Refill bottles ?

[brunoffrance]

Hi again ;
Is there some able to tell me how to refill the 2 LPG bottles , to do that with safety, how I know if it's well refilled, may be , how many gallons or liters I can refill , seeing my bottles in the picture.
I know and I've seen you can refill them at the gas stations in America, but that system does'nt exist in Europe... exept if you drive an LPG car and you do this operation in same time you refill your car....

Thank you by advance.

Bruno.

[Pick]

Those look like 30 pound cylinders, in which case they will hold about 7.1 US gallons of liquid propane. If they have new OPD valves they can only be filled up to the dip tube and will cut off the filling device. Last time I filled an empty tank, it only took about 6.5 gallons. I asked the local propane company if I could have a tank with a liquid dip tube, so I could fill my own cylinders at home, and they looked at me like I was a crazed madman! The local convenience store charges an astronomical $22.00 for a 20 pound refill, which amounts to $4.68 a gallon, while the Flying J truckstop on the interstate highway charges $1.40 US per gallon to fill any size tank.

[femuse]

Bruno:

We have a 1971 25', the bottles must be the same.
Your bottles look like 30 pounds. They should have marking on the collar (top).
It should read: WC 71.5 W 16.5: ( if it says 71.5 then it is a 30LBs)

Some numbers to start to confuse you:
Gallons (US) = 3.785 liters
Gallons of propane = 4.24 pounds
30 pounds (LBs)=7.075 gallons = 26.78 litres

From the web page of a propane dealer, info for 30LBs cylinders:

Cylinder volume 32.5 litres
Propane capacity 7.1gallons = 26.8 litres (about 80% of 32.5)
Water Capacity (WC) 71.5LBs = 32.6kg ::::: that's your WC 71.5 marked on bottle
Tare weight 25.4LBs = 11.5kg

If they have the new valves (triangular knob), I believe it SHOULD stop when full. We had the new valves installed AND: they sold us the wrong ones. Valves are different for aluminium cylinders than for steel. Be careful about that: now we have a problem of overfilling if we don't keep an eye on it.

If you have the old type: they may or may not have an "overfill valve" the "80% valve" (little screw on the side of the valve), when it's full it will spit out gas there, it's time to stop filling.
Your best bet I think is to weigh an empty bottle, and have it filled with 26.8 litres (if it is a 30LBs)

I am new to this forum story, but I think you must be able to click on something and if you need more info, write to me directly in French. We have a mountain of information about propane and cylinders. I will try to remember how to write in french.

Hope this will be useful. Good luck

Chantal.

[74Argosy24MH]

Your biggest problem may be thread sizes on the valves, trying to mate US threads with what is used in Europe for filling. What do the European caravans use for propane storage, any chance of adapting these to use on your AS?

John

[brunoffrance]

In Europe, no refilling system for the particular people; We change each time the bottles when empties. Only Gaz products refill industrially the bottles, we never get two times the same bottle.
About gas valves, I thinK the gas threads are the same in Europe and USA, only a question of size... I 've ordered the adjustment for that, to my LPG car specialist.

Thank you for all the informations, I have to check the famous valve, I think it's not an OPD one.

Bruno

[brunoffrance]

Now, I know how many liters I can refill in each bottle, thank you Chantal ( french name ?), so what is the good way to refill ?
I connect the lpg gun on the bottle, i open the bottle faucet and so I charge with the gun ????? is it the safety way or not ?
When empty, shut the faucet and disconnect the gun ?

Thank you


Bruno.

[Pick]

Bruno, if you are sure the tanks are empty, and the device or pump has an indicator of how many liters you have pumped into the bottle, then you should be ok. At most refill places they place the bottle on a scale and weigh it. The bottle stays on the scale during the filling process and stops when the proper weight is reached. At truckstop with no scale filling is complete when OPD valve shuts off flow of liquid into bottle. However if you DO NOT HAVE OPD valve, you would have to fill with proper amount of liters then stop. Some of the older valves have a small thumbvalve that when opened during the filling process will start to spit out liquid when the tank reaches the 80% level. Hope I did not confuse you and this helps!

Mike

[femuse]

Bruno:

You may have 2 problems:

1 - the valves are different in France. I stumbled unto a weird article
http://www.banik.org/pratique/LE%20GAZ.htm
about refilling bottle (a French boat in various countries). They say the valves are not the same. They talk too about refilling from one bottle to another.

2 - I read elswhere that : in Europe, what is sold as carburant for cars is not propane, but a mix of 50% propane & 50% butane.
or I quote: "GPL/C (c pour carburant) est composé de butane (C4 H10) à 50 % et de propane (C3 H8) également à 50 % , mais ces proportions peuvent varier selon les saisons, les pays et les sociétés qui les raffinent"

The difference between propane & butane is: you store a butane bottle indoor (propane can be used at a much lower temperature)
I read too that: a 26 litres bottle will hold 10,5 kg of propane

These 2 sites will be of interest to you:
http://www.cfbp.fr/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f.dichamp/gaz.htm

Answer to your question : yes I am French. I have been living in the Sates till 1978. We bought our 1st Airstream in 1992, the 2nd in 1995 and hope to get our 3rd one by the end of this week.

Chantal

[brunoffrance]

Hi Chantal;

it was one of my first thread in this forum and I wondered if I could refill the bottles with the same gaz I use in my truck: lpg or GPL as we call that in FRANCE.
The answer was yes.
About you, if we can refill with propane, or with butane, so we can refill with my "famous " GPL c ??????
I' ve asked the same question to my GPL specialist and the answer is yes too and he is making for me the adjustment to refill at the pump.

Do you agree with that ?

Thank you one more time .

Bruno From FRANCE

[femuse]

Bruno,

Agree: yes and no. Refilling your bottles is yes, but.......

I checked a bit more the following site, it should teach you more than you want to know on that subject:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f.dichamp/gaz.htm

They make it clear that GPL/C is about 50 % propane and 50 % butane (varies slightly by make, season,...).
It looks like most appliances can run on either gaz, but the point you have to pursue is : "Si vous devez utiliser alternativement les 2 gaz bien vérifier si les gicleurs des appareils sont compatibles.......il est INTERDIT d'utiliser du propane sur une installation butane, et vice-versa."

Your problem is not how to fill your bottles (you can do that easily), it is to make sure that you can operate your frigde, stove,.... This is a question for an appliance dealer.
And you should check at the end of their page: their link "Le gaz dans le camping car" et the email address where they will be able to answer your questions.


Good luck,

Chantal

[brunoffrance]

Hi Chantal /femuse;

I've verified on my gas bottle and the inscriptions are well you've said: WC: 71,5 & TW 16,5. other number buat I suppose they are to identify the owner and the gas proof control dates.
I've gotten too, today my adjustment so I'll wait the bottle really empty before trying refill it.

Thank you one more time.

Bruno.

[qqq]

BrunoFrance,

Will you refill with automobile lpg at petrol stations?
Did you find an adapter?

Hart

[brunoffrance]

hi Hart;

Yes, I'm going to refill at the station with the lpg I use for my truck;
As The A/S accept methane and propane, why not the mix of them with lpg ( in FRANCE, thet call that LPG ).
About the adapter, my lpg has manufactured one, with the US gaz screw at one end, and the the female french plug to the other end, for accept the gas gun and refill my bottle.
For the moment I can't take a picture of that adapter because I don't arrive to transfer photos, from my camera to my computer( ??? ).

bruno.

[brunoffrance]

Hi, again with this "old" thread;
Femuse was right in refilling capacity; I've refill , for the first time ( of my life ) one of the two gas bottle with , what we call in FRANCE, GPl in petrol station with my special plug.
I've refill 25 liters without problem , not try, for the first time to Femuse 's indications , to 26,8 liters; May be the next time to verify the security faucet when too much gas inside; step by step is OK for me, the next one 'l be to verify the properties of the new gas... now.

Bruno.

[frederic.c01]

bonjour Bruno
je vais faire un autre support en alu pour mettre des bouteilles propane de chez nous.
quand j'aurais la solution adoc je pourrais te donner les plans.
fred

[qqq]

Fred,

I sent you a Pm

Salut

Hart

[brunoffrance]

Hi Fred;
You can work on a new support for European Propan bottles but i prefer to keep the american ones that i refill as they do in USA.
The look is better (aluminium) than our bottles painted and they are your property, not for the European ones;
The cost for refilling is cheaper than changing each time bottles.
I refill with 25 liters of LPG at 0,33 cents €; That's all I pay.
Just Compare.

Bruno.