The work goes on, the dream is not accomplished, keep me strong. 90's lite n up ?

[Tony S]

Hi good folks, your information continues to be a real blessing to so many others and me. I read, and read, and read posts about things and issues and fun and disappointment and love of AS. I am sorting out the dollar and sense things right now. I started to say to myself take all that great advice and buy the best you can afford and look around for it until you know you YES this is the one is the way to go. Even if I have to call the credit union if the yes comes before all the money is saved. So it was looking like stay away from vintage and go for something in the 2000’s.
Then I read an 18-page thread on mid to late 2000’s and the problems of the frame cracking because of the square bends and the cracking (with pics) of the hatch frame even after repairs cracked and the poor responses from the dealer and Airstream.
So I started looking at SOB of high quality, relatively speaking. Arctic Fox, Lance and a new one, Evergreen. They were good. The Arctic Fox too heavy. Then my wife and I drove 3 hours to Eugene Oregon to George M Sutton RV, seemed to be nice people, and got into some new AS. Well, you know the rest of the story. Back on the trail of an AS. My wife is a reserved person but showed a real attraction to the AS model that was described as more European styling. Some of that is knowing I don’t like faked or lousy woodwork, being a furniture maker.

There is no way I could or would buy new. I was raised by a depression baby and remain a working guy (skilled perhaps and state college educated but still a working guy, you know take my shower after work not before) along with a wife raised by dust bowl folks who studied and worked her way into a profession. We get up work and earn and pay and pay and save. Every two weeks money goes into the AS account. I will say that acts as consolation prize to a long search, that the bank account grows incrementally pay period by pay period little by little.


Since I have turned back to AS after a temporary month of disillusionment and joyful return to the search I was hoping I could run my evaluation to date by you wise folk and see if it is on track. I absolutely do not want to have to do a full frame-up restoration. I don’t want to deal with frame problems, aluminum wire and I am not inclined to doing things like axle replacement myself, although after some time I would pay or horse trade to get it done. I would like to have a grey water tank. I am more inclined to change things out as needed and get on the road in a relatively short time. When we were at the AS dealership in Eugene Oregon it became apparent that new and newish 25’ is probably too heavy for our TV. We like the extra two feet. Especially in light of what so many have said about not cutting oneself short due to discomfort about So I guess as I write I see cents if I end up so lucky in buying a owned trailer by one of you all that has been used and loved and restored with the pex and the axel etc. and who love their AS but are reluctantly trading up for size reasons. I like the twin model of the 70’s Trade wind.

My question is what makes the 90’s vintages so much heavier? Is it mostly the solid wood cabinets, corion and ???. Can I strip it out and build my own lighter weight cabinets and use plastic laminate to lighting it up to around 70’s vintage. I would like the newer model to limit the amount of work that I am not too comfortable doing. I need a coach I can tow with my 2004 135” wheelbase AWD Chevy Explorer 5.3L 373 with slip differential. Rated at 6600 and be either a 23 min. or a 25’. Any thoughts would be great. Tony Rogue River Oregon a nice are to travel to.

[mcair]

80's would probably work for you. New enough to not need frame off or axles, but old enough to be affordable. We have an '88 excella 29'. Dry weight is 5600 so a 25 should be lighter and well within the limits of your TV. We paid $6500 for it last year. So far we have replaced the frig, twin mattresses, converter and the microwave and we still have less than $10k invested. We need to seal around a couple of windows yet and complete a few other minor repairs but overall we are very happy with it and it does not have a payment.

[mcair]

Forgot to add. Ours has a 50 gal fresh water tank, 35 gal black and 35 gal grey so we have plenty of boondocking capacity.

[jjustice]

Tony S,
Well, you have done your research that is for sure and good for you. If you like the 70s AS have you thought about a 70s Argosy? They are buile by AS, look like an AS (except for the paint) and have some featurer that were placed in AS several years later (Argosy used by AS to 'test the market'). My wife and I bought a 78 Argosy 27ft and it is plenty big for two people, rear bath two full sized beds and I pull it with an 05 Durango (towing range up to 8700 lbs and the Argosy weighs in at 6200 lbs loaded. We have an AS friend who took his 76, 24ft Argosy and gutted it and he being a cabinent maker redesigned the whole interior to look like a new AS (inside) and he then painted the Argosy and his TV (a 1950s 1ton GMC) the same color. It is a real beauty. You can see his rig on page 36 in the Gallary. Mine is on the front page of the forum.





Good luck and safe driving.
jjairstream

[Tony S]

Yes I failed to mention my interest in Argosy. I do one of my around the world searches every couple of days on the Argosy and everyday basically on the Airstream. And when my fix is not filled I go on to Avions and Silver Streaks for grins and giggles. I looked at most pictures of 24' Argosy and Trade Winds on the Vintage site. There is a 78 Trade Wind currently in Grants Pass Oregon. I believe a pretty fair body the kid was originally asking $4000. I knew more than him. I told him that I didn't know much but.... Told him to me it was a gut job and if someone offered him $2000.00,and that I was not, he should take it. I just looked two days ago to see if it was still there and a month later. He was off to Arizona. If I wanted it I would low ball him in case he needs the money. BUT you all have educated me about field cured AS. Tony

[pauluptime]

Hang in there, Tony. Your the perfect AS is out there.

In our case it took about 3 years of looking to learn exactly what we wanted: a mid-70's, 31ft center bath/rear bedroom International that was CLEAN CLEAN with a dent-free body. Once we knew, it took just another 2 years until we found it... on eBay.

Our '79 Sovereign International is exactly what we wanted, from the estate of a 1-owner couple with no kids, no smoke, no pets who were both active in the Florida WBCCI. It was lovingly cared for and professionally maintained all it's life. It had recently received a new interior "sponged" paint job, new carpeting throughout, new hardwood floor in the galley, toilet and more, all very professionally executed. We bought it last year when prices were definitely lower and circumstances made it possible (and fun!) to go down to Florida and get it.

Added to our initial purchase costs were many new transport/safety items like new tires, bearings/brakes, umbilical and new hitch, brake controller and wiring for the TV. Once it was back home, I did spend a lot of time, effort and bucks replacing the main fuse panel, all plumbing (with pex lines) and all new propane lines incl. rebuilding the water heater and a brand new furnace.

The end result however is that for less than a third the price of new, we have a perfect "last of the vintage 70's" models with a rear bedroom which besides our layout preference I believe is also less suceptible to rear floor rot/separation since there's no sink/toilet/tub and plumbing back there. I did have to do some work to the mid-bath floor but it was minor, and was able to replace the plumbing without ripping the interior all apart. I have no concern that with the quality service work now complete, this trailer can easily, affordably deliver another 30 (or more) good years of service looking forward. We may never sell it but it's also nice to know our hard costs will be easily recouped as the depreciation stage is long passed.

There is a lot to be said for buying old, then filling it with new good stuff, all done in your own way and attention to detail. I'm sorry for the long post but fewer of us take the time to post about our good experiences, so this is just to let you know that GOOD ol' Airstreams are out there!

Keep the faith!

[fotochop]

Paul above makes many good points in relation to what you're seeking...

...wait until you can find an already-renovated trailer, done to high standards and workmanship. you will pay more but save SO much time and, believe it or not, money... go camping immediately!

vintage.

[Tony S]

I will hang in there and keep looking here is what happens when you look too much. I attach a couple of pic of an experimental (prototype) media cabinet I recently built. It is not my usual style. I don't know I think my design was subconscious influenced by my AS search. It wasn’t done on purpose and took a couple weeks to see the arch resembled (roughly) the shape of an AS. In actuality I knew I was slightly influence by the windshield of a Chris Craft
Behind the arch goes the center speaker for home theater set uplwood boat.

So it goes to show you must watch out for the suggestive influences of your environments.

[VIKING]

Originally Posted by Tony S

I will hang in there and keep looking here is what happens when you look too much. I attach a couple of pic of an experimental (prototype) media cabinet I recently built. It is not my usual style. I don't know I think my design was subconscious influenced by my AS search. It wasn’t done on purpose and took a couple weeks to see the arch resembled (roughly) the shape of an AS. In actuality I knew I was slightly influence by the windshield of a Chris Craft
Behind the arch goes the center speaker for home theater set uplwood boat.

So it goes to show you must watch out for the suggestive influences of your environments.

That's beautiful Tony. May we all be blessed with such graceful curving influences!

Rich the Viking (and fellow cabinetmaker)

[Tony S]

Thanks Rich, The wood is curly Lyptos and Wenge if you were wondering. Work Safe Tony

[Ganaraska]

If you didn't live on the other side of the country I would offer to swap work. You help me build a new interior for my Airstream and I will help you do brakes, axles, etc on yours.

Possibly you could find a skilled mechanic Airstreamer in your area to help you find the right Airstream and bring it to perfection when you do.

[Tony S]

Nothing would please me more. I am a labor trader from way back. Always worked out good all around. I did offer to trade furniture, with examples, on Craig's List locally for an Air Stream. It was a shot in the dark. Thanks for the encouragement. Attached are pics of my latest furniture that went to Bay area gallery in California call Made in Pescadero. Need to sell a couple sets to get me to where I want to be with the AS saving account. The wood is Sapale and wenge accent in Peruvian Walnut handles. The sapale would be nice in a coach if not too dark. Tony

[pauluptime]

Tony, the results of your work and talent look exquisite. Would love to see what you could accomplish in a full re-do of an Airstream interior. Yes these trailers are designed for travel, camping in rugged outdoors, use by families, pets, etc. but also (as in our case) by couples who appreciate fine coachwork too.

The engineered oe panels AS uses are light weight, durable, flexible, save space and I suppose they are environmentally friendly, but in the end... there is only so much plastic woodgrain a room can take.

Even after 10 years as a daily driver I am struck by the beautiful amber polished sycamore trim Audi used in my A6. I like the luminance of light colored wood integrated with polished metals, it would be amazing to see that sort of design consideration applied in an Airstream.

Tony - You might know this - Are there any attractive natural woods that might also be selected on a basis of strength and low mass? Maybe veneers are still the best compromise, but would real veneers stand up to use?

[Tony S]

Thanks for the complement. I love the wood interiors of pre 70's AS. I will probably, eventually, change out a 70's trailer plastic for wood interior. There is nothing wrong with high quality plywood (veneer) in a trailer to my way of thinking especially if it is edged with a solid wood. For lightweight and strength in an AS I have considered the same construction method as my cedar strip canoe with or without the fiberglass and wetted out with epoxy and then a few coats of varnish. It would be over kill but would give it a bit of the feeling of a yacht. The cedar strips are ¼ x ¾ inch thick and conform to curved shapes nicely. I have attached a picture and if the mountain scape doesn’t distract too much the canoe and paddle show some nice wood. The canoe is about 12 years old and is heading for the shop for a varnish update after 5 years of service in the sun. It is amazing the difference when you put a couple fresh coats of varnish. Maybe it is a bit like a polished verses an un polished AS Tony

[VIKING]

The veneers available today are really nice. I've been doing some cabinet work in quartered, figured Anigre, which has a quilted, irridescent quality that is really cool. It can be finished with a natural look to it or you can do crazy stuff like raspberry aniline dye, or charcoal stain, and the results are unbelievable.
For a less expensive mahogany-looking material there's Sapele, Lyptus, or brazilian cherry. If you can find real Honduras Mahogany it is "the bomb". All other Mahogs come after it in terms of having excellent looks, and excellent working qualities. I have saved some old mahogany counter tops from a remodel we did years ago, and some miscellaneous boards from here and there, and that, along with a bit of veneer could become the inside of my Safari. Here's a pic of honduran mahogany

[callie]

HOWDY from the LONE STAR STATE! All I can say is 'WOW'! Now did you say something about that beautiful canoe????

Just kidding.....great workmanship.....GOD BLESSED YOU!!!! Adios...Callie

[pauluptime]

Tony - Hmmm... the idea of a cedar lined (or even accented) interior is really interesting, and I totally get the canoe inspiration.

Viking - That Anigre is beautiful and mahogany veneers could make for a really luxurious interior. Imagine a state-room of deep wine-stained mahogany, leather and polished aluminum. Wow!

Let's face it, the consideration to gut/refloor a 70's or 80's AS opens up a full range of custom finish choices never before available due to new wood technologies, past limits of cost, mass-production, styles and so-forth.

Lately I've noticed some really interesting uses of bamboo and wonder if that might also make a favorable light/strong/aesthetic/price option to cedar. This weekend at a environmental show here in Toronto there were some home renovators featuring kitchen cabinetry and home furniture made using cardboard, honeycomb wafer bamboo panels and more. I kind of dig the idea of choosing more environmentally sustainable materials throughout any AS renovation, so perhaps bamboo's a good approach?

[Tony S]

I picked up 3 sheets of 1/4" plywood bird eye and pillowed maple (seven footers) at a discount building supply place that were I believe where left over from Marathon million dollar motor coaches built up by Eugene Oregon. If they had 50 sheets I would of bought them all.

I don't know much about bamboo and various looks available or the weight of it. I will say in the past I thought the look had a tone or repetition to its pattern that made it look like a printed oak they use in low end SOB's. The reason I mention it is you have to sometimes live with a thing for awhile to know if it going to work. I did a kitchen once in purple heart a wood that is purple naturally. It goes from bright to darker almost brown over time. Well, anyway, I used it along with white laminate. I liked it. Then one day as I was sitting at the table looking at it, it hit me like a ton of bricks, it looked like it could of been painted wood because of the it having a uniformity of the grain to the point of no grain pattern. Now I have redone the kitchen in quarter saw oak. I attached a few of pics again. Sorry for their quality. The third picture is the back of a mirror built in Sapele. The plywood (veneer) back was from the same discount place mentioned above at $12.50 a sheet, pre finished. I bought 20 odd sheets. As Viking said You can't go wrong with Honduras Mahogany! Tony

[VIKING]

I have to question the use of bamboo, based on it's proximity to the end user. One of the paramount things to consider when trying to be environmentaly considerate, is the location and means of delivery to the end user. Balanced against the longevity of the product and the cost to produce it again, something that is local to the end user is prefered. We have an abundance of hard and soft woods that are at least as suitable for cabinet construction as bamboo is. Vertical grain fir and rift white oak are a couple of local local woods that are under-rated for use by most manufacturers of cabinetry. Rift white oak is the stuff wine barrels and casks are made from. it has a pronounced straight grain of fairly uniform lines but it also runs into quartersawn grain on ocassion, which is also called flame oak, for it's wild looking ray patterns that run across the grain of the wood



To keep it light is a matter of using a thin, light substrate, and a softwood support frame to hold it together.

Airstream really had the cabinet construction down pretty well by the time my '64 was built. The bulk of the cabinets were made from 1/4" fir plywood and pine frames. The bottom of the upper cabinets was a pine frame with 1/4" plywood under it. There are no backs or tops in the uppers, and no backs or bottoms in the lowers. Small doors are 3/8" plywood and large doors are 5/8" plywood. The surfaces were all oak veneer, except for the face frames on the front of each cabinet, which were solid oak.


Vertical grain fir has all straight lines of grain. It's a softwood that is used for door and window construction due to its' stability in changing climates. We use it for cabinets ocassionally too, but it's a look you have to really like, or you could end up going INSANE! Something about all those straight lines, over, and over, and over....



Rich the Viking

Originally Posted by pauluptime

Lately I've noticed some really interesting uses of bamboo and wonder if that might also make a favorable light/strong/aesthetic/price option to cedar. This weekend at a environmental show here in Toronto there were some home renovators featuring kitchen cabinetry and home furniture made using cardboard, honeycomb wafer bamboo panels and more. I kind of dig the idea of choosing more environmentally sustainable materials throughout any AS renovation, so perhaps bamboo's a good approach?

[Lily&Me]

You do beautiful, beautiful work, Tony. My Danish grandpa, Dida, was a carpenter on Long Island, NY, and I am fortunate to own their oak dining room set----two pieces of which he made, a buffet and a sideboard. There is nothing like things you make with your own hands (or those of your ancestors), whatever they may be.

Good luck in your search for the perfect Airstream.

Maggie