AS Current Quality of Workmanship

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by B. Cole

Given that Thor has owned Airstream for 40 years, why wouldn't you "blame them for quality issues today" ?
Also,Ohio is Union State for making things on tires, in general.
The Airstream Jackson Center plant is non-Union, I recently learned here.
My opinion, as someone who's very familiar with Ohio manufacturing plants and Unions, is that contributes to the quality issues y'all are seeing here.
That's why these forums are fun, the truth gets flushed out into the open, despite the efforts of Airstream fans here.Its like learning here that Airstream is finalIy putting composite ( non rotting) floors in their trailers, after how many years of junk untreated wood flooring??
And that's in the most expensive trailers made...lol Please, let's have some fanboys here defend that particular Airstream "Quest for Quality" ....I can't wait for that lol

Quality was no better under Beatrice foods. I’ve run Union and no Union plants, I’ll take none Union any day. It’s not the workers it’s the Union bosses who had issues with. One
Plant I had voted the Union out, and became company employees.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by gln826

An '04 and '11 aren't newer models, but more to the point, it would seem to be a sad way to live being so cynical. 10,000's of happy owners are much more happy.

What really is the point of a thread like that, with most trashers not even owning an AS anymore. Anecdotal stories and complaints on message boards isn't data, it's internet drivel.

I would love to know where and how you came up with 10k happy owners. If Airstream makes 1500 to 3000 trailers a year, you would need a sampling of happy campers (those with few problems) between 3.25 and about 6.5 years. I see the happy campers here on the forum that you speak of, but I don't see 10,000 individuals. I do however see a higher than normal of folks on this forum, crossing nearly a decade or more, actual owners, with pictures that we can easily quantify as far back as around 2003 to present some issue that randomly appear, and some that seem systemic. My data comes from using the search button on this forum. If folks simply don't indicate an issue and are quiet about it or do not participate on RV forums to share any problems, small or large, are they too included in your 10,000 count of satisfied owners?

I am an owner of 2 Airstream trailers. Both had lists of problems just like folks have been describing on this forum for at least a decade, maybe more. Are my experiences any less valid or that easy to discount compared to the other side of the coin where another owner has been nearly trouble free?!

Though true, Airstream is better than most SOBs, I just can't accept that viewpoint entirely because if SOBs we all know are garbage, how is that a shout out or a kudos to Airstream??

I am in the market for another RV and it will be an Airstream, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me 2x, shame on me. I am honestly on the ropes of buying new or just getting a preowned that may have had most of the shake down issues fixed.

[BayouBiker]

10's of thousands is what most would recognize as an illustration to mean many many more happy owners than the cynical few (not the full set of those who report issues, resolve them and are happy about their trailer) who seem drone on and on as if they think doing so is going to change anything.

Since you're no fan of illustrations, please define quantitatively what is a normal number of folks gong back to 2003 who report problems as opposed to the higher than normal folks on this forum who report problems. What percentage of those reporting a quality issue are disgruntled and dissatisfied with their Airstream and what percentage are happy despite having one or more quality issues?

I wonder, since we are looking at things affecting overall owner satisfaction, industry wide, what is the average number of quality issues for all brands and models? I wonder too, on average, how many issues owners generally tolerate before becoming displeased with their trailer.

[Halford1]

I wonder if Airstream would send a survey to each of us owners in USA with postmarked return envelope. I would love to see that happen and see what we say about Airstream and its quality.

[BayouBiker]

There are a couple pay sites that charge about $100 for ownership survey and warranty experience for Rv's and travel trailers. The results may very well surprise the Airstream cynics.

[Gene]

What a surprise! No one’s mind has changed and snide comments are still posted.

[BayouBiker]

I think you're misreading my intent. The metaphors acurately describe and set apart the different viewpoints. They are not value judgements. I completely agree that nothing changes here and probably won't. Airstream is likely very aware of overall customer perceptions and is very likely to respond to any change in those metrics.

[skyguyscott]

Hopefully things at Jackson Center are going to get better. Perhaps with a new plant, they will also bring in some new production procedures that will start to mirror what the automotive industry has done with continuous improvement, TPS, six sigma, and so on.

Regarding the plywood floors, it’s long been a contentious issue with the classic travel trailer. The plywood floors tend to last about a decade or so before they start to become soft, or moldy, or rot away, depending on the climate they’re in, the owner, and other factors.

We really should, however, give Thor and airstream credit for finally doing some thing that promises to take care of this Achilles’ heel once and for all. The one piece composite floor is perhaps the biggest and most significant improvement in airstream trailers in many decades. Yes, it took them forever to make this improvement, but it nevertheless has come to pass, and we should all be grateful and thankful that the company is doing something positive in this regard.

[Tim A.]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Yes, it took them forever to make this improvement, but it nevertheless has come to pass, and we should all be grateful and thankful that the company is doing something positive in this regard.

I think it is very probable that the delay was not necessarily due to Airstream. Obtaining a material with the structural strength of wood, not significantly heavier, and capable of securely accepting screws might not have been easy. It is worth noting that the material they are using has only recently become available.

Tim

[BayouBiker]

Tim, also the elasticity of the material when secured to the frame needed to be match the flex characteristics of the shell otherwise issues worse than floor rot is likely to be a consequence.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Bob
����


HeeHee

HeeHee? You’ll have to explain this one to me..

I guess if there’s only two groups, whiners and cool aid drinkers, I’m drinking it up..

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

HeeHee? You’ll have to explain this one to me..

No, I don't.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[Jasper Ash]

This thread is still going? Lol! It’s clear that some have had bad experiences, others are very happy. It’s 2021... I would assume that most of us have accepted that it is what it is. Quality in anything is just not what it used to be. We buy the product and we take the risk but hope for the best.

I’ve done my fair share of complaining about Airstreams quality but now that I’ve had a year to live full time in my Airstream and work through some issues and learn to live with others, I’m still very happy with my purchase. I’ve been to RV shows since purchasing my Airstream and I’m still convinced it’s the best in the market (not including golden toilets like Bowlus).

Airstream it up or don’t.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

No, I don't.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

Well I guess you can’t.

I don’t like Kate whining either..

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

10's of thousands is what most would recognize as an illustration to mean many many more happy owners than the cynical few (not the full set of those who report issues, resolve them and are happy about their trailer) who seem drone on and on as if they think doing so is going to change anything.

Since you're no fan of illustrations, please define quantitatively what is a normal number of folks gong back to 2003 who report problems as opposed to the higher than normal folks on this forum who report problems. What percentage of those reporting a quality issue are disgruntled and dissatisfied with their Airstream and what percentage are happy despite having one or more quality issues?

I wonder, since we are looking at things affecting overall owner satisfaction, industry wide, what is the average number of quality issues for all brands and models? I wonder too, on average, how many issues owners generally tolerate before becoming displeased with their trailer.

10s of thousands....many of which don't even know how to use a computer...yes, I was a WBCCI member at one point...and though the club has clearly changed with younger more savvy owners with access to forums and social media like this site, a fair number of more tenure members and owners (non-members) have almost no avenue to report the good or bad, so your points are somewhat anecdotal at best. 10s of thousands. You offer this without any real metrics, so how can one take this as an accurate representation? Answer: You cannot. You are making somewhat of a general assumption that no news is good news. I'm sure there are many happy owners, but I can't quantify that as easily as you do...and what about a subset of happy that sure they like the trailer as I do, but didn't care for the multitude (10+ pages on several visits) of problems and time it took to get to the happy state? I think you tend to oversimplify and cloud the conversation at times, not always, but in this regard, it seems clear you have an agenda and trying to proving people wrong here doesn't do your position or case any justice.

If you have actually read my posts on this, I invite you and any other reader to use this forum's search button...use terms like leaks, quality, airstream issues, corrosion, problems, etc (filter out any Dometic, or non-Airstream specific problems). If you do what I've suggested, you can easily do a tally, I'm not going to spoon feed you. If you want to see the data, you have to do the work to find it. It's all here on this forum. Now I don't say the info on this forum that you will read is scientific by any means, but it does beg the question when you read these posts with an open mind and a keen eye, just what the heck is going on in Jackson Center sometimes? On this thread, I personally learned that Airstream is not a union shop. Nothing wrong with that, but if the comments on high turnover are even remotely true, there could be the answer as to why there are ecstatic customers such as yourself, and happy, but very frustrated at times customers like me. I just find it so amusing that folks will go to the mattress and dig in on any opinion or experience that differs from theirs. I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm simply stating my experience with two new Airstream trailers and what I've read here on this forum and my interactions with folks where I have attended rallies. I have added some opinion and personal conclusion at times. I have no reason to believe anyone who has communicated a good or bad experience is a troll (for the most part). I'm even considering another Airstream in the short term. If I were that disgruntled, I wouldn't be on this forum or considering buying yet another one...but at the very least I am second and third time around going into it with my eyes open. My posts are not designed to scare people off, but I do tell a cautionary tale, what the reader pulls from it, is up to them, but hopefully they too can go into it with the eyes open on the collective info (good or bad) on this forum.

Looking at where the industry at large is at is not germane to the conversation at hand, nor does it support your position or anyone else's on this thread. We're not talking Winnebegos here on the Airstream forum. It makes zero difference to me if Winnebegos, etc are make like junk or not, as it does not assist the conversation as to a well built or poorly built Airstream.

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Hopefully things at Jackson Center are going to get better. Perhaps with a new plant, they will also bring in some new production procedures that will start to mirror what the automotive industry has done with continuous improvement, TPS, six sigma, and so on.

Regarding the plywood floors, it’s long been a contentious issue with the classic travel trailer. The plywood floors tend to last about a decade or so before they start to become soft, or moldy, or rot away, depending on the climate they’re in, the owner, and other factors.

We really should, however, give Thor and airstream credit for finally doing some thing that promises to take care of this Achilles’ heel once and for all. The one piece composite floor is perhaps the biggest and most significant improvement in airstream trailers in many decades. Yes, it took them forever to make this improvement, but it nevertheless has come to pass, and we should all be grateful and thankful that the company is doing something positive in this regard.

I fully agree with skyguyscott. My only add would be they do a better job caulking as not everything else in these trailers is composite. And yes, there is a customer/maintenance component to maintain said caulking as the unit ages, which the onus is on the owner, not the factory.

[BayouBiker]

panameriacn, I've read your posts, and I understand your personal perspective based on your observations. I don't doubt them in the slightest. My comments though are not based on my personal experience. They are supported by real and valid data. I have provided the source several times. There are customer survey providers with active websites who charge about $100 for customer satisfaction and quality/warranty experience. I bought one report four years ago. I have suggested those who wish to verify my comments and see for themselves some quantitative data can also purchase the results. If you were to purchase the reports, you too would have objective data.

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by Tim A.

I think it is very probable that the delay was not necessarily due to Airstream. Obtaining a material with the structural strength of wood, not significantly heavier, and capable of securely accepting screws might not have been easy. It is worth noting that the material they are using has only recently become available.

Tim

They could have used treated wood , many years ago.
I can give you a example from a 1965 All wood 28 Foot Trojan Cabin Cruiser I had for years.It had Twin 327 Inboard V8s that the solid marine wood hull had no problem supporting, rot free, for many years.It was not a planked hull below the waterline, and the wood was exposed to / under some fresh water 7-8 months a year, at dock,year in and year out.It never rotted.
28 feet, btw, is about the largest shell size of the big Airstream Landyachts.
Airstream just didn't care that it's untreated wood floors were+ are famous for rotting/ failing.
Facts can be inconvenient things, when they don't fit the narrative.Finally, in 2020, they use a non rotting floor? Wow! Another example of Airstreams high tech engineering department hard at work, on the most expensive travel trailers made..
It is what it is....

[gln826]

This thread has seemingly jumped the shark at this point. The best evidence that some large number of owners are quite happy enough with their AS is that AS remains in business after 60 plus years. You can debate thousands, tens of thousands, two, whatever. If you are born naturally pessimistic, antagonistic, miserable or doubtful, there is likely no product on the planet that satisfies you. If you approach life reasonably, with the understanding that your iPhone, Mercedes, Levis, Orvis, Dyson or Airstream product has the potential to need repairs, then you accept that possibility that it will create downtime, inconvenience or frustration. But the vast majority of the customers of those and many other company's are satisfied, happy, content, etc. For the others, fear not. Life is short, the misery will be over soon. Geez.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

panameriacn, I've read your posts, and I understand your personal perspective based on your observations. I don't doubt them in the slightest. My comments though are not based on my personal experience. They are supported by real and valid data. I have provided the source several times. There are customer survey providers with active websites who charge about $100 for customer satisfaction and quality/warranty experience. I bought one report four years ago. I have suggested those who wish to verify my comments and see for themselves some quantitative data can also purchase the results. If you were to purchase the reports, you too would have objective data.

I'm not discounting spending the $100 to get some better data, and I'm not suggesting you didn't get the info. But what is here on the forum is good data to start with. It should not be discounted out of hand or diminished...nor should the folks that have had a good, problem or nearly problem free exp. be diminished here either... Plus there is the BBB:

https://www.bbb.org/us/oh/jackson-ce...-0322-25000301

If after that one really wants to spend the $100 to get a more clear picture, that's great. For free though we have pictures here of the actual problems and we have similar pics and comments on the good stuff too.

How folks get to the point of going into it with their eyes open is up to them. If $100 report does it for them, great, if this and the BBB can do it, so much the better and put that $100 toward fuel for your trip.

[TKCamper]

Originally Posted by gln826

This thread has seemingly jumped the shark at this point. The best evidence that some large number of owners are quite happy enough with their AS is that AS remains in business after 60 plus years. You can debate thousands, tens of thousands, two, whatever. If you are born naturally pessimistic, antagonistic, miserable or doubtful, there is likely no product on the planet that satisfies you. If you approach life reasonably, with the understanding that your iPhone, Mercedes, Levis, Orvis, Dyson or Airstream product has the potential to need repairs, then you accept that possibility that it will create downtime, inconvenience or frustration. But the vast majority of the customers of those and many other company's are satisfied, happy, content, etc. For the others, fear not. Life is short, the misery will be over soon. Geez.

Well stated!!!