Why does routing prefer Kansas?

[cojer]

Originally Posted by Gringo

Banditos? In a previous life I used to ride my murdersickle with some scooter enthusiasts called the Banditos....

now THIS i find extremely interesting! how does one go from riding with that bunch, to cussing mapquest and dragging a toaster around the country!?! that really seems like some big worlds apart amigo

[cojer]

and i have no idea how i drew a line through that quote...stupid computer!

[slowmover]

Most map services appear to default to Interstate. Good, as it keeps the dummies on the safest roads. Since the dummies don't buy a quality paper road atlas (Rand-McNally Motor Carriers Road Atlas), they can't check their routing via several different maps given, and just applying a straight edge to the points in question to see what roads are available.

287 from D/FW to Denver via IH-25 at Raton, NM is the route everyone has used since the Interstate opened in the mid-1960's. I prefer 287-N to pickup IH-70 east of Denver for some trips.

There are other non-Interstate routes available, and the advantage of knowing what roads are designed for trucks are the routes with: best signage, heavy-duty wide shoulders, better traffic control devices, etc.

Other days one may wish to avoid commercial traffic, and this atlas is equally handy.

The Interstate-only route through Kansas to Denver from D/FW is not much longer, and just about as fast. But not nearly so pretty.

About all a GPS unit is good for -- once planning has been done on paper -- is to alert one to turns/exits and a rough estimation of time (given that one can duplicate on it that paper routing plan). I like using them in business, but the shortcomings are large.

.

[SteSpot]

We have found our Garmin (New one in March of this year) to be wrong many times.....frequently it does not know where the campgrounds we are located.....in Ogden, Utah it took us on the other side of the freeway down a dead end. When we mention to the campground clerks, they usually respond that they know that Garmin is incorrect but apparently they have not bothered to try to correct it.....

I use a map along with the Garmin always.......we programmed in for an AT&T store and it took us into a residential neighborhood to a cul de sac...go figure......

About the non interstate roads...we have found that they are a great alternative to the rough semi truck populated interstates....so far Indiana has had the roughest roads.....we loved Highway 50 from Pueblo to Dodge City, Kansas...also Highway 20 in upper Ohio instead of the tollway...but sometimes we just have to take the interstates....no good alternatives. Seems like all the roads in the US are being rebuilt...road construction everywhere.....we certainly have a huge beautiful country......love seeing it with our SteSpot. paula

[Gringo]

The GPS is a great tool in the hands of someone who knows what they are and what they do. I do. I was working with the folks who developed the differential method of getting around the P code way back when. The underwater tracking and navigation system I was responsible for absolutely had to work with surface navigation systems. It's important to go blow the right things up underwater. It's also important to be able to get back to things lost underwater with a minimum amount of fuss and without a lot of wasted effort. and things like that.

I've had to work with just about everything since Loran.
I like paper charts, myself. But I really appreciate the GPS telling me I have a turn coming up and I don't have to have a book open on the steering wheel in front of me.

This one also came with automatic updates for life. Books don't do that. Books lag behind current construction by years. It's all got to wait until the next printing.

It also monitors radio and gives me traffic alerts if there is a tie up.
Books don't do that either.

I agree with using the tools together.

But the initial question here was not about GPS, remember. It was why Good Sam wants me to go through Kansas. Nothing to do with a navigation system.

[Gene]

I guess a lot of people have trouble reading maps or don't have a good sense of direction. My mother loved geography and I learned a lot from her. My father could get lost in our neighborhood. When we took road trips, pretty soon I was planning the trips and my mother and I had to be alert because my father tried to make a wrong turn several times a day.

So, I am very comfortable with maps and books. I have been training my wife to read maps for 25 years and she has gotten a lot better, but she didn't learn it as a kid.

But lots of people need something that will tell them, step by step, how to go somewhere. Thus, the GPS things. The companies that make these things are competing for low prices and reasonable good performance, so more elaborate units and up to date info costs a lot more, so many end up with moderately useful units. And there is clearly a judgment that most people want to stay on interstates, so they are programmed that way. People are so used to expressways, they don't want to drive on two laners—they never learned how to pass slow vehicles either.

I prefer maps—I can see where everything is and look for interesting routes, fast routes, slow routes, get ideas for side trips. I think the GPS things promote a narrow view of the world and discourage knowledge of geography. Maps are portable and come into the trailer to plan ahead. GPS stays in a truck. Maps are cheap and a basic AAA memberships gets you all the maps you want, Campground and Tour Books, but for towing, they are not so good with all their limits. I can plan for days ahead in the trailer with those books, maps, Woodalls, and when we have wifi, use RV Park Reviews and find where stores are, then print from the laptop that info. I see no need for a GPS unit, although you don't have to learn how to fold them.

But, Gringo, Good Sam wants you to go through Kansas because it is not very smart and makes judgments based on assumptions of what the average driver wants. No one would accuse you of being average. Among other things, you can read a map. Many people cannot and that says something about the quality of geography education.

Get out the western US map, draw a line from Dallas to Ratón, NM, and that's the way to go—we've done it lots of times. Or you can go north through the Okla. panhandle to Lamar and then take US 50 west to Pueblo and I-25 north, or keep going north to I-70. A map will tell you the way and the exact route numbers. But that's what you did.

Gene

[slowmover]

Even the old MOBIL TripTik custom-printed booklet was more useful in determining alternate routing (if we're going to speak of map service suggestions).

Where dashboard GPS units ought to shine is in displaying altitude changes, political domains, etc. Not just turns or exits or ETA.

[SteSpot]

I couldn't agree with you more, Gene. I am lost without a map.....it tells me so much more than a GPS......it shows what is around you......and can tell you if Garmin is being lame......

Garmin can be helpful in finding the nearest Costco or Trader Joes if we are lucky enough to have one nearby....it can also be helpful in telling you in which lane to be in for the next turn.....it is a tool not the be all end all device.....paula

[SteSpot]

One other comment about routing.....I went on AAA, Good Sam to get the best route between Missoula, Montana and Baker City, OR......they routed us west on I 90 and south on 395 I think.

I went on line and asked airforum folks about what looked like a more scenic route--12 west to Lewiston, WA 129 to OR 3 to Joseph then NF 39 to the road that goes into Baker......I was worried about the road but we did it and, boy, am I glad.....it was on the Lewis and Clark trail by the Lochsa River....through the Bitterroot Mountains..up and down Rattlesnake grade....one of the most memorable beautiful drives on our trip.....

Now, I am wondering what other beautiful sights we have missed when we do travel on the Interstates?????? paula

PS: US 50 from Pueblo to Dodge City then south on something like 283 or 4 to OK City was another nice drive.....nobody on the road but us.....

[Gringo]

Originally Posted by cojer

now THIS i find extremely interesting! how does one go from riding with that bunch, to cussing mapquest and dragging a toaster around the country!?! that really seems like some big worlds apart amigo

Ah. you know the lads I am referring to. I was never a club member. But a good friend in High School dropped out and 'went bad', and we remained friends for a while after that. Then I guess I just made different decisions.

[DaveFL]

My TomTom couldn't get me home when I did a simple navigate to home, locked up trying to find route, when I checked menu for preferences I had selected no unpaved roads, we were in a CG and it couldn't find its way out. Maybe gps mapping is starting to use phone signal availability and shopping, making scenic routes impossible. Towing toad makes fast u turns impossible so it would be nice to have a gps mapping program with towing as a built in function.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SteSpot

Garmin can be helpful in finding the nearest Costco or Trader Joes if we are lucky enough to have one nearby....it can also be helpful in telling you in which lane to be in for the next turn.....it is a tool not the be all end all device.....paula

Before we leave, I check where the Trader Joe's are and print the locations. TJs are often located in small shopping malls and sometimes have very difficult parking, so we will call them and ask. You can find anything with a lap top and print the maps in the trailer—if you have a printer in it.

City maps are available from AAA and can tell you where the exit lanes are—especially those pesky left exits. Sometimes you need a magnifying glass to read them. AAA has a lot of city maps and ones for parts of states (there are many for parts of Cal., for ex.) or destination areas. They may not be on display and I just ask at the counter for every possible one.

Maps of national parks can be requested from the NPS and sometimes they will send them to you for free, or you can print them from the internet. Public campgrounds have maps on their websites; you may have to go through the reservation function to find them.

Other than AAA, there are many other maps available for a price. A really good bookstore will have a lot of them, but for places far away, you may have to order them. Outdoor stores also have maps of areas where people recreate. There are atlases of specific states (besides Rand McNally) that have more detail than you can believe. DeLorme atlases are like that. And you can get CD's with every topo in a specific state. Those aren't cheap though.

And you can buy books that tell you where all the things are that you may want to see in a state, province or a region. Frommers does a pretty good job, but there are plenty of others. When we go to an area to explore, it is worth buying some of those books—they may cost $20 each, but look at how much you are spending to get there and then it is a good investment on seeing what you want to see.

Gene

[ROBERT CROSS]

NSEW

anything else is a waste of time.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

NSEW

What about up and down? If you're in Kansas, you can go down the rabbit hole, when you get to Colorado, you go up.

Gene

[Gringo]

But...but....but....WHY does Good Sam want me to drive through Kansas? That route isn't getting a lot of support here from other RVers. Isn't Good Sam by, and for, RVers?

The more westward route seems to be a lot more popular, in addition to being shorter, and faster. We think we'll take that route, despite the admitted regret at having to give up the anticipation of the day when I could declare that we were not in Kansas, anymore, etc.

[Gene]

Good Sam is not a Forum member and he will never reply why he wants you to go through Kansas. Because he is "good", he must know something and maybe you can make a deal—I won't take I-70, but I'll take US 50 through southern Kansas. But we know compromise is a dirty word now and maybe Sam and Gringo will never get along.

Gene

[Gringo]

yes, I think you are right about Sam. Well, we do know he's Good to Kansas, when he can be. As for why...well that question about a man traveling down roads has been asked many a time before. And now, just like then, the answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.
The answer's still blowing in the wind.

You reckon he found out that my full name is Crazy Gringo?

[missysanford]

Have you driven around and past New Mexico? In regards to Santa Fe the satirist Will Rogers: "whoever designed this town did so while riding on a jackass, backwards, and drunk. Then the pass at Wolf Creek? Well it is the best place to ski if you don't like crowds. Anyway you go is better than Kansas--just kidding Kansans!

[Gringo]

I got a confession to make. I have been terrified of Kansas since I was about six years old and saw that movie with the witch and all those flying monkeys there. I have since come to accept that there are witches in life and they have to be dealt with. I've even fought some to a draw. But thinking about flying monkeys (or clowns) still gives me the heebie jeebies.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Gringo

...............................................

We bought a Garmin Nuvi 1450 a couple trips to the US ago. We love that thing.

I also have the 1450. It does some pretty screwy things when you get off the beaten path.

Recently in rural Iowa. I programmed the 1450, but used Google Navigation on my Android smart phone for the actual navigation.
Google kicked the Garmin's butt. A couple of times Garmin wanted me to take off out of the way on gravel roads and on one occasion in Monticello, IA the garmin wanted me to wander through the back streets, rather that stay on the main highway as common sense showed to be the way to go.

From then on, if I think the Garmin is DUI again, I always check google Nav. It's only big downside is it can not calculate a route if you don't have a good data connection.

Ken


Why is this post lined through?
Did Garmin USA sabotage it?