Will two of us be happy with the 16'?

[hovr]

Hi all,
I thought we were settled with the 19CB Caravel purchase but we are having second thought and started to consider the 16' Caravel.

I have spent hours and hours reading previous posts on this subject but still have questions - we have ZERO RV experience and the COVID19 thing have made experiencing it in person more difficult.

I will start with my questions first, and some background about us after that.

- I know the grey/black combo tank is smaller, but since I have zero RV experience, I don't know what that translates to, does that mean I have to find a full hookup everyday? What about the fresh water tank and battery limitations? How many days can we boondock and enjoy it if we watch our water usage carefully and with a generator?

- How important is the rear panoramic window? Does it give a better view often enough to become a factor in this consideration?

- Obviously the lighter, shorter trailer is easier to tow, beside that, would it give us access to more campsites/RV parks that a 19' or longer AS does not have access to?

- Does it provide enough storage for RV essentials tools? I have watched a few youtube videos and seems like there are quite a few things, like leveling boards, multiple hoses, surge protectors, extension cords, chocks, 30/50amp adapters, etc, that are fairly big and might not fit in the interior drawers of the 16'. Of course we could put some of these in our mid- size SUV, but with an inverter generator in the truck, there might not be much space left and we'd also keep the car interior as clean as possible.

Some background about ourselves.

We (2 of us) live in Seattle and plan to use it for

1. 2-3 days weekend trips from late spring to early fall when weather is reasonable in PNW.

2. One or two 1-2-week trips per year national parks close to the west coast
- Yellow Stone, Tetons, Glacier, Banff, Yosemite, etc, a couple of night stay in hotel is ok) - This is important to us, it's something we want to enjoy in the AS, not just getting by and hating it.

3. Cross country trip (maybe once, ok to stay in hotel in between).

There are a few reasons we are having 2nd thoughts on a 19' or bigger AS.

- Towing vehicle. I just learnt that although our SUV (2014 ML350) has 7200LB towing capacity, the max tongue weight is only 575LB, which is barely above the 19/20' AS' tongue weight (565LB). and the factory install hitch has max rise/drop of 2 inch, the optimal rise is 3.5-4 inch, based on 15.5" hitch receiver top of my car and AS's 19" by spec. the 16' AS would give us comfortable margin.

- The panoramic window of 16' Caravel. It makes the small space in an RV feels airy. Also I just found out in many RV parks, the best view is on the back of the parking space, and there is no way you can park with the trailer's front into the back of the space, so most likely the front panoramic window would face another RV or road.


Thank you!

[BayouBiker]

hovr, all of these decisions can get overwhelming but since you have no experience you almost certainly should default to larger. Going small can be the right choice but it needs to be done with a specific purpose in mind. The extra room is a huge plus the larger tanks are a must from what you describe. It is very hard to cut back grey water use to prevent it from filling the tanks even if like us you have two and dump much of it into the toilet. You will be amazed by the measures you devise to avoid opening the galley faucet.

Panoramic windows are nice but getting out a lawn chair is even better. We hardly open the drapes they keep the trailer warmer or cooler depending.

Your vehicle is quite capable, you just need a quality hitch. Also, you are still confused about ball height. The ball sits 3 1/2 inches higher than the hitch height on a zero drop shank so you need less than 1 inch rise. The 16' will require an inch drop I think. Ditch the factory hitch, it looks pretty but it is a dud.

I really liked your initial plan to try to rent a trailer so you can see how small even a 19' is.

[uraljohn]

The 19 will have bigger Fresh, grey and black tanks. You will appreciate bigger tanks. Panoramic window is nice to have front or back. Some folks love view out the back, some out the front. Personal preference. The shorter the trailer the more difficult it is to back up. A 16 will jack knife in a heartbeat in reverse.
No matter what trailer you purchase your going to need all the same extras. Extra storage space is always welcome.

In regards to your tow vehicle capabilities, make a call to Andy Thompson at CanAm Airstream in Ontario, Canada. He will tell you if your ML350 can tow a 19 and what mods you need to make to it that will enable that to happen. I am not a fan of Andy but there are a whole bunch of folks that swear by his knowledge and expertise on towing. Worth a phone call.

Last thought. Go to a dealer that has the models you are interested in and spend hours in each one. Yes, I said hours. Get a feel how it will work for you. Take your time. It's a big purchase. A 16 is pretty darn small. Imagine being inside all day on a rainy day. If you go that route and you want to upgrade after a year or so it will cost you $$$. The sickness is called "2 footitis". We started with a 23 and moved up to a 25 after 2 years. We were lucky as we sold our 23 for just $3k less than purchase. Your result may not be the same. Do your homework.

[ROBERT CROSS]

The most common reason to trade in your Airstream...it's too Wally small

Good Luck👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[PB_NB]

We started our RV adventures with a Camplite 13' QBB (Queen Bed). Then we got really excited about the idea of the 16' Bambi and went to look at one. It turns out that our 13' Camplite was the same length as the 16' Bambi. Airstream includes the hitch in the size.

The front eating area is nice in the 16'. Coming from a queen bed in our other little trailer, we found the 48" wide bed and walls a bit tight.

Having looked at a few FC's and Caravel's as well, in the 20 foot range, we were having a challenge finding a layout that seemed functional for us.

Then we arrived at the Sport 22'. The layout made sense for us because the sleeping area is at the front so limited viewing when parked at a campsite but that is okay because it is dark when we are there sleeping. The little dining area is on the side that typically looks at the campsite with some view potential. The bathroom is at the other end of the trailer so it feels separate from the rest of the trailer. We also found the best views from the bathroom window on our last trip. One upgrade that I am thinking about is adding a bit of support to the bed frame to move up to a queen sized bed. We have the room in the Sport to do that with relative ease.

I don't expect our choice to be yours but that's what we did when we worked out the layout that we liked.

If you have a chance to rent at least one, you will be able to map out what is important to you for layout, features and space.

We also enjoy camping in the PNW with some of our favourite spots being Fort Casey and Douglas Fir Campgrounds. Hope to see you around one of these days or years!

[waninae39]

we are two. we have a 22Fb sport
anything smaller would be too small for us

if we get a replacement, the 23 FC looks best. its just 1' longer and a bit wider , but has a better bed arrangement
we dont need a couch et.al

[Camano20]

For what it is worth the wife and I love our 20. Hope to see y0u down the road. Fort Casey is one of our favorites also

Best of luck with your search

[SnooMc]

Go bigger. Our friends made this same decision and the only regret they have with the larger one is that the view is often out the back. However, if you are not spending weeks on end in the trailer, and the weather is nice, you'll be outside anyway. And once it's dark, you can't really see out anyway.

[A W Warn]

My thoughts in blue print

Originally Posted by hovr

Hi all,
I thought we were settled with the 19CB Caravel purchase but we are having second thought and started to consider the 16' Caravel.

I have spent hours and hours reading previous posts on this subject but still have questions - we have ZERO RV experience and the COVID19 thing have made experiencing it in person more difficult.

I will start with my questions first, and some background about us after that.

- I know the grey/black combo tank is smaller, but since I have zero RV experience, I don't know what that translates to, does that mean I have to find a full hookup everyday? What about the fresh water tank and battery limitations? How many days can we boondock and enjoy it if we watch our water usage carefully and with a generator?
What this means is that the tank will need to be emptied more often. Being conservative, we use about 10 gallons per day per person. Do the math.
With a generator the only time limit of battery/generator is set by how much fuel you have. If you plan to run the air conditioner 2000 watt generator will require modification of the ac unit and limiting usage of other items. A 3500 watt generator is needed to use the ac and any other appliance at the same time. Maybe consider some type of solar battery charging to limit generator use when air conditioning is not needed.

- How important is the rear panoramic window? Does it give a better view often enough to become a factor in this consideration? We don't have pano windows on our 25. I don't miss them at all. We are not inside during the day, unless weather is bad. If you set inside and look out the windows, then the pano windows are great.

- Obviously the lighter, shorter trailer is easier to tow, beside that, would it give us access to more campsites/RV parks that a 19' or longer AS does not have access to? Not always true. My 34' tows smoother than my 25'. The issue is the tow vehicle is loaded heavier with the larger trailer.

- Does it provide enough storage for RV essentials tools? I have watched a few youtube videos and seems like there are quite a few things, like leveling boards, multiple hoses, surge protectors, extension cords, chocks, 30/50amp adapters, etc, that are fairly big and might not fit in the interior drawers of the 16'. Of course we could put some of these in our mid- size SUV, but with an inverter generator in the truck, there might not be much space left and we'd also keep the car interior as clean as possible. There's never enough storage, regardless of trailer size. While towing we store some things inside the trailer in storage bins, using this to adjust balance of the trailer. When we arrive we either move it outsid or into the tow vehicle. We even put our 2000 watt generator inside an Action Packer box so it can go inside the trailer if needed. We also have a 3500 watt for summer camping.

Some background about ourselves.

We (2 of us) live in Seattle and plan to use it for

1. 2-3 days weekend trips from late spring to early fall when weather is reasonable in PNW.

2. One or two 1-2-week trips per year national parks close to the west coast
- Yellow Stone, Tetons, Glacier, Banff, Yosemite, etc, a couple of night stay in hotel is ok) - This is important to us, it's something we want to enjoy in the AS, not just getting by and hating it.

3. Cross country trip (maybe once, ok to stay in hotel in between).

There are a few reasons we are having 2nd thoughts on a 19' or bigger AS.

- Towing vehicle. I just learnt that although our SUV (2014 ML350) has 7200LB towing capacity, the max tongue weight is only 575LB, which is barely above the 19/20' AS' tongue weight (565LB). and the factory install hitch has max rise/drop of 2 inch, the optimal rise is 3.5-4 inch, based on 15.5" hitch receiver top of my car and AS's 19" by spec. the 16' AS would give us comfortable margin. Tow vehicle size is a limiting factor. We moved from a 30 to a 25 because we thought smaller would be easier. It is in some ways. But limited space became an issue as we spent more time, so we got the 34'. We tow it less, because it is better suited to staying in one place longer. There is no "correct" size! IMO, the answer is to just chose the one that suits your needs, then make the best of it till the next one :-) I've had six Airstream trailers in the last 30 years, and 8 tow vehicles.

- The panoramic window of 16' Caravel. It makes the small space in an RV feels airy. Also I just found out in many RV parks, the best view is on the back of the parking space, and there is no way you can park with the trailer's front into the back of the space, so most likely the front panoramic window would face another RV or road.


Thank you!

[PKI]

It depends on you. I would not get anything smaller than a FC23FB. The queen is nice, the bigger bath is nice, the double sink is nice and having two hanging closets is just perfect. The 22 works very similar if you are OK with a single axle. Before I would buy a 19, I'd move to the 20 or 22 depending on how I wanted to use the rig. I would only buy a 16 if there was some real constraint on living with a bigger coach like limited storage space on your lot. A wet bath is just not a good idea, unless you have no other viable choice.

There are work arounds to everything. But two-ft-itis is a vicious virus. Pat

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by uraljohn

. . .
. . . Go to a dealer that has the models you are interested in and spend hours in each one. Yes, I said hours. Get a feel how it will work for you. Take your time.
. . .
Do your homework.

Bingo!

Until you can invest the time and energy to do this vital "homework" research, all the words and concepts in your head . . . . . are just that.

And only that IMO.

Spending hours inside the various models will create fertile ground . . . for that flash of brilliance . . . during which you will know that "this is the one!"

Happy trails,

Peter

PS -- You have a major AS dealer near you. Call for an appointment . . . . just do it!

. . . . . .

[Adventure.AS]

[QUOTE=hovr;2362702]
<snip>...
- I know the grey/black combo tank is smaller, but since I have zero RV experience, I don't know what that translates to, does that mean I have to find a full hookup everyday? What about the fresh water tank and battery limitations? How many days can we boondock and enjoy it if we watch our water usage carefully and with a generator?

The bigger limiting factor is the waste holding tank. You can always bring extra water containers, but it would be more difficult to control your waste production. If the park you are going to has facilities it may be wise to use them as much as possible.

<snip>...

There are a few reasons we are having 2nd thoughts on a 19' or bigger AS.

- Towing vehicle. I just learnt that although our SUV (2014 ML350) has 7200LB towing capacity, the max tongue weight is only 575LB, which is barely above the 19/20' AS' tongue weight (565LB). and the factory install hitch has max rise/drop of 2 inch, the optimal rise is 3.5-4 inch, based on 15.5" hitch receiver top of my car and AS's 19" by spec. the 16' AS would give us comfortable margin.

Check with Can-Am RV in London ON, Canada. They will be able to give you information on if it is possible to strengthen your receiver so that the tongue weight can be managed. We started with a 22', single axle trailer and found that our 25' tandem axle trailer actually tows and rides better, even though it weighs more.

- The panoramic window of 16' Caravel. It makes the small space in an RV feels airy. Also I just found out in many RV parks, the best view is on the back of the parking space, and there is no way you can park with the trailer's front into the back of the space, so most likely the front panoramic window would face another RV or road.

IMHO the 'best view to the rear' is a bit of a myth. Most of the time (inclement weather excluded), the best view is outside enjoying the 360 ° view. I wouldn't base my buying decision on hoping to get great views from inside the trailer. However, we do enjoy our rear bedroom panorama window when relaxing with our morning coffee in bed./QUOTE]

[Hans627]

You are getting some excellent advice. I cannot add much to the discussion except to say there is a tendency to think a small unit is better (for many of the reasons you've mentioned) only to discover that you will find more ENJOYMENT in a larger unit.

So many AS'ers have started small only to gradually acquire a bigger unit. The "2 footitis" mentioned by Ultrajohn is real, and expensive. And there is a reason it exists.

And as also suggested, spend hours in the unit you are considering. In your imagination go thru your daily activities, showering, dressing, cooking, cleaning, etc.

Wishing you the best in your search! And please let us know what you ultimately decide upon.

[AKmtnpilot]

Way, way too small. Buy your last best RV the first time. It's amazing how much money you spend over the years for "another couple of feet" or "just a little bigger".

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by PKI

It depends on you. I would not get anything smaller than a FC23FB. The queen is nice, the bigger bath is nice, the double sink is nice and having two hanging closets is just perfect. The 22 works very similar if you are OK with a single axle. Before I would buy a 19, I'd move to the 20 or 22 depending on how I wanted to use the rig. I would only buy a 16 if there was some real constraint on living with a bigger coach like limited storage space on your lot. A wet bath is just not a good idea, unless you have no other viable choice.

There are work arounds to everything. But two-ft-itis is a vicious virus. Pat

Some excellent advice here. Some of this does depend on how often you want to buy a new trailer. Until you get above 20’ upgrading will always be on your mind.

[LuvMyShorty]

Check out the Caravel 20FB. We use our Flying Cloud 20FB the same way you do -- just two of us. IMHO it is the most overlooked AS in the single axle class. Easy to tow and maneuver. It has the "chef's kitchen" (i.e., extra counter space), plenty of storage area, and the front bed compartment with panoramic windows is a dream. It's 20'10"-- not sure why it isn't called the Caravel 21FB!

As others will has recommended, get into as many as you can before you make a decision. Good luck and happy trails!

[drbrick]

I can only speak to travelling and camping in a 16 ft trailer. As a couple we owned and travelled and camped in a 16ft T@B for several year. Our average trip/camping was 7-14 day. Note! we are both about 150lb/5'8" people and did most of our cooking outside. We love our T@B and the move to the Airstream was just the fulfillment of the dream.

Also, we have found that a trailer 25ft or less can pretty much go anywhere ... it starts to get a bet more challanging over 25 feet (IMHO)

[Ken G]

We tow a 23FB with a Jeep Grand Cherokee using Blue Ox weight distributing hitch. The Jeep has a tow rating of 7200 lbs. and 500 lb. tongue weight while the blue ox raises this to 600 lbs. This setup works very well. It appears to me that the ML to towing specs are quite similar to my Jeep. Also while the 23FB is a larger trailer the dual axles carry more weight so tongue weight is comparable to a smaller single axle. I suggest you get the larger trailer, use a quality WD hitch and drive at reasonable speeds.

[Rgentum]

Prediction: No matter what you get now, if you use it at all, then within two years you'll be shopping for a 23, 25 or 27 --- so it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference what you get now. By then, you'll likely either get tired of RVing and sell what you have or trade up to something that works better for you. You could hedge your investment a little by buying a few-years-old Airstream, on the notion that in a year or two, when you want to sell it or trade it in, you won't lose that much in depreciation.

With your being in Kirkland, I would urge you to spend the better part of a day at Airstream NW, in Covington, just sitting in one Airstream after another, each for longer than 5-10 minutes, attempting to get a feel for what it might be like to spend a long weekend in it during a typical PNW rain & cold. At least for my sweetie and me, 16-20 feet would get claustrophobic real quick.

I might add that when my sweetie got excited about RVing and we went to the Seattle RV show, she fell in love with the 16 ft Bambi. So we spent a morning at AS NW, going from one AS to another. After around 5 minutes in a Bambi, she began getting claustrophobic, so we began the "what's a little larger?" progression --- and when she got into a 27 with access to its queen bed on three sides, her response was "This is it!" We put 35K miles on it in its first two summers, and it has worked quite well for us, with no ambitions of "trading up."

Lastly, I would encourage you to obtain the AS that works best for you as a trailer and then think about a proper tow vehicle to tow it rather than vice versa.

My best to you whatever you decide.

[Shiny16]

I love the 16 layout so much better then the 19. The 19 in my opinion doesn’t really offer much more usable space other then the bathroom area. A separate shower might be nice but we honestly don’t have any issue with the wet bath. The bathroom always stays nice and clean.
If the size of the tanks are an issue then I don’t think the 19 would solve the problem. For me to to make getting anything bigger worth it I would go up to a 25. Of course that comes with its own compromises in terms of storage tow vehicles ect.

I am self quarantined now in my 16. I’m watching a movie on the bed and looking out of the panoramic window. I don’t think I would be as comfortable in the 19 but I would have a separate shower.