Therapy needed: buying jitters

[Hit'the'road]

This is a great forum so I'm hoping maybe somebody has some words of wisdom to help me sort out my thoughts.

I've been fascinated for awhile with A/Ss. I just think they're cool. So I got the idea that I would get myself one in celebration of my 50 birthday. I did research and settled on getting a 25' CCD and a Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax. I'm single and have no real obligations that would stop me from going through with the purchases, but now I'm having doubts.

The doubts:

1. It's a lot of money $90,000. $1200 a month when financed.
2. I've never really been camping in a trailer, so I don't know if I'll really like it.
3. What if I don't feel comfortable towing a trailer around?
4. Will I use it enough to make the expense worthwhile?

The pluses are:

1. I can travel with my cat
2. There is a lot of this country I haven't seen yet, and I want to see it.
3. I have about 14 weeks of vacation a year, to hit the road
4. Airstreams are just plain cool... american icons

Any suggestions on making the decision to become an Airstreamer? Anyone with a similar experience?

[Stefrobrts]

My husband was also very skeptical that he would enjoy towing a trailer around, and staying in a trailer on vacation. We also wondered if it would be worth the expense. So we decided to go with a vintage trailer, because the initial cost was much lower (though it has required tinkering to keep it all working). The end result: towing is no big deal, we love staying in our own place every night instead of a strange hotel room, and recently we travelled across the state for an overnighter and discovered it was actually cheaper to take the trailer than to take the high mpg car and stay in a hotel. Plus we had a spot by the lake when we got there.

My husband, the skeptic, adores our little trailer and insists nothing else could ever replace it. We spent two weeks in it this summer travelling halfway across the country and back, and didn't regret a minute of it, except when some well meaning friends along the way insisted we stay in the guest bedroom - I would have rather been in the trailer.

Good luck on your decision, but I say treat yourself and go for it. There's a reason so many people are so enamored with their airstreams, and you won't really understand until you have one.

[john hd]

The doubts:

hittin the road,

cost, you may be able to deduct the cost of the trailer as a second home, check into it.

the truck, who could complain about getting a new duramax 2500HD!

never stayed in a trailer before? lemme let you in on a little secret steph hit on, i travel for work quite a bit. every time i'm stuck in a motel i wish i had my trailer with me! at least i know who the last person that slept in the bed was!

towing, i have the unique experiance of towing every kind of trailer you can think of at work (power company) from small to way huge. some tow bad, some trailers are downright horrible and almost impossible to handle even with a 25,000 lb truck!

airstreams are a pure pleasure to tow, they are well mannered because of balance and areodynamic shape, you will hardly know it is back there! really!!

14 weeks of vacation??!!! i wish!! you will have plenty of time to enjoy both the truck and trailer!

john

[overlander63]

If you don't mind getting a trailer that has more camping experience than you, you may consider getting a unit that is 5 years old or so. The initial cost will be lower, any "bugs" will have been found and fixed, and if, God forbid, you decide that camping isn't for you, you won't take such a huge hit on depreciation when you sell it.
As for the 2500HD, if you can use it for other things besides towing the trailer, go for it.
Terry

[sd90mac]

Go for it.
You don't need suitcases, load the trailer with clothes, and leave them there.
You know who slept in your bed last, and you have your favorite snacks and food behind you. You can stop anywhere to eat, and just stop to rest. You don't have to spend a fortune on motels, hotels, etc. We have a KOA discount card, and it takes 10 to 15 % off campsites. Not to mention you can stay in the airstream parks.
Besides, you can join the WBCCI amd meet lots of nice people like us.
IMHO it's the only way to travel.
Good Luck
Marie

[Over59]

It comes down to your personal financial margin of comfort. With just yourself to be responsible for you could go fulltime for a year if you want and still have a new truck and trailer at the other end. If you cann't be comfortable with the 90 then do the used trailer thing to try it. You can always trade up later if you like it. The truck will last 'til nursing home time.
If you try the WBCCI you may discover a new life style. With 14 weeks you could really do some streamin. By the way not all dealers are equally motivated to give you a good price, that is good for you. There are other threads here which have good info on buying, discounts, and dealers.

There is a yearly NAPA rally. I don't remember who puts it on but you might go over and get a feel for things. Seems to me it's in the fall sometime. Maybe the Vintage Club.

[sovereignrwe]

We spent a couple of years talking about RVs and other trailers. I wasn't even looking for an Airstream and the ad for a Vintage 28' Airstream smacked me in the face. We were just going to go look at the Airstream just to see what it was like. We ended up buying that very vintage Airstream after a lot of research (enough for me to figure out it was really a 31' trailer) and a ton of financial evaluation and several trips to see it. I even spent a day working on it trying to find out if this worked or that worked before we agreed on a price.

My wife thought our trailer was a 6-7 before looking in a new trailer and now she actually thinks ours is a 9-10. She love's our trailer now that she has something to compare it to. She can't believe what we got in a vintage trailer for the price in comparison to the nice new trailers that are spendy.

Bottom Line: Buy the vintage trailer (ours was in the $4000 range - invest $1500-$4000 in repairs (get the running gear in order, other safety items, and any required improvements - I repaired a few leaks in the plumbing due to frozen pipes - and next season will be $500 in a new water heater). Keep your receipts. If you don't like pulling the trailer or staying in it, you won't be out much money at all. You'll lose nearly the price of the trailer when you drive the truck off of the lot. It may also give you the chance to see what you like and don't like before investing the big bucks in a new trailer.

Just one man's opinion.

[dmac]

Some thoughts:

- Try renting a camper for a one week trip. You probably cannot rent a travel trailer, much less an Airstream, but you could rent a motorhome. At least you can decide if you like camping! Note: we previously owned an SOB motorhome - cheap construction, noisy, poor handling, terrible gas mileage, and no car when you arrive at the campground - unless you tow a car along which seems excessive to me. We enjoyed the camping - but when we sold it we decided that next time we would own a trailer. The trailer has been a much better solution!

- Start with a used tow vehicle and a used trailer. You could buy a nice newer pair for 1/2 price. If you don't like trailer camping, or don't use it enough, you can always sell for minimal loss.

- Life is short, and you can't take it with you. We do not use our trailer enough to "justify" it's cost - because of work and we also enjoy doing other things too... like air travel and our cabin. So what! I am 48 so it won't be too many years until I have more time to use it. With our occasional use, and being stored indoors, in 10 years from now we will have enjoyed 20-30 trips and it will still be as nice as the day we bought it and ready for retirement travels.

- Towing a large heavy trailer is scary for everyone at first. It is amazing how fast the skills are learned and you are back in your comfort zone again. If my non-mechanical wife, who is afraid of almost everything, can drive our Ford Explorer/Safari 25 combination then anyone can!

Good luck! With 14 weeks of vacation each year - give it a try!

[fireflyinva]

Yikes! $1200 a month is a whole lot! Still, you are getting two brand new high-end items. I agree with everyone here--but here are some additional thoughts...

In reaction to your doubts, why don't you try renting a rig for a week or so to see how you like it? Granted, it's likely to be a motorhome (and probably some other brand), but it will give you a taste of the basic process--all the fun things like driving a heavier vehicle, leveling, dumping, etc.

By the way, your cats may not tollerate road life. Ours did not--so we still leave them home (there are lots of potential problems for feline trailer travelers--escaping to a strange surounding, getting spooked, not tolerating the movement, etc.). OTOH, some cats love it. It really depends on your pets. If you do take your cats along if you "test" rv life, be sure to be prepared to clean up (lots of cleaner, towels, stink remover) if they make a mess.

Now you can economize by buying either the trailer or the tow vehicle used. That said, used CCDs are scarcer than hens teeth--sad, since then you could avoid the immediate depreciation of driving the unit off the lot. Take into consideration also that there are tax benefits to trailer debt (it can be handled like a vacation home) but there is no advantage to the additional vehicle.

If you do decide to go used, there are a range of options. What you choose depends on your tollerance for fixing up and dealing with old equipment. We have an old trailer and an old tow vehicle. Both came in useable condition, but we found many things we found necessary to fix to get the unit in optimal condition. There are also things--like the plumbing--that needed repair soon after we got the unit. Also, the systems on newer trailers are distinctly easier to operate (and get spare parts for) than on older ones (unless you get a unit that has been completely rehabbed with all new systems).

For us, we decided to spend the least on the tow vehicle. We got an older Yukon and immediately installed a new towing grade transmission after installation. It's a car we use little outside of our trailering use, since it is so expensive for mileage.

That said, financing is tough when you are talking about an older unit. We initially had to take out a personal loan to cover expenses, since an auto/rv loan would not cover such old vehicles. Later, I ran into problems concerning getting the bank to honor terms stated. I ended up cashing out stock to pay for it, which is sad, since the bank's regional vice president ended up calling me to apologize for the error. Too bad--but beside saying sorry, there was little way to fix it (and I wasn't going to bring my account back to them).

Good luck,

Mary

[j54mark]

In general, buying a new anything is hard to justify economically: cars, rvs, houses, boats, etc. There are exceptions, of course. I found my new Duramax to be one of those exceptions. The resale value on the used market was so high and the dealer incentives were so strong that I could not make the case for buying used.

You simply never hear of anyone who sells their trailer because of towing problems unless they have a bad hitch setup or poor tow vehicle. The combination you describe will be a very easy tow. It quickly becomes second nature.

You do hear of people who simply do not like the RV life, or decide they should have gotten a fifth wheel, or motorhome, or whatever. I don't know how to help you there. In our own case we just somehow KNEW we would like it - and we have!

In the case of a used Airstream vs. new, certainly the financial risk is much lower in buying a used one. However, unless you like working on things, and are very handy, you would be better off buying a real late model. For a CCD that is the only choice anyway as they only came out four or five years ago. In fact, the 25' CCD was introduced just last year, or maybe the year before.

Mark

[Ken J]

From a financing point of view, taking loans out on fast depreciating investments is not a great idea - I know everybody does it, just not me.

I think renting a motorhome is a great idea - for about one months payment on your proposal, you can get a motorhome for about a week - take a nice weeks trip see if you like it - you will either get the bug or you will bag the idea. Like John I'll take my trailer anytime - if I NEVER stay in a motel/hotel again that will be OK with me.

Ken

[Big Dee]

90 gees for a 25' CCD? Can that be right? I paid 58 for a 30' Classic and that's a lot more coach. Can't believe that price. $1200 a month? Holly smokes! I pay $350 a month. Something wrong here.

As for seeing the country, simply put THERE IS NO BETTER WAY TO SEE THE COUNTRY THAN WITH AN AIRSTREAM. Period.

And yes, towing is nerve racking in the begining but the learning curve is steep and before long you will feel confident in ANY situation.

Best bet is go to a real RV show (not a fake one by one dealer) and check them out as well as everything else. And you can get a good price.

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by Big Dee

90 gees for a 25' CCD? Can that be right? I paid 58 for a 30' Classic and that's a lot more coach. Can't believe that price. $1200 a month? Holly smokes! I pay $350 a month. Something wrong here.

$90k for the Airstream AND Truck...

Shari

[markjoandall]

Happy Birthday,

Go for it. Did the same thing four years ago and I even spent the same amount of Money. Took a four week 11,000 mile trip last summer and could have stayed out till the snow flew. Me the dear wife and scout the pug. Can't wait till next year.

[Janet H]

renting an rv for a trial is just not the same thing as an A/S. If you are one of those folks who like clean spaces and loads of light go for the ccd. Even older A/S can be dingy and dark. The problem is the dark wood on the interiors and the early american feel of the decor. The 25 ccd is just about perfect!

We have a 2500HD and love it. The seats are comfortable and it is surprisingly quiet. We would love a ccd to go with it. Short of gutting an older A/S to modernize the interior, the ccd is the best (or maybe a better) option. Rehabbing an older trailer is a lot of work and expense. You can't take that cash with you.....

[fireflyinva]

Please note, I never meant to suggest that another RV will ever come close to the aesthetic appeal of any Airstream. But renting one is a good way to identifying if the rv "camping" lifestyle is to your taste (although with a motorhome, you'll never quite experience the exquisite joys of backing a trailer into a tight camping slot). I personally had a former coworker who bought a SOB trailer and loved it right until her first dump. The experience was far beyond her comfort level and she couldn't face it again. She ended up selling the unit at a big loss.

I have to protest to one generalization--very few vintage units have dark wood, an early American feel, or are dark and dingy! Janet, you really need to see a vintage rally to see some of the neat stuff folks are doing with older units (or at least skim the photo archives here)! There are rehabs that are even more cutting edge than what Airstream produces (one of my favorites is Lexxy's trailer in the archives). Restorations can be really impressive as well, bringing back only the best part of the vintage era represented. Moreover, if you buy a fully restored or rehabbed trailer, there won't necessarily be any more work/expense associated with maintenance than with a new trailer (maybe less, if the workmanship is better than Jackson City). In fact, purchasing will probably come in at a lower cost (drawback--tough financing if you don't have cash on hand).

But at the bottom of this is a personal decision for all who consider buying a trailer (or a tow vehicle, for that matter). There are cost/investment issues, lifestyle issues, and personal taste concerns. For us, the opportunity cost (ie, how much time would we have to work above our current financial obligations to save the money--and what other opportunities we would pass up in the equasion) for the kind of combination of trailer and tow vehicle wasn't justified with the purchase of new vehicles. The thing is this tradeoff is different for everyone--so you have to allow everyone to make their own decision in that way. And, while CCDs are cool, they aren't the only cool option out there, by a long shot.

Now a friend of mine who tracks trends for marketing reports shared an interesting point with me about "coolness." The current theory is that the only styles that are ever considered embarrassingly unfashionable are the most recent trends to fade from popularity. Once a trend fades, the previous style goes into a revival, oftentimes reinterpreted.

This may mean that in ten (or so) years, the CCD may end up embarassingly gauche, while 80's trailer returns to coolness in a hip retro way. In twenty years, though, the CCD might be cool again, considered by all as a retro emblem of the early 2000s! The great part about this marketing theory--once something goes into revival, it will always have cachet as a "classic" until it becomes so old that its rarity gives it additional status (so hopefully, my precious '61 becomes a valuable antique)!

Something to think about!

Mary

Originally Posted by Janet

renting an rv for a trial is just not the same thing as an A/S. If you are one of those folks who like clean spaces and loads of light go for the ccd. Even older A/S can be dingy and dark. The problem is the dark wood on the interiors and the early american feel of the decor. The 25 ccd is just about perfect!

We have a 2500HD and love it. The seats are comfortable and it is surprisingly quiet. We would love a ccd to go with it. Short of gutting an older A/S to modernize the interior, the ccd is the best (or maybe a better) option. Rehabbing an older trailer is a lot of work and expense. You can't take that cash with you.....

[maxandgeorgia]

Mary, that was a fascinating post to read! About the on-going discussion and expense of the new CCD, please note that several of us here on the forum are proud owners of those "embarrassingly" ten year old range AS's (I'm poking fun at myself here, Mary!) and love them. We have units that helped us escape the BIG depreciation of the new units and that have not demanded the refitting needed by the older, vintage units. Just another option to consider. And by the way, we are also among the 2500HD owners who love the way our trucks tow our babies! Ouch to the fuel bills, but everyone is feeling that pinch now. So much to consider, but bettcha you'll love it if you get it--and never look back, just ahead at the next bend in the road! Hope we get to welcome you to the world of Airstreaming!

[Condoluminum]

There are two basic questions in need of asnwering before a $90K depreciating investment looks really like genius...

1. Is the camping experience in general (campgrounds, hookups, travel with pets, freedom from worry about housekeeping, etc) one you will actually enjoy over other forms of travel?

2. Is the Airstream 25CCD and 2500HD truck the necessary and right combo, or would some other combo work as well or better for less money $..

If you've never driven from campground to campground with the cat and done hookups and cooked with propane, I'd second the proposal to try renting a small motorhome for a long weekend just to experience the concepts. Perhaps the cat gets carsick, or you hate taking showers in small showers with limited hot water & pressure, or whatever... If you change your mind after $90K contracts signed, it will be expensive...

With respect to trailer and trucks, it's a very personal value judgment, but I'd urge consideration of starting cheaper and trading up, rather than starting at top and having a difficult exit strategy.. With current gas prices and panic, there are lots of late model trucks and vans and Suburbans or Excursions available for $15K to $20K which make great first time tow vehicles. There are also lots of used trailers from vintage to late 90's Safari's for under $20K in lengths of 20 to 27'. Starting at combined entry cost of $40K to $50K with financing (and second home deductible interest on trailer) is a lower risk starting point, though I'd acknowledge it will always be a "compromise" relative to your dreams, and some dreams just don't lend themselves to compromising...

Many members of Forum have bought previously owned, and sold for same amount or more to trade up to new trailers or bigger ones... It is lower risk and lower cost, but value trade is yours to make..

Since Big Dee didn't mention it, you could also choose to drive down to Monterey Peninsula this weekend and join Forum camping event at Laguna Seca campground and talk to a dozen or more Forum members, and check out their vehicles, from new to used to vintage... Group will be gone by noon Sunday ( I imagine, but more than 12 trailers due to be there Saturday night).

John McG

[Stefrobrts]

A rally is an excelent way to check out rigs and hear people's stories of their camping adventures. You definitly have to be pretty easygoing to enjoy RVing. I loved the story about someone bailing out of the whole deal because she didn't like dumping. You've got to be a little more easy-going than THAT, I'm afraid.

Personally, I think of my vintage unit as 'cozy' with it's dark wood and yellowed vinyl walls. But I think any vintage unit will be in constant need of tinkering. This is from years of experience with classic cars. There's always something else needs fixing. Maybe not if you bought one totally rebuilt from the ground up with new appliances and all, but pretty much any other one you might buy.

I've seen some very nice units in the ten year old range that look as good as new to me, have all the ammenities, and are a steal in comparative price to new ones. They don't have the aluminum interiors (how many of us are waiting for the day that the CCDs start hitting the used market regularly? Lots, I'm sure!) but they are very nice, and would make a good starting point. Then you could treat yourself with an upgrade later if you really enjoy it.

[Hit'the'road]

Wow, this is a great forum. Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. I'm seriously thinking about heading down to Laguna Seca to visit with the folks at the rally. It's only 150 miles away.

I'm just about ready to just make the leap. If it's a bad decision, it won't be the first bad decision I have made in my life. Very few bad decisions can't be fixed. But, I don't think this looks like a bad choice.

I could work at getting into the Airstreamer world more inexpensively, but part of the "I'm turning 50 and deserve to treat myself" thinking is to get all the best, shiny new stuff. I mean a sparkling new AS and the smell of new leather upolstery in the tow vehicle, not to mention heated seats. How can you go wrong?

Thanks for all your support!