Need Opinions on what I should do

[SARGE/AF]

In June 2008 I took a 1976 Soveirgn 31 footer to the factory to have it inspected, I had just bought it and needed a few repairs done, because it was in decent shape, I was willing to invest the money to have a working road ready Antique trailer that was almost all original. I made sure everything was secure for the almost 600 mile trip and traveled to the AS Factory in Ohio, in the trip through KY experienced some storms and cross winds and the trailer handled without a flaw. Next morn it was taken in and inspected thoughly including the awning which had to be opened, after we talked about the things that needed to be repaired that I knew about, then about the stuff they discovered, in addition to some updates that should be made, the whole idea was to make the camper usable and head off any near future trips by correcting anything serious/major that could go wrong and would stop us from using it, then work on some less important updates (if money allowed). I knew about the winter discount, we talked about it being there, to get this discount the trailer had to be available to be worked on at their leasure, In addition I was not going to have the money to pay for the repairs until May 2009, with me living almost 600 miles away this meant that the trailer would have to stay on the premises to be available. Now I knew that in doing so that there was a certain amount of liability, but with the condition of the camper we could not use it, so it was decided to leave it to be worked on as they needed, then I left for home.
In early 2009 there was a storm with high winds in which the awning was pulled open and laid over the trailer, the TV antenna was also damaged. I was emailed a work order and pictures about the damage to the awning & TV antenna and told about a dent in the aluminum behind where the bars on the awning was and that is all there was in damage. Pictures and work order was turned into my insurance company and they paid for the repairs. My Insurance questioned about the awning was not secured.
I asked if there was any other damage was told that it was all the damage done that was done, so I said to go ahead with the repairs that we had originally agreed upon;
Water Lines replaced, Fridge replaced, Water Heater replaced, repair short in fuse box, repair frame and bumper box that was rusted out, check bearings & brakes, was the important stuff to make the camper usable.
The pickup date for this was May 23 2009, I had left early in the morning and arrived mid morning. We discussed everything and then I went out to look at it and make sure there was no other problems, in which I discoverd a propane leak, went and told them then went back out to the trailer, while waiting for them to come get it the mech & I looked the trailer over and talked about the repairs that had been done and discovered that on the road side the aluminmum from half way up to the top and all windows had deep scratches in it, then discovered the curb side also had scratches in the aluminmum and windows from the storm where it laid the awning up and over the trailer. They took it back inside and repaired the regulator while I was talking with them inside about the damage. I had to pay for the work that had been done, which would not have been done if I knew about all the damage to the trailer. My insurance said get an estimate of all damage and I did so.
My Insurance notified, claims adjuster done,
AS Claims dept notified.
What I would like to know is what your opinions are about this situation?
Can awning come open when rolled up and locked?
How much wind would it take to rip an awning loose when both locks secured?

Sarge

[willyd]

I believe that I would have an attorney review the matter, then act accordingly.

[Inland RV Center, In]

What brand awning?

It's vertually impossible for an awning to come loose, "IF" it's properly locked in the retracted position, at least any that I am familiar with.

I suspect, the awning was not properly locked, and a high wind got to it.

Check with the weather bureau to see when there may have been a high wind in the area.

I know for a fact, that a Zip Dee will open in a high wind, "if not locked,"
but that wind will have to be at least 60 mph.

Andy

[overlander64]

Greetings Sarge!

I believe that the particular make of the awning and it method of securing the arms may have some impact. My A & E Travel Awn 5000 began to open while going down I-90 one day (the only reason that it didn't fully open and wrap over the trailer was that I had begun using bracket latches that were not awning specific); and the last straw was when it blew open while at the International Rally in Sioux Falls, SD -- it blew open with such force that the spring snapped but the arms didn't break loose. My A & E awning found its way to a dumpster prior to departing Sioux Falls. I now have a Zip Dee awning and feel more confident in its combinations of awning arm latches and the cover latches along the length of the awning.

Kevin

P.S.: I wonder if that was part of the same storm that hit our area (I am Southwest of Jackson Center). Over a three county area, we had huge 100 year-old+ healthy oak trees uprooted and toppled as well as many other varieties. In areas where that storm passed, there were reports of similar damage to the skin and windows of travel trailers. I was fortunate in that we were on the far South edge of the storm and only had moderately heavy winds and heavy rain. The storm that passed through Southern Illinois on May 8, 2009 is chronicled on the site in this link.

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

What brand awning?

It's vertually impossible for an awning to come loose, "IF" it's properly locked in the retracted position, at least any that I am familiar with.

I suspect, the awning was not properly locked, and a high wind got to it.

Check with the weather bureau to see when there may have been a high wind in the area.

I know for a fact, that a Zip Dee will open in a high wind, "if not locked,"
but that wind will have to be at least 60 mph.

Andy

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Andy it was a Zip Dee Awning 20 ft, the kind that has the scew down latch on each end.
With awning rollee up inside alum rap, both latches secured how much wind would it take to take it loose? or
If the wind was strong enough to take it loose would it not caused other damage? such as broke windows, AC cover, etc?

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

[quote=overlander64;712725]Greetings Sarge!

>>I believe that the particular make of the awning and it method of securing the arms may have some impact.
Ans- Zip Dee 20 footer, has the screw down latch on each end that screws into a cup.
>>P.S.: I wonder if that was part of the same storm that hit our area (I am Southwest of Jackson Center). Over a three county area, we had huge 100 year-old+ healthy oak trees uprooted and toppled as well as many other varieties. In areas where that storm passed, there were reports of similar damage to the skin and windows of travel trailers. I was fortunate in that we were on the far South edge of the storm and only had moderately heavy winds and heavy rain. The storm that passed through Southern Illinois on May 8, 2009 is chronicled on the site.
Ans- This storm occured in Jackson Center around Jan- March 09

Sarge

[azflycaster]

Sorry to hear about the damage to the trailer.

The screw down latches on the awning heads will keep the roller from moving, but a strong wind can catch the fabric and unwind it from the roller. The roller has to be locked with the locks on the roller (old style) or secured with a travel latch (new style) to prevent this from happening.

I saw an Argosy at the 4CU restoration rally that had the awning unwind going down the road. It separated from the trailer after it cause some nasty dents in the back and side of the trailer.

Once the wind catches the fabric, it acts like a sail. It then pulls more fabric from the roller and acts like a bigger sail. Eventually it becomes a giant sail.

[SARGE/AF]

UPDATE:
This issue has caused a big wig from Thor to come review it, been sent to Thor industries for consideration. Hopefully they use common sense to settle this issue. I gave them pics of what it looked like when I bought it, pics sent to me of the damage, my pics of the damage that would turn out, along with a proposel to settle without court proceedings. I am only asking for what is right, nothing extra.
1) they fix this one at a cost of 25,000 plus no cost to me
2) pay me the money I have invested 16,000 +
3) they buy a replacement of my choice, transfer all new stuff from this trailer to replacement at their cost.
4) sell me a brand new 34 with slide at factory cost.

Lets see what happens.
Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

UpDate;
Thor is taking the stance that this damage was caused by the wind storm which produced winds 60-70 mph and is an act of God and that they are not responsible.
Problem here is not the wind it is the fact that they left the awning unlatched and thus when the wind came up it caused the damage and that was because the awning was unlatched in the rolled up position.
So now I have to figure out how to explain it too them so this matter can be resolved without court action.

[Kevin245]

It may be time to let your attorney do the talking. Do you have confirmation that they left the awning un-latched, or indicated responsibility?

I had to sue a major retailer several years ago when a new fridge (just repaired by their own service man) puked water all over the house when we were out of town for three days. The new tank they installed split and flooded everything.

They claimed that it was an improper installation. They changed their story when my attorney showed them the video I recorded of their service guy saying it was because of the defective part they installed.

You'll need to have information to support your claim and be willing to pay some attorney fees up front. Foe me it took 18 months and $5K but everyting was repaid in the end.

Wish you the best,

Kevin

[SARGE/AF]

Q: It may be time to let your attorney do the talking.
A:Given the distance from me to the factory, and I have to find an attorney in that area, my local attorney encouraged me to try and solve the issue first because it would look more favorable in court. So where we are is; 1) I made contact with AS to let them know of the problem, 2) first person responce to send it up the chain of command, 3) up chain of command notified by me with statement and a suggestion of resolution, 4) 1st response from upper chain, 5) now it is my turn to return my response to their responce, 6) wait for their response, now it is from here that will determine whether a resolution takes place or court action ensues.

Q: Do you have confirmation that they left the awning un-latched, or indicated responsibility?
A: pictures of it dated the day of discovery and directly after the storm.

Q) I had to sue a major retailer several years ago when a new fridge (just repaired by their own service man) puked water all over the house when we were out of town for three days. The new tank they installed split and flooded everything. They claimed that it was an improper installation. They changed their story when my attorney showed them the video I recorded of their service guy saying it was because of the defective part they installed.
A: I have hope that it will not go this far, but in todays world you never know.

Q: You'll need to have information to support your claim and be willing to pay some attorney fees up front. Foe me it took 18 months and $5K but everyting was repaid in the end.
A: I have all of that and it has been supplied to Thor/AS, so now we wait and see.

Sarge

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

Q: It may be time to let your attorney do the talking.
A:Given the distance from me to the factory, and I have to find an attorney in that area, my local attorney encouraged me to try and solve the issue first because it would look more favorable in court. So where we are is; 1) I made contact with AS to let them know of the problem, 2) first person responce to send it up the chain of command, 3) up chain of command notified by me with statement and a suggestion of resolution, 4) 1st response from upper chain, 5) now it is my turn to return my response to their responce, 6) wait for their response, now it is from here that will determine whether a resolution takes place or court action ensues.

Q: Do you have confirmation that they left the awning un-latched, or indicated responsibility?
A: pictures of it dated the day of discovery and directly after the storm.

Q) I had to sue a major retailer several years ago when a new fridge (just repaired by their own service man) puked water all over the house when we were out of town for three days. The new tank they installed split and flooded everything. They claimed that it was an improper installation. They changed their story when my attorney showed them the video I recorded of their service guy saying it was because of the defective part they installed.
A: I have hope that it will not go this far, but in todays world you never know.

Q: You'll need to have information to support your claim and be willing to pay some attorney fees up front. Foe me it took 18 months and $5K but everyting was repaid in the end.
A: I have all of that and it has been supplied to Thor/AS, so now we wait and see.

Sarge

Hey Sarge,

It was 8 months after the event took place before I contacted an attorney. I sent company X and their underwriter several certified letters along with copies of records, receipts and photographs. They were unresponsive. In the final letter I set a deadline for contacting me and let them know that my next action would be to seek legal representation. When they didn't reply I proceeded as written.

The ace in the hole for me was that I video taped the service guy's post disaster visit. In the video recording he acknowleded that it was a manufacturing defect. When my attorney finally showed them the video they quitely settled the claim.

Finding a local attorney may be a bit of a challenge, but I don't see any reason why it could not be done. My experience is that attorneys come in all types. I wanted someone with a bit of tenacity, who wasn't abrasive as heck, but did not mind making the nescessary waves to get things moving.

I don't envy you and the path you may have to take. Hopefully things can be worked out without going through all the extra expense and effort. But then again I believe many companies stall in the hopes that some of the potential claimants will go away quitely.

Regards,

Kevin

[ts8501]

Sorry if I am missing the obvious, but why is your insurance company not taking care of this? If they feel they can reclaim from AS, they would do the work, not you.

[Gene]

Sarge,

Your local attorney should be able to find an Ohio attorney. The closest big cities are Dayton and Toledo and each should have a large selection of lawyers. Lawyers in the counties around JC may have ties to Airstream, so I would avoid them. Martindale Hubbell is the book most check to find an attorney. If your lawyer can't do it, go to the library and many have the M-H books or check online where some of the information is available. Check: Lawyers Find A Lawyer, Law Firm, Attorney & Legal Services: martindale

Your insurance company may or may not cover wind damage depending on the policy. It sounds like you got nowhere with them, but maybe they are wrong depending on what the policy says and how Ohio interprets it. Besides trailer insurance, Homeowners used to cover a lot of things, but not so much anymore. There are also Umbrella policies. Airstream surely has a great deal of insurance, but they will tell you they are not responsible for anything left on their property and the wind damage was an act of God. If there's no insurance coverage, the law of bailments comes into play and doesn't help you much when you have free parking.

So, I would have an Ohio lawyer handle it and that person can tell you your options according to Ohio law.

Gene

[SARGE/AF]

In the final letter I set a deadline for contacting me and let them know that my next action would be to seek legal representation. When they didn't reply I proceeded as written.
A) In my responce to their letter I plan on putting the same thing in it about a final date, Atty said it would be good to say that I would like to try and settle this without and to avoid costly atty & court fees that they could be responsible for.

The ace in the hole for me was that I video taped the service guy's post disaster visit. In the video recording he acknowleded that it was a manufacturing defect. When my attorney finally showed them the video they quitely settled the claim.
A) I have pictures that AS took taken by them when they discovered the damage and it shows the latch unlocked.

Finding a local attorney may be a bit of a challenge, but I don't see any reason why it could not be done. My experience is that attorneys come in all types. I wanted someone with a bit of tenacity, who wasn't abrasive as heck, but did not mind making the nescessary waves to get things moving.
A) yes that is the kind I will have to look for, it will be hard because many of them are going to have ties to AS/Thor/Union.

I don't envy you and the path you may have to take. Hopefully things can be worked out without going through all the extra expense and effort. But then again I believe many companies stall in the hopes that some of the potential claimants will go away quitely.
Regards, Kevin[/quote]

Thanks Kevin

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by ts8501

Sorry if I am missing the obvious, but why is your insurance company not taking care of this? If they feel they can reclaim from AS, they would do the work, not you.

My insurance is partially involved because they paid for the awning & TV antenna to be replaced. Then I went to pick it up after the repairs was done that the trailer was there for and this is when I discovered the additional damage that I was not told of, I paid and picked up the trailer and got it back home then my insurance came and looked at it, they said with the amount of damage and the cost of repair is twice that of the value of the trailer and therefore they would total it. Problem is the amount they would pay for the trailer I would loose all the money I just paid for the repairs that is above what I owe. See this trailer was in such good condition I had planed on restoration of it which is the reason for the cost of the repairs that I had done.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Sarge,

Your local attorney should be able to find an Ohio attorney. The closest big cities are Dayton and Toledo and each should have a large selection of lawyers. Lawyers in the counties around JC may have ties to Airstream, so I would avoid them. Martindale Hubbell is the book most check to find an attorney. If your lawyer can't do it, go to the library and many have the M-H books or check online where some of the information is available. Check: Lawyers Find A Lawyer, Law Firm, Attorney & Legal Services: martindale

Your insurance company may or may not cover wind damage depending on the policy. It sounds like you got nowhere with them, but maybe they are wrong depending on what the policy says and how Ohio interprets it. Besides trailer insurance, Homeowners used to cover a lot of things, but not so much anymore. There are also Umbrella policies. Airstream surely has a great deal of insurance, but they will tell you they are not responsible for anything left on their property and the wind damage was an act of God. If there's no insurance coverage, the law of bailments comes into play and doesn't help you much when you have free parking.
So, I would have an Ohio lawyer handle it and that person can tell you your options according to Ohio law.
Gene

Thanks that gives me an area for which to look for an atty which is my biggest fear because of the ties to AS/Thor/Union that I may not be able to find one that will properly represent me or force me to represent myself.
My insurance does cover for all damage to the trailer no matter the cause because of the type of insurance that I took out, problem is that AS did not tell me about the additional damage and I had work done which included a new fridge, water heater, toilet, frame repair, plus the awning and TV antenna which is money that would be lost above what the insurance company will pay if they total it and they did say it is considered total because the cost of repairs is twice the value of the trailer. Which leads to the other problem is that when someone has their trailer updated there is no data base to go by to show what the value of trailer would be after all the work is done.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Ok here we go, gave the dead line for a response and got none.
Have done a research of attorneys in the state of Ohio, there are only 7980 to choose from, so here is my question
Can anyone who lives near Jackson Center and has an attorney they use that they know and trust, especially if that attorney has taken on AS before and ask that attorney if he would take on a Damage case against Airstream/Thor and let me know???

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by ts8501

Sorry if I am missing the obvious, but why is your insurance company not taking care of this? If they feel they can reclaim from AS, they would do the work, not you.

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In one response I gave I said that my insurance company was already partially involved to the point where they paid for the awning & TV. After my response to you my insurance company was contacted about the rest of the issues, upon evaluation the insurance said that with the amount of damage and the cost of repair compaired to value of trailer of 7500.00 they would total the trailer and pay me $7500.00, I have 7500.00 in appliances and updates in the trailer. So I loose 7500.00 dollars or I have the money for the repairs and nothing for the trailer.
So this means that either AS is going to have to come to a resolution with me or we go to court.

Sarge

[tallytwo1994]

This is really unfortunate. Airstream’s employees should have known that going forward with the repairs would put everyone in a bad situation.

I once needed to find an attorney for a relative to proceed against a publicly funded clinic. I checked the court records for prior suits against them, and reviewed the cases until I found an obvious winner. Most had been settled before much was filed but a few proceeded through discovery so I was able to gage the skill and tenacity of the attorney. This is also a pretty accurate way to make sure the attorney has no conflict too.

If the county court system has their records online you may be able to do some research from home. I did my initial search to create a list of cases before going down to the courthouse and pulling the files.

Carol