Trading a Classic for a Diesel Pusher MH

[FMSports]

Say it isn't so

Just got back from a 2 mo trip down in California, spent some time in a 40' motorhome for eats etc, parked next to us.

It was a 7 year old rig and I got their Firestick and Apple TV setup by connecting through the HDMI cabling. It was a Fleetwood and have to say after digging around in the cubbies, it's very well built.

My wife liked the roominess, slide outs, the washer & dryer, and of course space and storage ability.

The MH has that same quality ambience of an Airstream, just getting the right layout & features won't be easy. So I think that is the way we are going, at this point.

It's a paradigm shift for sure. They're huge and more maintenance.
We also sat in a few Brinkley 5th wheels (onsite demo) and while nice, didn't have that same pizzaz as the Classic or MH.

[Daquenzer]

My brother had a Class A and a big Class C. They did lots of traveling…all over the country, Alaska, etc. But the last few years it became difficult to find storage and it was expensive both travel and store. They weren’t traveling as much so they sold it. In both instances he bought used and they were always diesels. He did alright on resale.

If you are out for long periods a MH or 5th wheel would be a great way to go. My brother and his wife liked their rigs. The disadvantage with a MH is you have to get a toad. And both are big to drive down the road and in certain areas.

Definitely look for good used ones. They are out there.

[kb0zke]

Our first full-time rig was a 1993 40' Foretravel U300. We bought it used in 2013 and sold it two years ago when we decided we really wanted an Airstream. We loved the Foretravel, but didn't love the huge maintenance costs associated with a diesel pusher.


Fleetwood is an entry-level rig, and I don't believe they are being made anymore. If I was going to go back into a MH I'd look at either a Foretravel or Newell. Both are still in business and make quality coaches.


Just went back and looked at your current coach. We're on our way to look at (and probably buy) a 2021 Flying Cloud 30 RBQ.

[Bearstream01]

I gotta admit, the washer/dryer is really a must-have item, and the one thing that I dislike about my AS. May you have lots of luck with it!!!!!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

My experience with a big class A was back as a kid. I was *very much* not paying the fuel bill or the maintenance. Based on that experience, I very much agree that the "pusher (rear engine) design is the one to shop for. Every piece of work that got done "back then" seemed to double in price due to the front engine. (Yes, I'm going by the "story as told" since I never saw the bills ... ).

We have parked next to a number of modern class A's and had beers with various owners. Their reliability / build quality tales seem to be about as varied as those from AS folks. Many have no big issues. A few seem to have lots of stories to tell. The interesting part of that is that the stories do indeed cover some very well respected brands.

I'd suggest that you don't *assume* all will be perfect. Accept the lumps and bumps as they come. You'll be fine.

Bob

[Starlight Mike]

Main problem with MH's, big and expensive to buy and maintain. Check the price of six or eight of those new tires, scary. Camp ground laundromats are getting better but yes, would be nice to have one on the rig. I have seen custom set ups on AS's but space is certainly an issue. I think it is time for AS to reconsider slide outs.

[Hermes]

We were overnighting at a Walmart when I realized how small we were compared to the other rigs on either side of us (see photo).

The RV industry caters to a broad range of tastes, needs, lifestyles and interests in how we engage with the great outdoors (or not at all!).

We would be very frustrated with a big class A, not being able to nimbly go to places where the payoff is spectacular vistas, sunrises, sunsets and starry skies. I thinks it's what Wally had in mind, and that is what we are living.

[GOUSC]

There is an RV that will suit whatever Taste you have for your type of travel. You just need to figure out what best suits your needs.

We had a 35 foot diesel pusher years ago and loved it. Tons room and storage. There was a period where we weren’t using it that much so we sold it. When we went to replace it 7 yr later we didn’t consider anything that big and chose the chose Airstream.

We like camping and state parks, national parks, boondocking and, based on our experience, we felt the large box RVs would limit us in that area. Back in 2010 it was costing us $600 a tire when we had to replace those. I can’t imagine what the cost is now. People complain about how much it cost to fill up. However if you’re getting 8 to 10 miles per gallon. It doesn’t matter how much the fuel costs you’re still getting 8 to 10 miles per gallon whether you have a 38 gallon tank or 150 gallon tank. It was nice to drive all day and not have to worry about filling up for the next thousand miles.

We were on an airstream caravan this fall and met up with some friends who had a 45 foot Newell motorhome, who were on a Newell caravan. We both stayed in the same campground. They had triple slides on each side, marble all over the place, washer, dryer, and dishwasher. All the bells and whistles. That suited their type of travel, but it was way too big for what we like to do. The guy told me their RV was all electric, but all that meant was they had a diesel generator to provide electricity when no hook ups. There was no solar on the RV. Before he left, he ran the generator the day before to make sure the batteries were topped off, cool it down, etc. He was surprised he ran through 50 gallons of diesel to do that for the generator. To each their own. Just make sure you figure out what type of camping you do and that the RV you get does fit your style a camping.

No matter what you decide, all RVs have issues with them. Like someone else mention, Fleetwood is not one of the well built brands in my opinion. If you go with a diesel, pusher and tow a car, you will not be able to back up while you were towing. That does cause some issues when you’re trying to get in and out someplace but you’ll get used to it.

[Sailorjamie]

I'll share a few personal experiences in case you find them useful in selecting the right motorhome.

I went the other direction in 2019. I sold my 40' Fleetwood Discovery 40x, a diesel pusher, and purchased a 30' Flying Cloud. I think if I had purchased a Super-C back in 2012 when I bought the Fleetwood I'd still be driving it today. I had hoped the Class-A would be my last motorhome.

The driving experience of the class-A was great. One of the things we liked about the 40x is the layout made it pretty usable even with the slide-outs retracted. And with easy access to everything while going down the road we could get to the fridge & the bathroom while in motion and somebody could go in back and take a nap on long drives. The onboard generator for cooking, refrigeration, and air-conditioning made rest-stops and Walmart parking lots a piece of cake for mid-long-drive breaks.

The "camping" parking experience was also great. When we put all the slide-outs out it was spacious, and airy, and had a great area for 4 to 6 people to comfortably socialize.

The problem was a few design misses.

Miss #1 - The engine at the back, just behind the rear drive wheels, and then the radiator at the very back, behind the engine. We used it, drove it, year round including in the northern US, meaning Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, & Wisconsin in addition to trips down south. The design of a diesel pusher means road salt gets thrown up by the rear wheels right into the engine. The fan pulls the wet road salt and grime up, through the engine, and pushes it out through the radiator. Both our radiator and our alternator had to be replaced within the first 4 years due to corrosion.

Miss #2 - Any top of the engine maintenance requires disassembling the bed and the mechanics are going back and forth from the front entrance to the bedroom to do the work. It's a mechanic's least favorite vehicle to work on because of that.

Miss #3 - The fuel filler was on the front left, and the DEF filler was on the right rear. Truck stops all have the DEF on the left (driver's) side. That meant that every time I needed DEF I had to pull through and get fuel, and then spin around and pull through the truck stop in the wrong direction to get my DEF fill near the DEF pump. I could have done the cardboard & plastic DEF in a box but DEF is about 3 times as costly that way and produces unnecessary waste.

All of those misses wouldn't exist in a super-C. The ones I looked at have a diesel semi-truck tractor at the front, which will be maintainable at pretty much any truck stop, and the camper is on the back, something I can mostly maintain myself. With the engine up front it's not getting as much heavy direct spray from the wheels.

I view the experience of a toad with a motorhome and a trailer with a pickup truck pretty similarly. When I get old and feeble it may become time for a class B if we’re still camper travelling.

We were able to bring the travel experience of the Airstream much closer to that of the motorhome by adding a washer-dryer and a whole camper inverter along with a significant bank of lithium batteries. We can now pull off at a rest area and run the Air Conditioner or microwave a meal without hooking up a generator to the camper. And we can throw in a load of laundry any time we’re at a full hookup-site doing a load in the evening rather than spending time at a campground laundry facility. The biggest things we miss from the class A is being able to make a cup of coffee or use the bathroom while rolling down the road.

[suncoasteng]

Go For It.....always great to jump in the deep end. A Class A MH gives you an opportunity to have three engines to maintain, two vehicles to register & insure, and upwards of 14 tires on the pavement. Plus you get a vehicle that knows when you have cash in your savings account

[Life is a Highway]

Have you priced Tires annual maintenance service costs! and MC service fees.

Choose Wisely !

[FMSports]

My wife is not going with the "tin can" again so I don't have an option if the both of us want to travel south.

The trips through Oregon and Calif have been amazing. However, driving we had to limit trips to 3-4 hours on the day (back injury)

Up here, there is no one I know of with a diesel MH. Just not around. Only see a few here are there in campgrounds.

Go to Sunoutdoors mega-resorts and MH are de riguer, like Hermes says we are in a tent-trailer in comparison.

I do have a toad a Fiat 500 5 spd @ 2700lbs. I can even pull the diesel RAM 4x4 truck or Range Rover will flat tow (any 4x4 with center diff that can be put in N)

[GOUSC]

As I mentioned earlier, there is an RV for everyone’s situation and you situation may work best with a large MH. My wife wishes our Airstream had recliners. In 5-10 years our travel may change. Just go in with all the information you can find.

Will you still have back issues with a large MH vs your current situation. If there are no large MH’s up there can you find a place to have it serviced? Go to a RV park that has the large MH’s and ask people all the questions you need answered. Go to a large RV show this winter and walk thru all different RV’s. Etc.

Find the TV that works for you or find out if one does or does not exist.

[SunchaserV]

Originally Posted by Sailorjamie

All of those misses wouldn't exist in a super-C. The ones I looked at have a diesel semi-truck tractor at the front, which will be maintainable at pretty much any truck stop, and the camper is on the back, something I can mostly maintain myself. With the engine up front it's not getting as much heavy direct spray from the wheels.

Great summary SJ. The MH you described above is to me the penultimate way to go if you want a big rig. I chose a different direction last month with a Nash 25KT and a F250 diesel. So many choices -----

[Mollysdad]

I went from a 40' Motorhome to an Airstream.
I loved the motorhome, to me the biggest luxury was an ice maker in the freezer.
But, it was fun when I was making a decent living and when I retired the routine expenses got to be less fun.
First, it had a Spartan Chassis with a Cat diesel. Worked great, easy to drive (If you're not intimidated by size)
Here's what drove me away.
1. oil change $500
2. Tires set $3500 (they do last a long time)
3. Roof reseal. too often, dealer profit?
4. Dash A/C needed $1000 every year. With the engine in the back but the evaporator in the front, and it sat for long periods, there was always a failure.
5. Too many systems. Hydraulic jacks, relays, generator.
6. 8.5 MPG (and that was when diesel was relatively cheap and there was no DEF.)
7. Daily fill up. 80 gallons. But 600 mile range.
8. You need another vehicle to get around for shopping, service etc.
9. You're not going to squeeze into some tiny State Park campsites.
10. Campgrounds are shunning MH ten years old.
11. with age comes less mobility. Those seven steps to get in started looking too painful over the three steps in the Airstream.
12. I'd see families camping in a truck camper with three kids and two dogs, and realized I don't need that much room!

I often said, "If I won the lottery I'd buy a Bluebird and pay someone else to maintain it."

[gypsydad]

Sometimes we seem to always want something else, and the MH's out there today surely are nice! Friends who own big MH's by us each summer, share their likes and dislikes. Where we stay in summer at Star Valley Ranch RV Resort in WY, we get to discuss ownership. Maintenance seems to be biggest issue, when needed on these rigs, aside from the "cost" of ownership each year. Limited parking access in campgrounds, as mentioned, another big deal when traveling. MPG for sure somewhat of an issue. But, once inside with the slides out, I agree they are pretty sweet! If money were no object, I am sure my wife would let me get one. Thank the Lord she is very happy with our 28'AS!

[2008RN]

I had a 35ft GMC Grayhound bus conversion back in the 1990s, the ultimate aluminum beast. It was great traveling with the kids. Everybody had room to sleep, eat, and potty while traveling down the road at 6-8 MPG. As everyone else has said, Upkeep is more. Fuel, Batteries,tires, oil changes, etc.


The space was great, having everything at your fingertips was great. the down side besides cost was always worrying at where I was going to stay. We got into a few every tight spots, were I had to unload the car and tow dolly and move them out of the to get out of a jam.



We have a 23ft Oliver now, and I have came close to a couple of tight spots, but we are able to go to more remote places and boon dock a lot more even though we have a lot less black/gray water space than the bus. With just the 2 of us, we don't mind the confined space. Most times we aren't staying in the trailer 24hrs a day like a house. The outdoors is as much our relaxation space, at night either sitting at a camp fire if possible or watching a movie or play cards and listening to music. We have all the space we need, in the 23ft trailer.



There again there is no one size fits all. I know some people the Cab over truck camper and 4 wheel drive gives them the ability to go anywhere. On the other hand, I know one person the has a 40ft MH that drives to a nice resort camping, then drives the toad out to the surrounding states to see all the sights, using motels and the comes back to the MH as a home base. They hate driving the beast and dealing with upkeep from it being on the road.



To each his own

[MarkFranke]

I sat with a couple campers several years ago listening to a conversation regarding one couple's choice of a very nice Class A, the other a very nice 5th wheel. The 5th wheel owner made the point that engines are designed to run. He said the worst thing you can do to an engine is let it sit and that is even more true with diesel engines. Most people camp seasonally so that engine in a Class A motorhome is sitting for months and months on end. Plus he claimed insurance is quite a bit higher because you are insuring a unit with an engine. Those were the deciding factors for them to go with the 5th wheel.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think a large part depends on how you intend to use your unit and how often you intend to use it.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Every single type of RV out there has its positives and its negatives. There is no "perfect" RV design. What works well in one situation is likely to be a disaster in another situation. Bigger is better in some ways and worse in others. Expensive is fine for some folks and not so fine for others.

You can have endless campfire debates comparing any two randomly chosen RV's. I started listening to those debates back in the 1950's. Yes things have changed since then. The debates still go on and on. In some cases the same brand names get mentioned ... hmmmm .... Often with exactly the same positive and negative comments attached

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Every single type of RV out there has its positives and its negatives. There is no "perfect" RV design. What works well in one situation is likely to be a disaster in another situation. Bigger is better in some ways and worse in others. Expensive is fine for some folks and not so fine for others.

You can have endless campfire debates comparing any two randomly chosen RV's. I started listening to those debates back in the 1950's. Yes things have changed since then. The debates still go on and on. In some cases the same brand names get mentioned ... hmmmm .... Often with exactly the same positive and negative comments attached

Bob

True. But, I look back on "why" we got an "RV" in the first place, and our first was an "older" Class A called the "Calypto". Had been sitting in a field for several years, but only had 20+K miles on it at the time...think it was a 1972 model? We took her for a test run before heading off from CA to MT for the summer with 4 kids, and it slept 2 in dinnette, 2 in pull down overhead bunk up front, and dinnette made into a bed for wife and I; perfect! We could even eat and go to the bathroom while I was driving! Our first night along the trip, we found a big bubble on one of the 9 year old tires as we were parking, which we replaced in the morning. Second night another tire had same issue as we were pulling in to our camp spot, so another tire. Third night same thing; neighbors at our campsite outside pointing at our rear tire bulge as big as a balloon! Finally replaced all 4 tires, then the exhaust pipe came off while on the highway...didn't realize till we stopped and a guy who had been following us said he tried to get our attention some 40 miles earlier about loosing the exhaust, but we wern't paying attention... Then after a week in MT, our transmission went out. Another $650 we hadn't planned for. We changed the name to "Colapso" and I sold it to my cousin for half what I paid for it, now with all the bad stuff fixed; he used it for 5 years with no issues!

Next, we got a "used" popup, and towed it over the country for a summer; then sold it for $1,000 more than we paid for it. That was a great, but we missed the onboard bathroom, ready to go kitchen in bad weather which was nice in the Colapso. Gave up towing a trailer for a while, and just traveled in our van with a tent. 6INRVAN was our license...and had great times with the tent and the kids. Once they were gone, in 2008, we got our first 25' AS. Looked at MH's, decided it better suited our needs to be able to have a Tow Vehicle and be able to disconnect from our AS, while having all the comfort of the fully equipped AS and use our TV also as daily driver while camped and at home. We are now on our 4th AS; this one we are still enjoying all over the US in summer when traveling/camping, but we also have a 2017 5th wheel 40' Montana we stay in now in WY. This is our third 5th wheel since getting an RV spot in WY 5 years ago. We have found the 28' AS is very nice while traveling/camping, but for the 2 of us, the 5th wheel is much more comfortable to spend long periods of time in one location. We do not travel with the 5th wheel and I had all 3 of the 5th wheels we have owned in WY, delivered; I am not set up for towing, nor would I want to. I see these massive rigs going down the highway...sometimes have seen them on their side, or where they have crunched an overhead...some of these are just way to big for me to consider towing! Scarry watching some folks trying to camp in National Parks or Campgrounds with these monsters!

But, once your inside a 5th wheel, the living/cooking/lounge/ and sleeping areas, they are very nice....like a large Class A MH, but a "LOT" less money to own and especially to maintain vs a MH.

So, for now, wife is very happy with the 28' FCTwin and our F250; advantage to me is easy to hitch/unhitch and set up, nice size for us when traveling, and tows great...so, I guess so am I!