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12-27-2021, 02:52 PM
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#21
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1 Rivet Member 
2017 25' International
Laguna Beach
, California
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
I walked away from a trailer I had driven 800 miles to see. I also lost a couple of hundred dollars. It was a lesson learned. The good news is that I found a great trailer later...
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Ha! The irony was that I drove from Laguna Beach to Kansas City MO to look at a Silver Stream Duke opened by a former Air Traffic controller lady. It looked a bit nicer than in the photos but had soft spot floor issues, If I had known this Onyx had a multiple holes in the bottom big enough for ferret entry and one big enough for my leg to go through I would have never bothered making the 2 day drive. Total waste of my time, and to make it worse I had to drive back for a walk through, so they wasted my time twice.
And in an electric car the last drive to the airstream dealer Dec 23rd was a long drive from work at 5pm arriving at the dealer at 3:30 am. A few hours of sleep for the morning walkthrough, and $135 in hotel charges. Normally the 6 hour gas car drive drive in an electric takes about 8-9 hours with charging meals etc but Christmas traffic made it even worse.
All could have been avoided if they had told me.
So @azflycaster, not only do I feel your pain, I know your pain. The idea of owning an airstream has started to not be fun, my spirit is just about killed .
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12-27-2021, 08:19 PM
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#22
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2 Rivet Member 
2014 28' Flying Cloud
Phoenix
, AZ
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 78
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Run away. We got our 28 foot Flying Cloud, 2014 model, for around $50,000 from a private seller. Has some issues but nothing like what you are describing.
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12-27-2021, 10:28 PM
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#23
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Living Riveted since 2013

2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Winter Garden
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,240
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This is not the Airstream you’re looking for.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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12-28-2021, 06:18 AM
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#24
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3 Rivet Member 
2016 22' Sport
2018 25' International
Chino Hills
, California
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 116
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Run Run Away
And don’t look back. Obviously they had to have seen this damage.
2014 international onyx one of my favorite floorplans and cabinetry of all the Airstreams. I’m sure you can find another Airstream. Can you see this floor plan on occasion. It is worth waiting for if it’s the one your heart is set on. We have an International serenity and we love it. Do you let all of the local Clubs know that you’re out looking for this model.
I would not deal with this dealership at all ever again. Traveling in an airstream is such a wonderful experience. A wonderful way to travel. It truly is your home away from home. Don’t settle for less. You are worth it.
Happy new year everyone . Safe travels. See you down the road neighbor..
Remember 90 year anniversary ”Wally. Keep your eyes on the stars and stars in your eyes.”Your adventure has just begun. It is worth looking further for your perfect Airstream..
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12-28-2021, 08:55 AM
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#25
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3 Rivet Member 
2021 27' International
Fredericksburg
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 239
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We purchased a brand new 2021 27FBT International with the dreaded front end frame separation. I didn't notice the creases until we had gone on our first camping trip. Looked back at some pictures we took at the dealer before we drove away on the purchase day and there the creases were. Obviously we didn't notice them and the dealer claimed they didn't notice them either. It's hard for me to believe a large AS dealer would not have seen them upon their inspection. I think they were aware of the creases but wanted our money and then would deal with it later.
My AS has been at the dealer for 4 months now for the repair. Finally picking it up next week. I have very little trust in dealerships.
Based on your (OP) original post, find another AS.
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12-28-2021, 07:37 PM
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#26
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3 Rivet Member 
1989 32' Excella
Sharon Springs
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 172
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It amazes me that you would even consider paying $87k for a 7 year old travel trailer. Maybe you need to get some experience with some other brand of travel trailer to see if the lifestyle works for you. I have owned many RVs and while my AS is my favorite, it has been no better/worse than other makes/models I have owned. Virtue signaling is an easy way to waste/lose a lot of money!! Good luck and safe travels...
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12-29-2021, 07:28 PM
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#27
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1 Rivet Member 
2017 25' International
Laguna Beach
, California
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 15
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I definitely was overpaying for it, and at first it appeared to be near perfect.
And I thought I was going with a very reputable dealer, they seem like very nice people. The salesman Jeff was extremely knowledgeable, and I’ve been selling Airstream’s for over 30 years, Steve in finance was also very nice and helpful, Faustino was good with the walk through.
Steve and Jeff were helpful enough that I felt in good hands . The GM is a bit more of a stern fellow, and looks like he has been around the block tons He was very patient with me in getting money together with a deposit .
I do find it completely impossible to believe that a unit could be taken in on trade and not have caught this on inspection . I just can’t imagine that they don’t inspect the underside and roof and interiors for any possible intrusions . I could see someone. Missing an inspection on the tons of Bambi’s traded in , or on say 25FBFC of which they get so many it could be confusing… but an Onyx ??? I’d think maybe even an employee might have wanted this if it was a good one .
So it kinda soooks me , because I can’t pin it on any person - but who ever does the inspection and then heads to the GM to come up with a trade in price …. I’d think someone in that chain would notice . I also would believe if you are one of the largest dealers , you would have a premed inspection checklist for say a very common unit like a 25FB .
I suppose in a very unlikely scenario , the unit was received with no damage , and detailed and then someone damaged it afterwards , but there are waterlines inside on the video where water or liquid dried leaving a ring from cleaning . Now I suppose it’s possible that it was the original owner who cleaned it prior to bringing it in - but still it was detailed for delivery .
I left completely confused . And I still
Like the people I dealt with I just think SOMEONE had to know .
If anyone knows who owned Onyx number 83 and has their contact info , I’d love to know the history of the coach and damage .
1. Was it traded in with damage that was deducted from the trade in value ?
2. What damage was it traded in with ?
3. How much was he given in trade?
I negotiated a couple grand off the price , but wasn’t aggressive about it because I knew the deal would take some time to put together the down payment .
If the dealer were to sell it for $65k as an apology and include a 1 year extended warranty. I’d likely buy it with dealer support . Do the Christian thing and give them a chance to redeem themselves in my eyes. What was truly disappointing was there was no price reduction offered immediately, or a follow up call. And because of that Inthibk they are just going to fix it , pretend it’s perfect again , and try to sell
It as if it were perfect to the next person . If they are really bad, they will take it off the market for a bit , still not repair it , and sell
It to the next person at a similar price .
If I were the dealer , and I truly missed that damage - I’d be so embarrassed and apologetic , I wouldn’t try to make anything on the sale (prove it by showing the trade in invoice) and would have dropped the price to have no profit on the sale at all , fixed it , added the price of Materials Only to the cost, eaten the labor cost and said “Merry Christmas I hope we regained your trust” .
I can’t believe you could be one of the largest or largest dealer in the country and not have had a deal gone this way in the thousands of trailers they have sold over decades . But this says to me , at no point was the consumers time and search compensated for a product with a problem … just let someone buy it at full
Price and hope he doesn’t realize .
It makes me feel naive for thinking there is a value in ourchasing a used unit from a dealer . Then again , I had bad purchase experiences from Viti Mercedes ( sold me a 1993 300E Mercedes with damage , Foreign Motors West in Natick Massachusetts sold
me a used 1994 E500 Mercedes with rear end damage one dark evening , and Tesla that forced delivery on a 2016 Model X that they had backed into a pole ( later replaced with a 2017 Model X that had hood damage- it’s just crazy.
Sometimes I think they are just a bunch of horse traders .
How hard is it to sell a decent product without damage ?
I worked at the largest Toyota dealership
In the world Boch Toyota and never delivered a messed up car We had to sell 540 cars a month just to keep the lights on. And I sold Acura’s - again no issue ever .
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12-29-2021, 08:49 PM
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#28
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2 Rivet Member 
1977 31' Sovereign
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Bartlett
, TN
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 53
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Very sorry you wasted time and money chasing your dream trailer. I have no doubt your gut told you what to do. You may have hoped you'd get some encouragement from this forum to overlook the warning signs. You are not going to get it. This dealer was trying to take advantage of a sellers market and fleece you. Shame on them. There are good dealers out there, and honest private sellers too. Unfortunately it's always buyer beware. It sounds like yo have good instincts. The things that caused concern should have caused concern.
Keep looking. Use this experience to your advantage. Go over your list of disappointments on this venture and prepare a list of questions for the next time. On the first call ask the questions and jot down each answer and record the date. Always call at least on additional time. More is better. Ask the same questions in a different order each time If subsequent calls produce conflicting answers, drop it and move on.
You WILL find your perfect trailer, and the experience with this dealer will make it even sweeter.
I've used this method for years when buying collector cars. It has worked well for me.
Good luck in your search.
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01-02-2022, 12:34 PM
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#29
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3 Rivet Member 
2023 Interstate 19
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 170
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You already have the best advice available. Continuing to rant here is only preaching to the choir. Unless you have the patience of Job or are a lawyer willing to fight for several years, put this behind you. I wish you the best
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01-02-2022, 01:16 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master 
1976 25' Tradewind
.
, Maine to Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 622
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Lesson Learned
Bought the first Airstream I looked at, $4,000.
Paid too much for it. Soft floors, lots of hidden problems.
20 some years later, still have it, kids can get rid of it when I die, still love it.
__________________
"Talk is cheap, Airstreams are expensive," Wally Byam.
25' Tradewind
'18 Promaster 1500 High Roof
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01-02-2022, 01:37 PM
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#31
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1 Rivet Member 
Currently Looking...
Redlands
, California
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 14
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Your dream trailer is in the future.
After a tour in 2014 of the Airstream factory I wanted one. I couldn't afford a new one and this started a quest that went on for over 3 years. I saw and made offers on several and even paid an RV Inspector to look at one advertised in Georgia. (I live in SoCal.) I found several too good to be true scams and had my heart set on one located a few blocks away from my home that had been parked and unused for years. I pestered that couple for years. (Wife wanted to sell but husband overruled.) I ran across another brand that was having a rally in Ohio when I toured AS Factory. As time went on and I researched more and was disappointed a few more times. I changed my goal and decided I'd settle on either an Airstream or an Avion. In 2017 I ran across a Craigslist ad for a trailer in Las Vegas that had posted less than an hour before I spotted it. After speaking with the retired Air Force Vet, owner we set on a price. I drove to Vegas and picked up my dream trailer. I knew in advance (because the prior owner was forthright) I'd need to make repairs. I have been full timing since I took my dream trailer to the Florida Keys in 2018. You can't appreciate knowing all the repairs were done correctly, like you can if you did them yourself. I travel with confidence knowing I did my due diligence, was focused, patient and in the end after so many disappointments found my dream-come-true trailer. Sometimes the quest makes the result even more appreciated. Safe travels and see y'all on the road. (I'll be towing The-Silver-Pull-It.)
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01-02-2022, 03:04 PM
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#32
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4 Rivet Member 
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Hillbilly Hollywood (Nashville)
, Tennessee
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 379
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IF you are going to shop long distance for any trailer HIRE A PROFESSIONAL INSPECTOR to look at your potential purchase prior to any purchase decision especially if you don't know that Hell you are looking at. $200-$400 paid to a professional inspector for a detailed report with detailed pictures is the best money you will spend. This is far cheaper than U making an inspection trip and a Hell of a lot better than relying on the salespersons BS who is wanting to SELL YOU a trailer!
Budget $1000 for travel/inspections for every $10,000 you are willing to spend on a trailer. Go look at EVERYTHING that turns up locally whether you are interested to buy or not. You will learn more and more at every trailer you look at. Consider looking at local trailers for sale your EDUCATION in trailer buying 101. All this local looking will help you make better decisions when trying to buy a trailer long distance. You will be handsomely rewarded by doing this as you will find to the 1 poor SOB that needs to sell their trailer NOW! You will more than make up for any travel or inspection services money you SPENT! DON'T LOOK LONG DISTANCE to purchase a trailer if you are not willing to put in the WORK and SPEND the money needed to make proper and informed purchase decision!
The EXCUSE FOR MOST FOLKS trying to buy a trailer long distance is that they are UNABLE to travel for whatever BS reason they make up in their mind versus the TRUTH which is they are "Plane" (Pun Intended) UNWILLING to travel.
Pretty amazing to think so many people will spend the kind of money needed to purchase an Airstream new or used and your lazy butt won't go look at it personally or have it professionally inspected prior to any purchase decision!!!
Caveat Emptor!
__________________
Mike
Remember "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts"
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01-02-2022, 09:42 PM
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#33
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3 Rivet Member 
1972 25' Tradewind
East Lansing
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Ears
Tin can adventures!
So this has been a long search. I was about to just toss in the towel and buy a Silver Stream Duke, it it was too much of a project. And all the brands within airstream and floor plans were daunting.
In the end My favorite trailers are the International Ocean Breeze 23d, 2017 International signature 23cd (same floor plan I believe) . And any Onyx.
I always wanted nice finishes because I’d be full timing in this so I didn’t want to feel like I was always camping, I wanted it to feel more like a nice boat or nice hotel .
I made a last minute Hail Mary call to a dealer and they had the Airstream I wanted, a 2014 International 25FB Onyx.
It looked to be in very good condition ….on first walk around.
The International badge was a bit sun faded , so it had been stored outdoors a lot, one badge on one was more faded than the other side of the trailer .
I saw only one small gumball dent. That I hoped could be fixed.
So I agreed upon a price (which IMHO was high … initial their asking was $87K) , talked to my salesman Jeff , who said it was as perfect as they come, I asked “Is this the only thing wrong with it?” He said “It’s just about perfect we never get these in. This is the second one we have ever had for sale.” Possibly because only 136 Onyx Internationals were made.
And I went back to CA to get financing in order, started sending them wire transfers , finally a place to Xmas decorate that would feel like a little home .
So Dec. 23rd, I drive there- a horrible drive , and did the morning walk through.
As the walkthrough guy Faustino, is showing me the solar guards, he mentioned , as I have seen in videos, that when cleaning I should hold onto the front solar guards so they don’t blow open too far and dent the trailer.
And that’s when I noticed a long dent line. Uggh heart sank a bit.
Jeff, the salesperson didn’t mention this dent to me before when I asked him about it being almost damage free. And I would think as this is such a VERY VERY common damage area no experienced airstream staff wouldn’t check this spot. Jeff my salesman has been selling these for over 30 years.
So that set off a bit of an alarm in my head. I decided to look at this with less giddy eyes. I noticed the bike rack on the back was very faded, but the tail lights appeared as glossy as if they had never been outside.
But just around the corner the rear side marker lights were sun dulled, and scuffed a bit. They didn’t match. That’s like seeing brand new headlights on a used car. Hmmmm.
Inside , The front bedroom drivers side ‘corner round’ that goes floor to ceiling in the hallway by the thermostat was detached a bit, under the bed a corner was similarly detached, could this have been a sudden jolt from backing into something?
So I decided to crawl underneath the belly of the 2014 International Onyx 25FB , 9damage typically isn’t fixed perfectly where people tend not to look. and I saw a small hole near the edge, hmm maybe it bottomed out going up a steep curb?
Then, I can’t even describe what thoughts went though my head when I saw a huge gaping slash hole underneath. Big enough that a Huge fat family of skunks could crawl up and live inside and stay cozy near all the furnace ducted hoses that mice could nibble through and enter the trailer though those vents. I could fit my entire leg through this hole. Yep that big!
How can you miss this when detailing a trailer for delivery? Can you miss it? If people want to see a video or pics I can post it.
So a 7 year old trailer…. Would they have changed the tires? The tires looked new. The bottom was so clean it must have been pressure washed and brushed, because my red sweater hoody was rubbing underneath and didn’t even get dust , dirt, sand or mud on it, the dealership floors were polished concrete and clean.
Inside the hole , which I videoed, I did not see any rodent droppings or smell anything, because it was so clean, in fact impossibly sparking clean if it ‘had never been cleaned’. There were some lines, that looked like lines left from cleaning or water puddles drying, nothing that I would think would be there normally if there was no hole.
Now here’s the question… they were selling this at a price I would expect to pay for a mint trailer. But it can never be mint again because it has been damaged , sure they could patch it, or replace the entire floor plate .
Do you think they knew about this, or do you think the person who traded it in did this damage and did not tell them? Do airstream dealers throughly inspect what they buy? Or could they have missed this? I sorta think, not.
The tires , Goodyear Marthons, the ones that tend to have blow outs looked very new. Since it is 7 years old would they have changed these? They wouldn’t let me drive away on 7 year old tires right? I find it near impossible to believe that a person charging 7 year old tires would not notice this aluminum strip crumpled and hanging down from the hole .
Do they repack bearings as part of maintenance, or before they sell a used trailer as part of a safety check? Wouldn’t they see that damage then? Or do dealers just let the bearing leave possibly dry?
They sure seemed nice, but my GF saw the sales guy give the “Icksnay” nod to the walkthrough guy when he said “Uhhh we didn’t know about this before right?? (Nodding to him)”
I missed this interaction between Jeff and Faustino as I was still underneath. As soon as this was brought to their attention as well as the finance guy they seemed to be more amenable to providing linens like the ad said which they had denied earlier.
Do you think they could have missed this or am I dealing with an unscrupulous dealer? They sure seemed like nice guys. I mean let’s say they caught this damage, they could lowball the seller, 15-20K and then make a larger profit. Selling it to me as perfect and first time I scraped it they would put that blame on me.
Did they have a duty to disclose this to me? Like it IS certainly compromising damage that can lead to total loss of a trailer if left outside .
This would have immediately gotten rodent infestation in Colorado where I was planning on going where winter is going on. I had an issue with winter mice in my Frunk of my Tesla just from ketchup. Another friend of mine had a Trailer which was considered a total loss from rodent damage and he kept it at an airplane hanger and the mice got into his pantry. That’s over a $87K total loss for me!
I mean how could a dealer let a customer roll out with a rodent red carpet heated invite?
So should I still deal with these guys, if they fix the hole or just ask for all my deposit money back and run, I’m not a poker player, but I kinda feel like I’ve been played. What would you do? Ask for a discount, or buy new from another dealer?
What recourse would I have if I bought this and found a lot more issues down the line? This is a big dealer , I was pretty shocked. It really didn’t hit me until I thought about it over Christmas Eve .
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You are looking at Pandora's Box and a shifty salesman. Turn around, don't look back, walk away.
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