some claim the preponderance of bad experiences on this forum is an indicator that quality is getting worse. Several folks that have been participating in Airforums for a long time have noted that the ratio of “bad news” to “good news” is at an all-time high, and increasing all the more. I think I can explain these trends in a different way.

I joined the forum in 2017 and didn’t get an Airstream (our first-ever RV) until early 2019. As a novice, I have found the user stories and collective experience invaluable in helping us decide, purchase, prep, camp, sell, and purchase again. I’ve used the search function to learn how to use, diagnose, repair, and (unfortunately!) replace parts and components, so I’ve read a lot of content that spans the last 12-15 years of posts. I observe that there are a lot more negative posts and and problems and the quantity of positive/fun posts has decreased.

Two other trends correlate with this observation: There are more Airstreams on the road, and the rise of Facebook/Instagram/etc. The explosive growth in the RV market over the last decade means there are a lot more Airstream owners, and a lot of novice (like me) campers. We recognize the vast wealth of knowledge within the user base and historical record, so we post our problems and issues. Even if quality remained constant, more owners = more problems. Over time, Airforums has become the problem venting, diagnosing, sharing, and fixing forum.

But what about the good news and fun stories? That market segment, my friends, is now owned by the likes of Instagram, Facebook, and other social media. As more younger people (or, at least the next generation) enjoy Airstream ownership, as a class, they are much more likely to post the happy thoughts and success stories on social media. Just take a gander at any Airstream page on FB or IG: In general, they are very happy places where happy campers are happily exhibiting their latest whatevers for whomever to see and comment on. Without a doubt, these media are thriving. Some fraction of the savvy social media fiends are posting their happy stories there, instead of here on Airforums.

A healthy, thriving culture is not constant; it changes over time. I believe this forum is a healthy, thriving place. Perhaps it is just evolving into the problem-solving arm of the Airstream user experience. Do a search for “Airstream” on the ‘Gram if you want a healthy dose of the “Good News Show.”

As a scientist, conclusions should be based on hard data. For the reasons above, one simply cannot say Airstream quality is worse than before based on the quality/quantity of “problem posts” on the various fora.

As for my personal experience, I had 2 major problems with my 2019 Flying Cloud. My water heater was unreliable (3 control boards—including a Dinosaur board!—died, electric element died, thermal cutoff fuse gave up the ghost; this thing didn’t work correctly on 75% of the nights we used it!) and I had a leaky Fantastic Fan due to very poor application of sealant from the factory (I’ve got the pics to prove it). Airstream didn’t make my water heater; that’s a Dometic problem. And with a near-monopoly on the market, we have to live with Dometic’s crap. I do hold Airstream accountable for the poor sealant application. However, 1 problem on a trailer as large and complicated as mine? Give me a break. I’m happy I only had 1 major issue. I can happily live with that.

Keep on providing help and experiences to further knowledge in the Airstream space!

Well said jaybauman, I think you are spot on!

I had Dometic Refrigerator issues, Zip Dee Awning Issues (installed incorrectly by Airstream, and a Plumbing leak due to faulty installation by Airstream. We figured all of this out within 1 week of taking delivery.
But....I knew there was the potential for this. All good now (hopefully)
Still , I would not have gone with anything else. I have owned SOB's and understand that despite the issues, Airstream is still a better product than most. The Best...maybe not, but better than most for sure.

[panamerican]

I don't think the vast majority of the complaints I've read or drew my attention are one off. I think that if your water heater fails or your fridge, etc, you are right, it's a Dometic thing, but how they are installed is the point.

For example, the sexy range hoods they installed, they kept mysteriously shutting down. This forum found the eventual fix, put a different part in, while from what I understand, Airstream's fix was to remove the thermal sensor completely. From what I read this went on for at least 3-4 model years. Root cause that I read- Airstream did not follow the manufacturers installation requirements for distance. Don't know if they have solved that problem or not, may have since I haven't heard many complaints about it as read in the past threads, but I don't know if the fix was simply to remove it at unit construction.

Caulk. It's a regular complaint. Look over the years by doing a search. Don't misunderstand me, I get that it's a rolling house, but caulk is flexible and if applied properly, can be extremely effective, yet doing a search here yield caulking problem galore and leaks some not detected until it's too late. One of my wheel wells had zero caulking...not the inner or outer well, guess what happened. Honest mistake, most likely, but it's not an isolated case., again doing a search can expand better than I can. I will say that I can understand how my unit still passed the monsoon test, they don't spray test that area, but skylights, Fantastic vent on roof- just don't see how these can make it past that massive monsoon chamber and still get shipped.

Corrosion. I think they finally have a handle on this one, but it took them nearly 10-14 years to get it to where it is today. Again, do a search for the data, it's all there for the reading on this and many others.

Damaged trim, damaged floors, using the wrong fasteners or not entirely correct mounting supports, overhead lockers falling off, key fasteners stripped and no bite to hold. Yes, these are industry wide problems, but at about 2x the cost or more, plus the marketing and iconic following, the perception the company build does fall short quite a bit. I'm wrestling right now as I type this about making a change in model (still Airstream) and after owning two that had problems as described. After reading the forum from a fair number of folks lately it still seems sort of hit or miss, so I question if I would want to roll the dice on a new unit and have at best a 50/50 shot at having to go through around 2 years of BS all over again. I had 3-4 pages of issues I brought to the factory service center, all were covered, but I had never expected to have 3-4 pages of fixes necessary, and that makes no mention of the things I fixed or learned to fix on my own. With the massive backlog right now, my gut tells me to wait it out for the dust to settle, because if there were problems with 15-19 trailers a week, what could I expect when they push it to 25-30 a week or more? This is no small investment.

These are just a few examples. No human being is perfect and I get these are hand built, my complaint is that Airstream is quick to jack up the prices, and come up with interesting new interior designs (I mean look at those rear hatch units- simply marvelous), but I don't feel the designs are tested very well. The engineers I'm sure use best practices, but we all know the real world applications tend to behave outside the parameters at times, making the customer the test subjects of sorts.

The bottom line as I see it is that the entire RV industry should adopt some of the established quality methods that are out there. How will this work with what Paiceman states on turnover? I can't answer that, but I am betting with high turnover, we all just have to cross our fingers and hope.

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
+2

This "caulk" was 18mos old, plus something else was missing...plenty of holes not enough fasteners.👎

Bob
🇺🇸

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by paiceman

I've read the thread, we have owned five Airstreams, all new and now own a 2020 28' FC Twin. Each one has shown improvement in workmanship and design than the previous ones.

This one had an issue that surprised Airstream management but was fixed under warranty and details shared with operatons. We pulled into our first campground and hooked up, all worked, except the TV cable. I checked all around and found nothing wrong that I could see. So, pulled the connection off the side of the trailer - no wires, not the cable connection nor the satelite connection were connected OR could be found initially, but I did eventually find them, but still no TV. Our dealer Ansley RV in PA took us in quickly and made the fix with the support of Jackson Center. So far that is it.

I guess in my career I've been privilaged to be one who ran a factory, a pretty good sized one at 1,500 employees on three shifts. Our two biggest challenges were number one employees and employee retention. Once we had an employee on board and trained they would leave for a small increase in hourly wage - Airstream is no different. Turnover is a major issue as is the subsequent necessary training to bring new employees up to standard. So, the non connected TV cables was I am confident a new employee who could not find the cables behind the cabinets and shift ended, put the cover on and went home. The second major issue we and all factories face is vendor supply, both in on time and quality. Both are decreasing as time moves forward, just ask a car/truck dealer if the factory has all the parts they need when they need them.

I'm not making excuses for the issues covered nor the lack of TV cable hook up on our trailer, nor did the dealer or factory, but it's fact. We should expect a "perfect" Airstream as they cost more than twice the competitor but factory workers are not only in relatively short supply but human. Plus with other factories near by the "grass is always greener" and people leave, factory work is not easy and not a piece of cake, especially where the product is hand built, so often I am sure employees leave for an automated factory where the work is easier and simpiler.

While having five Airstreams we have also owned a number of other brands in the past 40 years, switching as our lifestyle changes and or needs/wants change. None, were perfect except for a large Newmar Bus, it had a floor issue that Newmar contacted us on but we never noticed, some kind of color missmatch. The others including a top end 44' 5th wheel had a number of issues and as with many Airstream issues mainly vendor provided products.

We kept coming back to Airstream, no matter what we had in between as we like the look, we like the ease of operation, we like the relative simplicity and we like the factory and the three dealers we've used over the years. This is probably our last RV and hope to enjoy it for several years to come. As an aside Thor purchased Airstream in 1980 and it was their second RV purchase as they already owned the HiLo brand. Airstream had lost about $12million year prior to purchase and the first year under Thor they were returned to profitability. Thor purchased Airstream from Beatrice Foods, so to blame Thor for quality issues today is simply mistaken logic in my opinion.

Enjoy Life - It's not a rehearsal.

Bud

Given that Thor has owned Airstream for 40 years, why wouldn't you "blame them for quality issues today" ?
Also,Ohio is Union State for making things on tires, in general.
The Airstream Jackson Center plant is non-Union, I recently learned here.My opinion, as someone who's very familiar with Ohio manufacturing plants and Unions, is that explains the quality issues y'all are seeing here.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by B. Cole

Given that Thor has owned Airstream for 40 years, why wouldn't you "blame them for quality issues today" ?
Also,Ohio is Union State for making things on tires, in general.
The Airstream Jackson Center plant is non-Union, I recently learned here.
My opinion, as someone who's very familiar with Ohio manufacturing plants and Unions, is that contributes to the quality issues y'all are seeing here

I did not know that Airstream was a non-union shop. So are you saying that because they are non-union this is the root cause of the QC issues? Taking that a step further, given the high turnover that has been suggested, you are saying a union job would create more stability in retaining said employees, thus improving quality of the build?

I don't really know. My perspective from education unions has been that the non-union shops tend to make more, but have fewer protections. The union shops tend to make a bit less and there are processes for everything from soup to nuts. Don't know if that translates same to manufacturing.

One other perception is that most all auto manufacturers have been unionized for nearly a century, and I recall the 70s and 80s in particular in terms of domestic production that the quality was dismal.

[lsbrodsky]

Bah, humbug! I do not buy into the union/non-union theory. It is more about strategy, goals, and motivation. No doubt a non-union shop gives Airstream more flexibility, but I have no idea how, or if, they use that flexibility. I am not speculating; I have managed both kinds of companies.
I continue to believe Airstream has no reason to increase quality because they sell all they can make and really improving the quality is a gut-wrenching transition that would greatly affect production, in a negative way, for a while.
Larry