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07-21-2016, 09:04 AM
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#81
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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I will just say it.
The press reports the accident was caused by sway, and I will say that the big box hanging off the back of the trailer was a major contributor to the accident.
Ultimately the owner/driver is responsible for driving the combination beyond (faster than) its safe limits.
There is no way that the driver did not know that the vehicle was squirmy the very first time he approached highway speeds.
And make no mistake, without one of the two available premium hitches available, with that giant pendulum weight on the trailer that combination was squirrelly from square one.
Gradiens super tenui glacie.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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07-21-2016, 10:47 AM
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#82
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
I will just say it.
The press reports the accident was caused by sway, and I will say that the big box hanging off the back of the trailer was a major contributor to the accident.
Ultimately the owner/driver is responsible for driving the combination beyond (faster than) its safe limits.
There is no way that the driver did not know that the vehicle was squirmy the very first time he approached highway speeds.
And make no mistake, without one of the two available premium hitches available, with that giant pendulum weight on the trailer that combination was squirrelly from square one.
Gradiens super tenui glacie.
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I don't know for certain - but I can't imagine even a VPP hitch would overcome something like that "shed" on the back of a trailer.
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07-21-2016, 10:55 AM
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#83
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF
-- snip -- Andrew, What do YOU recommend for modifications to a JGC to make it an exceptable and safe tow vehicle? I am asking because I tow with a 2011 JGC Overlander With 5.7 Hemi.
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AW - a thought - looks like the JGC may have 265/60R18 tires fitted. It appears that LT255/65R18 are similar in diameter. Would appreciate your thoughts and those of Andrew on the value of going to LT tires for the SUV towing application. Also, any thoughts on the stiffer side wall run flat tires. This is a bit of a hijack, but an important element of consideration to achieve stability. Appreciate your input. Pat
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07-21-2016, 11:06 AM
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#84
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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07-21-2016, 12:11 PM
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#85
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Ready-to-Travel
2012 30' International
Walkerton
, Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,168
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You can tow anything with anything and any kind of hitch and any kind of weight distribution. As long as everything is going well.
The more things that you have that make your rig unstable, the fewer things (outside influences) it will take to put you on your backside.
Me - I prefer to run with as stable a lash-up in as many ways as possible. Then there will be some forgiveness if I become momentarily inattentive, someone causes me to react too quickly or something else out of my control presents itself.
From all appearances, the rig pictured here needed everything always to go according to plan.
Pat
__________________
--------------------------------------
Somebody, please, point me to the road.
AIR 3987
TAC VA-2
WBCCI 4596
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07-21-2016, 12:29 PM
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#86
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Rollover in Quebec
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac
I don't know for certain - but I can't imagine even a VPP hitch would overcome something like that "shed" on the back of a trailer.
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Lol, there certainly are limits.
That box could have upwards of several hundred or even a thousand pounds or better in that box.
The box has a capacity of over 60 cubic feet. Filled even with clothes and linens it could contain 600 pounds easy enough.
Gradiens super tenui glacie.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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07-21-2016, 12:51 PM
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#87
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Plus when you square the increased distance rearward away from the center of gravity of the trailer, any such large mass takes on a new forcefullness . . .
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07-21-2016, 01:20 PM
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#88
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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[QUOTE=PKI;1824223]AW - a thought - looks like the JGC may have 265/60R18 tires fitted. It appears that LT255/65R18 are similar in diameter. Would appreciate your thoughts and those of Andrew on the value of going to LT tires for the SUV towing application. Also, any thoughts on the stiffer side wall run flat tires. This is a bit of a hijack, but an important element of consideration to achieve stability. Appreciate your input. Pat
Pat, I have 20 inch wheels and have Bridgestone Dueler H/L on my Jeep in size P265/50R20 106V. They were recommended to me by a close friend that has been in the commercial tire business for many years. I did not buy them from him so there was no ulterior motive for his recommendation. They are comfortable, well riding, long lasting tires. I have had them for just over two years. Unlike some here I do not pretend to be an engineer of any kind so can only base my opinion on actual use and seat of the pants feel. I like them and that is all that matters. (For the benefit of any one that wants to criticize my choice)
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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07-21-2016, 01:22 PM
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#89
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
There is an active thread on that topic:
-- snip -- And PLENTY of tire threads! -- snip --
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Thanks for the links. Generally the primary thread has lots of info on the success folks have had towing with the JGC and there is also some hitch info. There does not seem to be a lot of detailed information on how to improve the stability of the JGC. Hoping these questions can expand the discussion.
This incident certainly has more information that prior rollover incidents and that contributes to an understanding of the forces in play and the viable solutions necessary to control them.
Pat
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07-21-2016, 01:29 PM
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#90
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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-- snip -- P265/50R20 106V. -- snip --[/QUOTE]
AW - yes, the low profile approach. May turn out to be better in the long run.
Thanks - Pat
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07-21-2016, 06:16 PM
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#91
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Stay CazuaL
2018 25' Flying Cloud
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
First off, I don't disagree that the setup was poor and the box was a bad decision.
I am simply saying that we are completely grasping at straws as to what happened. Unless I missed it, the news report does not indicate ANY cause.
For all we know, it may have been an unavoidable situation caused by an outside force. Until the police report is made public, I won't be sure about anything.
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Told ya. Dealing with facts is not enough, not even with proof. I think everyone agrees that many factors could have been the cause. What was in the box? Was it full? Was it empty?
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07-21-2016, 06:36 PM
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#92
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Builder of Diesel Jeeps
2014 28' International
Sedona
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 226
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Any more in the weeds, and this post gets ticks.
I personally recommend, for safety sake, pull your AS with an International 4700 modified stake truck with a 32k GVWR, or if you're on the cheap, a F-550 crew. My attorney says I should, for safety's sake, wrap myself in foil and not breathe. He's the fiduciary.
As AW said, let the speculative entertainment continue.
__________________
14 Serenity 28'
15 Grand Cherokee EcoD
#5261
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07-21-2016, 06:54 PM
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#93
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Looks like the Komo carrier is pretty heavy.
(or is the weight spec the capacity?)
http://www.ecarriershelving.com/?category_id=31
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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07-21-2016, 07:07 PM
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#94
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn
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For whatever it's worth, none of the 3 pics on their website have the unit hanging off the back of a trailer - all are connected behind the rear axle of a self contained vehicle not hitched to anything else.
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07-21-2016, 07:08 PM
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#95
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3 Rivet Member
2008 34' Classic S/O
Arnprior
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 231
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and you wonder why?
__________________
Pete Crook
"Put it all behind you!"
S/OS#88
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07-21-2016, 07:09 PM
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#96
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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I think it has the swing out add on option or a ramp/carrier, mentioned somewhere when I looked at other models on that website.
But, I am speculating. I do not know since I've never seen one of these before.
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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07-21-2016, 07:17 PM
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#97
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white laker
and you wonder why?
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Nope. 😀
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07-22-2016, 04:26 AM
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#98
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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If the Komo box weighs any more than the AS-approved Fiamma bike rack at about 92 lbs. including bikes, it is not within the Airstream design specs.. Ditto for the approved location -- basically above the rear bumper, with the bikes just barely aft of the bumper.
End of discussion.
Period.
One can kick and scream about Airstream's strict limits . . . but . . .
Acceptance of limits is one of life's hardest lessons IMO, not only for spoiled brat children, but also for many adults.
"But I know better . . . "
"I Want it . . !!!"
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07-22-2016, 05:34 AM
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#99
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Papa smurf did the detective work....can we agree these photo's are of the same rig?
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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07-22-2016, 07:29 AM
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#100
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Rivet Master
2023 16' Basecamp
Currently Looking...
Chgo. N.W. Burb's
, Illinois
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 629
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Same trailer
My vote is :Same. Has matching Decal upper left on rear of trailer. Overall look's same.
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