New Airstream-only park?

[kb0zke]

As some of you know, the Escapees Club has been sold to Harvest Host. Harvest Host is selling off the campgrounds that the Club owned. In every case, the listing says that "rates could be raised." Anyone interested in buying one and making it an Airstream-only park?


We've been to a couple of them since we are lifetime Escapees members. Turkey Creek (Branson, MO) is a nice, small park near all of the Branson entertainment sites, but it does sometimes flood, as it is right on the river. Of course, that means that you can walk from your site to the river to catch dinner.


Dream Catcher, the park in Deming, NM, is pretty much a parking lot, but the sites are large. Easy access to the Interstate. There aren't enough sites for a large Rally, but I think there are around 100 sites.


I'm not pushing anything here, nor do I have any financial interest in any of this. We visited some friends at their site in an Airsteam-only park a couple of years ago and were impressed by the idea.

[Peter417]

I don't know that an airstream only park can make it today. I hope so though.



I'm a permaculture designer and I would love to design a campground.

[NutmegsCamper]

I’m curious what the infatuation with an “Airstream only” campground is. We meet a lot of fine people at non-segregated campgrounds that all have a passion for camping. I’d have an interest in opening a small campground with huge isolated sites and top scale amenities, all of which would come at a premium.

[eubank]

Airstream only is a big hurdle for the financial well-being of the business. I'd suggest perhaps a discount setup: Stay at the regular rate; stay at a discounted rate if you come in with an Airstream; or stay at a discounted rate for Airstream Club membership. Whatever looks financially viable.

Deming is not too bad of a little town. Far prettier than the next town west, Lordsburg. The scenery is ok with the Florida Mountains as a backdrop. I've haven't ever looked at that RV park, though. It'll depend a lot on the age and condition of its infrastructure.

(A little story here. Long ago we considered an RV park in Taos. Right on the main drag, but existing buildings were questionable. Then we discovered not only that it was on a suspect septic system, but that the town was wanting to force connection to city utilities, especially sewer. For a HUGE amount of money. We fled.)

Lynn

[Genebuilder]

Nicest RV park around Deming is at Rockhound State Park. Scenic sites in the foothills of the Floridas. Great place to hike, wildflower, and rock.

Airstream Only? Puhlese… Elitist, insular, and anachronistic. For the wannabe one percenters.

I rather enjoy meeting people living in the real world.

[JeffKim]

Originally Posted by Genebuilder

Airstream Only? Puhlese… Elitist, insular, and anachronistic. For the wannabe one percenters.

Hey, that's us! (ha, ha)

As a thought experiment, owning an RV Park sounds like the opposite of what I would want. As I advance into my golden years taking care of my house is about all I want to handle. I can't imagine running a place with many more headaches. I hope to be on the road traveling. I suppose hiring the right people to run it might work, but that's another headache. It would have to be extremely profitable to make it worth my while or maybe if I loved the area and wanted to live out my days there sitting on my Airstream deck attachment muttering at people.

Not to discourage the OP if that is their dream.

[Bearstream01]

Originally Posted by NutmegsCamper

I’d have an interest in opening a small campground with huge isolated sites and top scale amenities, all of which would come at a premium.

Yes please!

[jfreeham]

We have been at the Top of Georgia Airstream Park for the past month. It is operated by the Georgia Unit of WBCCI. There are other Unit/Club operated Airstream Parks throughout the country (Florida, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Minnesota, to name five), so an Airstream Park is not a new idea. Maybe such a venture is better entered by a club, or clubs, who would be able to benefit from the experiences of the already established campgrounds?

[janicemd]

Originally Posted by Genebuilder

Airstream Only? Puhlese… Elitist, insular, and anachronistic. For the wannabe one percenters.

Wow, that' pretty harsh not to mention offensive to everyone who enjoys the Airstream-only parks. We like both experiences, nice to meet new people everywhere you go but it's also nice to run into old friends at the Airstream Parks. People that you met on a caravan or at a rally or whatever...those other "Airstream only" things.

[JohnTF]

I am not familiar " Escapees Club " ?

I joined this , and other Airstream groups back in the 90s , bought my 1st used Airstream from an add in one of the forums groups [ do not remember which one for sure ] .
The add was for my 85 in a Airstream Park in South Jersey , I was living in MN and had visited the Airstream Park in MN before having a AS .
At the time - 90s , it looked like there were about 36 Airstream Parks around the country .
I think some of the points of an Airstream only - were because of the " Club " gave some local legal issues / advantages ?
And seemed like cheaper than many other travel trailer parks ?
At least some of them - like here in MN - you could not stay yr. round [ some of that may be the cold winters ? ]
Haven't looked into AS Parks for a long time , so do not know how they are doing ?
Point being --- they are already out there --- so maybe adding to , what ever they are / another franchise ?

[Rick n Mary]

Originally Posted by NutmegsCamper

I’m curious what the infatuation with an “Airstream only” campground is. We meet a lot of fine people at non-segregated campgrounds that all have a passion for camping. I’d have an interest in opening a small campground with huge isolated sites and top scale amenities, all of which would come at a premium.

I believe the idea of only Airstream, is because SOB have been categorized “as too old”…. 5-9+ years old.
I will jump to conclusions and say, ALL Airstreams, whether 1 year old or 80 years are in the best shape! they will ever be (sarcasm?)
SOB’s have been turned away, because the camp owner is afraid the will get stuck with a piece of garbage they will be responsible to discard.

To explain my sarcastic comment from above, has ANYONE???? seen an Airstream so bad off that the owner abandoned it? That is without wanting to sell it?
I believe, this is the reasoning behind AS only camp grounds. Rick

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Rick n Mary

I believe the idea of only Airstream, is because SOB have been categorized “as too old”…. 5-9+ years old.
I will jump to conclusions and say, ALL Airstreams, whether 1 year old or 80 years are in the best shape! they will ever be (sarcasm?)
SOB’s have been turned away, because the camp owner is afraid the will get stuck with a piece of garbage they will be responsible to discard.

To explain my sarcastic comment from above, has ANYONE???? seen an Airstream so bad off that the owner abandoned it? That is without wanting to sell it?
I believe, this is the reasoning behind AS only camp grounds. Rick

My wife and I were going to the Minnesota Airstream Park last Spring. But we had some family things come up and had to cancel. It’s on 40 acres, they have a 9 hole golf course, walking trails, very large sites, gazebos on each site, outdoor pool, etc. and the rates are very reasonable. We plan on retrying this year. Also it appears one can buy sites there for your personal use and keep your camper on site. A number of them are for sale. It’s only about 2.5 hours from our house.

And yes, campgrounds do get stuck with campers. I can’t remember which campground it was, but there was a field by the campground with numerous campers of various sizes sitting in it. It costs a considerable amount to money to get rid of an old camper.

As to getting an AS only campground going, one would have to get something that is kind of unique like the Minnesota Airstream Park. And then maybe think about developing the sites and selling them. Something close to a large Metro area or a high tourist area might be ideal. That way there would be enough demand.

[LilBird]

We’ve stayed at six Airstream parks and enjoyed all of them. The people were warm and welcoming, helpful, and great fun. We also enjoy state and county parks, COE parks, and privately owned parks…. I’d love for another Airstream park to open, but I’m afraid it’s a ton of work and fraught with headaches. If someone else opened one, though, we’d surely want to visit!

[trailerKat]

After a little research I can confirm that the "new" Escapees club, now mostly owned by Harvest Hosts is indeed selling the corporate-owned parks. I also found an ad for park franchises if you already own a park and want to rebrand it as "Escapees.". As Escapees members since 2014 we have stayed at many of the parks, both the corporate and Co-op. The Co-op parks are well cared for and are generally nicer than the corporate parks, some of which are pretty run down. If you are traveling across the south part of the country there are many along the I-10 route that are handy stopovers for a night or two. Many have boon dock sites/rates, our favorite travel style. There is one of each type in Florida where we spent last winter. We stayed at both of those several times as we cis-crossed the state visiting friends and going to rallies. We use Escapees Mail Service for long duration trips and that membership gives us "another tool in the toolbox" for low cost campsites.


We have stayed at several Airstream only or mostly Airstream parks: New Jersey, Top of Georgia, Virginia Highland Haven, Cumberland Plateau [TN], Paradise Park [FL]. These are a mixed bag. Two of them, NJ and GA, had large "storage" lots full of old trailers rotting away. Sad to see because there are plenty of folks out there willing to give trailers new life. Paradise Park [FL] had to allow motor homes as well as Airstreams [complicated story], was built when trailers were smaller and has very tightly spaced lots.



A park near us in Michigan used to be Airstream only, still is majority Airstreams but expanded and opened up to other brands to stay financially viable. It is a nice park on a lake near Traverse City where the SE Michigan Club holds an annual rally there, upcoming June 5-9 2025 [shameless rally plug on my part.]


Who knows what the future holds?
Peaceful holidays and stay safe.

[rodsterinfl]

I can attest to how nice it is to visit an Airstream Park. I have been to Top of Georgia several times and stayed a week or longer more than once. The people are warm and inviting as in most parks but what makes it special is that you are surrounded by a wealth of knowledge as well with owners with many years experience with Airstreams. My trailer purposely acts up for me just so I can reach out for help it seems when I am there! One of my last visits I was able to help someone work on their trailer. Experience is golden!

P.S. I took my parents with me to Top of Georgia during the hurricane warnings this last summer '24. While there I took them to Walmart in Cleveland. Any of you familiar with the drive from the park to Walmart - it is a treat in itself! You turn left off an asphalt road onto a gravel single lane drive across country through cow pastures and listen to "what are you doing, where are we going" as you drive! Then you pass by a Cabbage Patch Dolls place- LOL, all a blast from the past.

[KCurtis]

One of the attractions at staying at an Airstream only park is being about to see the sky and sun/moon while they are parked next to you. I have had a few 40+ foot Class A's park next to me and the sky/sun/moon all disappear. One time one parked next to us and I chatted with him and learned they would be there for the next 2 weeks. We cut a few days off our stay to get away from that situation.

[CB2]

Thank you for writing to us today.



Harvest Hosts only purchased the RV Club (the membership, events, and community business) and did not acquire the Escapees RV Parks and Mail Forwarding Services businesses in our transaction. These remain under the current ownership of the Carr family. Please send your question to email, mailservice@escapeesmailservice.com.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by Genebuilder

..
Airstream Only? Puhlese… Elitist, insular, and anachronistic. For the wannabe one percenters.

I rather enjoy meeting people living in the real world.

I tend in this direction. Although, it is never as black and white as you might think. I have stayed at many RV parks where the owners and support staff have been wonderful. Don't think that an Airstream only park has some kind of monopoly on this. I generally move away from clubs of any sort because they do tend to be exclusionary. I have stayed at parks that have an age requirement and almost laugh out loud when they let me in. My trailer is 18 years old but is in good repair and clean (most of the time). I understand that they don't want broken down units but they are phony by hiding behind an age limit. We have attended the Albuquerque balloon festival twice. When put on by the 4 Corners unit, they welcomed everyone in as long as you had an Airstream. The big unit took over and now you can't get in unless you are a member. So I would add "exclusionary" to Genebuilder's list. And as W.C. Fields once said, "I don't want any part of a club that would have me as a member." Apologies to W.C. because I think I bungled up his quote a bit.

[jcanavera]

The killer on owning a park is the upkeep, insurance, the cost of a loan if you need it and taxes. About 25 years ago my boss and I were on the verge on losing our jobs and we looked into the KOA system. I also talked to a new owner of a KOA campground down at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri where I stayed at who bought his campground a few years earlier.

Bottom line he talked about the term "you live like a pauper and retire as a king". He noted that his 120 site seasonal campground was too big for him to maintain with his wife and daughter, but too small to generate enough income on to pay for the extra help necessary. KOA in talking to us did tell us the value of a campground would only be realized upon a sale, not on what you clear annually. The campground at Lake of the Ozarks did have a pool there and the cost of maintaining the pool, maintenance to the campground and facilities and paying on the loan (along with the fees charged to carry the KOA brand), had him much closer to the edge that he imagined. He also ended up having to replace the roof of the main building and fix the pool which he didn't know was leaking. (He inspected the pool off season when it was drawn down and the roof was inspected while it was covered in snow). He ended up having to take a seasonal job at the local school district to just stay afloat.

Shortly thereafter he put the place up for sale but couldn't find a buyer. Luckily for him things were changing, and what saved him was the concept of having retired campground hosts who were willing to work in exchange for free camping and hookups. From that he was able to maintain and run and run the campground with no extra help. I don't know if he quit his seasonal job during the time when the campground was closed, but he also disfranchised himself from KOA which helped greatly. With that he took the campground off the market and as best I know still owns it today.

With anything I learned when my boss and I looked at purchasing was the first thing you have to look at is the number of camper nights you get income from. That's going back to find out what the income was from the booked nights of use of the sites and a count of the sites used each day. That's the standard that KOA uses in comparing campgrounds vs income. Secondly once you find that income, what you have to deduct as expenses and overhead I know we were looking at campgrounds that to get enough income, required a purchase price of $700,000 to $1,000.000 dollars. Those generated enough income to pay the expenses and give you up to about $40-50 thousand dollars a year profit. Not enough for 2 guys to live well on considering we still needed housing for each of us. Seasonal campgrounds are fairly marginal dependent upon climate. I remember going up to Door County to some high priced campgrounds but once I look at their dates they had as their high season, and understanding as it got colder the occupancy went down, I quickly understood that their rates were very much in line as to what they needed to get a modest if not minimal income. Many campgrounds especially in the northern states are really only busy between June and September. On either side of those months occupancy is minimal.

The guy at Lake of the Ozarks was a camper and initially thought it be a dream ownership, but he truly didn't understand what he was getting into. Keep in mind in many cases some owners have two sets of books regarding their occupancies. One to enhance the income they say the campground makes, and another which may be a lot more sobering. And finally realize with soaring assessments of property values in the area, your annual real estate tax may eventually be a nightmare based on the selling prices of the property around you. Especially frustrating to were the mess that adults would create in the restroom and pool facility. If you remember the Caddyshack movie and the floating BabyRuth candy bar? That seemed to be an event that occurred time to time from the unsupervised kids left to their own means to have fun.

Jack

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

The killer on owning a park is the upkeep, insurance, the cost of a loan if you need it and taxes. About 25 years ago my boss and I were on the verge on losing our jobs and we looked into the KOA system. I also talked to a new owner of a KOA campground down at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri where I stayed at who bought his campground a few years earlier.

Bottom line he talked about the term "you live like a pauper and retire as a king". He noted that his 120 site seasonal campground was too big for him to maintain with his wife and daughter, but too small to generate enough income on to pay for the extra help necessary. KOA in talking to us did tell us the value of a campground would only be realized upon a sale, not on what you clear annually. The campground at Lake of the Ozarks did have a pool there and the cost of maintaining the pool, maintenance to the campground and facilities and paying on the loan (along with the fees charged to carry the KOA brand), had him much closer to the edge that he imagined. He also ended up having to replace the roof of the main building and fix the pool which he didn't know was leaking. (He inspected the pool off season when it was drawn down and the roof was inspected while it was covered in snow). He ended up having to take a seasonal job at the local school district to just stay afloat.

Shortly thereafter he put the place up for sale but couldn't find a buyer. Luckily for him things were changing, and what saved him was the concept of having retired campground hosts who were willing to work in exchange for free camping and hookups. From that he was able to maintain and run and run the campground with no extra help. I don't know if he quit his seasonal job during the time when the campground was closed, but he also disfranchised himself from KOA which helped greatly. With that he took the campground off the market and as best I know still owns it today.

With anything I learned when my boss and I looked at purchasing was the first thing you have to look at is the number of camper nights you get income from. That's going back to find out what the income was from the booked nights of use of the sites and a count of the sites used each day. That's the standard that KOA uses in comparing campgrounds vs income. Secondly once you find that income, what you have to deduct as expenses and overhead I know we were looking at campgrounds that to get enough income, required a purchase price of $700,000 to $1,000.000 dollars. Those generated enough income to pay the expenses and give you up to about $40-50 thousand dollars a year profit. Not enough for 2 guys to live well on considering we still needed housing for each of us. Seasonal campgrounds are fairly marginal dependent upon climate. I remember going up to Door County to some high priced campgrounds but once I look at their dates they had as their high season, and understanding as it got colder the occupancy went down, I quickly understood that their rates were very much in line as to what they needed to get a modest if not minimal income. Many campgrounds especially in the northern states are really only busy between June and September. On either side of those months occupancy is minimal.

The guy at Lake of the Ozarks was a camper and initially thought it be a dream ownership, but he truly didn't understand what he was getting into. Keep in mind in many cases some owners have two sets of books regarding their occupancies. One to enhance the income they say the campground makes, and another which may be a lot more sobering. And finally realize with soaring assessments of property values in the area, your annual real estate tax may eventually be a nightmare based on the selling prices of the property around you. Especially frustrating to were the mess that adults would create in the restroom and pool facility. If you remember the Caddyshack movie and the floating BabyRuth candy bar? That seemed to be an event that occurred time to time from the unsupervised kids left to their own means to have fun.

Jack

1. It is amazing how many people really don't run the numbers. From an appraisers standpoint if someone pays $1,000,000 for a campground they probably should make NOI of $100,000 (10% would probably a reasonable capitalization rate). And that NOI does not include paying yourself a wage (salaries) if you are part of the labor force. And the NOI doesn't include paying for a mortgage. That would come out of that $100,000.

2. Many campgrounds now rent out to people that keep their units there all year round. It helps with cash flow and takes less labor.

3. The Airstream campground in Minnesota is almost like a land condominium. Most sites are bought (about $35,000 to $40,000), and they pay their own taxes, etc. Then when people aren't there, they rent them out for usage to offset the cost of ownership.