Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-24-2006, 06:25 PM   #1
Mom scared by aluminum
 
dmaiden's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 167
Getting Legal

So the day before Thanksgiving I get a letter from the City. I am in violation of Code blah blahde blah and I need to get my Airstream down off Jacks, put the tires on and get it licensed or I get fined and possible criminally prosecuted (next Law and Order: Death by Airstream Doink Doink).

Anyway, as the front half was disconnected for my floor project, I hurredly put in the front floor and hold it together with some wood screws. I go to the Black Friday Harbor Freight Sale and buy a light kit for $18 and proceed to spend the rest of the day trying to figure out why I have tail lights, but no turn signals or brake lights.

My ex-electrician brother comes over after about four hours of this and informs me the problem is not in the trailer, but the wiring harness of my fairly new Silverado.

Doh!

I say to heck with it, throw my old rotted tires on and drive it down to the AZ licensing place. They are very nice, especially when all they do is measure it and check the VIN. They didn't even look at the lights. Just goes to show don't worry about the things you worry about because those are never the things that will get you.

Of course, the VIN was one number off from the title, so that caused a minor stir, but I am NOW LEGAL and as long as I don't put it up on blocks to work on it I can assume the City can't touch me.

Sorry neighbors, I'm working on it as fast as I can. Hang in there, it will be a thing of beauty!
__________________
Dave and Joanne
1963 Flying Cloud
2005 Silverado 4x4 3/4 Ton
dmaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2006, 07:34 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Hey Dave -- I deal with covenants but fortunately the owners association is only 4 households. I communicate and don't have a trailer in my drive more than a long weekend. That lets me occasionally keep it there a week or more in the middle of a major project. Neighbors know it will always go back to the storage facility. Your situation sounds rockier to say the least.

Zoning issues have been common fodder for threads here:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ited-6150.html

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ions-2076.html

http://www.airforums.com/forum...not-15717.html

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ures-7988.html
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2006, 07:41 PM   #3
2 Rivet Member
 
TIMETOGO's Avatar
 
1988 29' Excella
PATAGONIA , Arizona
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Dont Feel So Bad, Its The Same In N.y. The U.s. (also Known As The Land Of No)
TIMETOGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2006, 07:48 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
peegreen's Avatar
 
1998 31' Excella 1000
South Berwick , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 709
Crazy Laws?

We were vacationing on Cape Cod and while the TV was parked outside a shop, a gentleman approached and told me it was illegal in MA to leave the trailer hitch installed in the receiver after the trailer was disconnected. I never heard of anything like this before, and I usually remove the hitch, but the hitch is an integral part of my bike rack, so I leave it installed if we're using it on a daily basis. What crime is this preventing?
__________________
WBCCI 24291
New England Unit
Metropolitan NY Unit
peegreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2006, 08:17 PM   #5
Retired.
 
Currently Looking...
. , At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by peegreen
We were vacationing on Cape Cod and while the TV was parked outside a shop, a gentleman approached and told me it was illegal in MA to leave the trailer hitch installed in the receiver after the trailer was disconnected. I never heard of anything like this before, and I usually remove the hitch, but the hitch is an integral part of my bike rack, so I leave it installed if we're using it on a daily basis. What crime is this preventing?
I wouldn't trust the word of a single "gentleman" telling you something like that. I would question it with someone who knows, like a person directly involved in law enforcement. Of course, where I live, if you park your car in a parking space, and are facing traffic instead of away from traffic, you will be liable if somone hits your parked car.
And it could always be worse, I found out yesterday (Thanksgiving day!!!) Code Enforcement runs 7 days a week here. Don't ask how I found this out...
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2006, 06:25 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
peegreen's Avatar
 
1998 31' Excella 1000
South Berwick , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
I wouldn't trust the word of a single "gentleman" telling you something like that. I would question it with someone who knows, like a person directly involved in law enforcement. Of course, where I live, if you park your car in a parking space, and are facing traffic instead of away from traffic, you will be liable if somone hits your parked car.
And it could always be worse, I found out yesterday (Thanksgiving day!!!) Code Enforcement runs 7 days a week here. Don't ask how I found this out...
I hope it was just a ticket and no damage was sustained.
__________________
WBCCI 24291
New England Unit
Metropolitan NY Unit
peegreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2006, 06:38 AM   #7
Retired.
 
Currently Looking...
. , At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by peegreen
I hope it was just a ticket and no damage was sustained.
I got the ticket about 20 years ago for the parking incident. Sigh...
The code enforecement was a code enforcement patrol car pulling up to my house when I was backing Goliath into the driveway, and the code nazi asking if I had a permit. We have gangs here torturing people to death, and they are more worried about a guy parking his travel trailer. Glad our priorities are in their proper order.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2006, 06:55 AM   #8
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
We have gangs here torturing people to death, and they are more worried about a guy parking his travel trailer. Glad our priorities are in their proper order.
Terry, you need to get YOUR priorities in line with everyone elses! Nobody cares about the gangs torturing people as long as it's not in THEIR neighborhood. I found out the hard way here though, you don't mess with people's parking, their view, or their pets! Our city can spend millions of dollars without public comment, but I'm here to tell you that if you mess around with the parking in front of somebody's house, or seize somebody's dog merely because it's vicious and attacked a six year old who needed a mere 76 stitches in his face and head after he was attacked, they'll fill the Council Chambers with angry citizens... DEMANDING you leave them alone! After all... it is THEIR parking!

SO GET YOUR PERMIT OR ELSE!!!

Rog
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 05:12 AM   #9
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
Images: 37
Oh boy, Terry! Be thankful you don't live around THIS bunch of curmudeons!

Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 07:05 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
2019 22' Sport
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by peegreen
We were vacationing on Cape Cod and while the TV was parked outside a shop, a gentleman approached and told me it was illegal in MA to leave the trailer hitch installed in the receiver after the trailer was disconnected. I never heard of anything like this before, and I usually remove the hitch, but the hitch is an integral part of my bike rack, so I leave it installed if we're using it on a daily basis. What crime is this preventing?
If you have a vehicle with an energy-absorbing bumper assembly, the bumper protects the structure in low-speed collisions. If someone rear-ends your vehicle when you have a ball mount in place, the energy gets transferred to the frame and/or body structure. Instead of just getting a new bumper cover, your vehicle may have to spend a few hours on the rack getting stretched back out. You might say that someone else is paying for it, but your vehicle will have sustained greater damage. The vehicle that hit yours will also sustain greater damage.

Just some food for thought. (Don't ask me how I discovered this.)
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 07:30 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
str8strm's Avatar
 
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
Tujunga , California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,969
Images: 6
85MH325.....just heard that homeowners association dropped the fine threat this morning
__________________
Ron and Debbie Lawrence
1985 345 Motorhome...... delightfully tacky......yet unrefined
AIR 7992
str8strm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 09:55 AM   #12
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertF
If you have a vehicle with an energy-absorbing bumper assembly, the bumper protects the structure in low-speed collisions. If someone rear-ends your vehicle when you have a ball mount in place, the energy gets transferred to the frame and/or body structure. Instead of just getting a new bumper cover, your vehicle may have to spend a few hours on the rack getting stretched back out. You might say that someone else is paying for it, but your vehicle will have sustained greater damage. The vehicle that hit yours will also sustain greater damage.
This is part of one of the many problems we have in this country. The victim (parked car owner) is being treated as the offender. My answer is don't rear end parked cars and you won't have to worry about being protected from them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by str8strm
85MH325.....just heard that homeowners association dropped the fine threat this morning
While I don't have a dog in this fight, I am aware that the peace sign is considered to be a satanic symbol. It is an inverted broken cross and was originally a symbol used in witchcraft and later found its way into the '60's counter culture and somehow into the peace movement and anti-authority movements of the hippies.

Anyway, as much as I would have not wanted to see one plastered on one of the houses in my neighborhood, I would have to have sided with the homeowner in that, whatever she was trying to say, her right to freedom of expression is guaranteed under the Bill of Rights and it is Constitutional for her to display whatever symbolism she wants. As long as it isn't obscene the homeowners' association can't prevent it. Or at least they would have a long loosing battle on their hands. The president of the homeowners' association may have been advised so if he consulted legal expertise in an attempt to persue the fines and court action.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 10:10 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
wkerfoot's Avatar
 
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
...While I don't have a dog in this fight, I am aware that the peace sign is considered to be a satanic symbol. It is an inverted broken cross and was originally a symbol used in witchcraft and later found its way into the '60's counter culture and somehow into the peace movement and anti-authority movements of the hippies...
I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I was told by a Vietnam era ex-Navy guy that it is the combination of two semaphore signals "n" and "d" for nuclear disarmament.

Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA

https://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 10:28 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
59toaster's Avatar
 
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
Images: 22
I am in violation at my house and have been for 4 years. No HOA so far no hassle. Code says behind front plane of house behind privacy fence.

My neighbors house sits further back then mine. The front of their house is nearly where the rear of mine is. The low spot between the houses is the Neighbors driveway along the property line.

I have been asked several times if "I'm keeping it". Well for the first 3 years it was on the driveway. I thought I would be nice and at great pains in my back I leveled out next to the garage to get the trailer off the drive and next to the house. With the house giving t some scale I figured it would look better to the neighbor. The property is about 12.5 ft off the side of the house so to have easy access to the door its still prone the front of the garage. This also allows me enough room to get my lawn tractor from front yard to back yard (3ft retaining wall on other side of house).

SO she decided it being "closer to her house" was a bit of a problem. We talked with her boyfriend (she's nearly 70) there. Her questioning why I cant' put it on the other side of the house (soft ground pine trees not on my yard retaining wall, telephone pole no room to maneuver it).

So I explained to her the "code". I currently have no way to put it in my back yard. My fence along her property line is between 6-12ft on my property. (This strip of land happens to be the only way she can get her lawn tractor into her back yard.). She questions if its on her property...well the rear stake is clearly visible and we bot know where it is. The front stake is buried but I roughly know where it is and if you sight down them her driveway is only about 2 ft off the line. The retaining wall mige be partly on her property but the coach isn't.

SO she is starting to insinuate calling the county and reporting me. I go onto explain what I would have to do to be "in compliance". It would include moving my fence out ot the property line grading along the side of the house and a privacy fence that the camper would still be taller then.

Honestly other then the cost to move the fence and finish the retaining wall and a few trees removed I really wouldn't mind access to my back yard. Course its going to be really rough on her back to carry her lawn tractor Up the steps in her retain wall so she can mow her back yard since she wouldn be able to drive around her wall in my yard. Her boy friend understood the fence moving they would be on the loosing end more then I and shut her up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cribafter3.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	66.8 KB
ID:	29122  
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
59toaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 10:32 AM   #15
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
Images: 37
Homeowner's associations and CC&R debacles are pretty common, and usually the association wins as the owner agreed to abide by the CC&Rs as a deed restriction, regardless of how unreasonable the CC&Rs or their interpretation by the Association board may later seem. Government (including quasi-government such as homeowner associations) however, has no duty to act in any situation. One always has to take into account that merely because an individual or individuals are offended doesn't neccesarily dictate that action must be taken.

What I found interesting about this particular issue was that the association president apparently fired members of the "appearance committee" for failing to take action. It has always sorta seemed to me that the reason to have a "committee" is so that one person's perspective isn't imposed as rule of law on the general membership. I would have normally expected that once taken to committee and rejected that the issue would have been dropped. It's interesting that the president chose to press the issue anyway. I'd hope that the general membership would take action on that at their next business meeting....
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 10:42 AM   #16
Retired.
 
Currently Looking...
. , At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
The only way to beat HOA covbenants is if you can prove you had or were doing whatever the HOA deemed against their covenants before the covenant was passed, i.e., like having your Airstream parked next to the garage, where it had been for the last 5 years, and the covenant was enacted last week.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 11:29 AM   #17
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
The only way to beat HOA covbenants is if you can prove you had or were doing whatever the HOA deemed against their covenants before the covenant was passed, i.e., like having your Airstream parked next to the garage, where it had been for the last 5 years, and the covenant was enacted last week.
You can also "beat" them if the HOA allowed the activity by other members prior to you engaging in the activity. I.E. if they allowed someone in another part of the neighborhood to have a travel trailer parked by their garage in the past without making them move it. IIRC, my HO regulations say I can't have a trailer in certain parts of my yard. I believe mine would fall within guidelines since it is behind the frontal plane and is obstructed from view except when you look straight down the driveway. But there was a neighbor on one of the other streets that had a 5th wheel parked in their driveway for a couple of years before we got our Airstream. There is also a neighbor on another street that has a utility box trailer (commercial) parked in his driveway every night and no one has raised an issue with either yet so I would have the case that those were allowed to be in violation without any objection so mine must be allowed to stay or it would be an act of discrimination against my property. A HOA cannot enforce rules with discrimination or unequally. I would be able to successfully win a lawsuite based on equal protection under the law.

However, since we don't have a formal HOA I don't think too many of my neighbors are aware of any restrictions on their property much less any specific restrictions about trailers. Now if one of them puts a car up on blocks at the curb, I think they would probably get the rules down and start reading them.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 01:23 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
InsideOut's Avatar

 
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,711
Images: 108
Update:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
Oh boy, Terry! Be thankful you don't live around THIS bunch of curmudeons!

Roger
Good! This was giving us Coloradans a bad name!

Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002

RMVAC | ACI - CO (CAC) Unit (Formerly WBCCI) | BIRDY - our 1956 Safari | 1964 Serro Scotty
InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 08:17 PM   #19
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
so I would have the case that those were allowed to be in violation without any objection so mine must be allowed to stay or it would be an act of discrimination against my property. A HOA cannot enforce rules with discrimination or unequally. I would be able to successfully win a lawsuite based on equal protection under the law.
I wouldn't place any bets on that, but it's a common misconception. While I recognize that state law and case law interpretation vary from state to state, generally one violation of law or contract can't be used as a defense to justify the appropriateness of another violation. Whether or not other similar offenses were prosecuted is irrelevent in determining the facts of another violation.

Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2006, 06:49 AM   #20
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
I wouldn't place any bets on that, but it's a common misconception. While I recognize that state law and case law interpretation vary from state to state, generally one violation of law or contract can't be used as a defense to justify the appropriateness of another violation. Whether or not other similar offenses were prosecuted is irrelevent in determining the facts of another violation.

Roger
We aren't talking about regular law here, we are talking about contractural law. I know that if I get a ticket for speeding I can't successfully plea that there were other speeders that didn't get stopped so I shouldn't be fined. However, HOA's restrictions are different. HOA's have the ability and responsibility to administer their restrictions equally without discrimination. To knowingly allow one homeowner to commit an infraction and not enforce the covenants but to attempt to enforce them on another for the same infraction is not enforcing them equally and would be discrimination against one homeowner in favor of another under contract law. (Not being a lawyer I may not be getting the terminology correct, but the theory is valid.) By giving exception to one HO, the HOA has set a precident and must abide by that precident in future incidents. The only way to rectify the situation would be to retroactively fine the initial offender and the new offender together, but the HOA couldn't just start levying fines against one HO after giving implied consent to the behavior to another HO.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody use the chat room? kitchenclose Off Topic Forum 6 05-04-2006 02:24 PM
AIR Midwest : 2005 Moraine View Midwest Rally jcanavera Forum Rallies & Meet Ups 363 06-20-2005 08:04 AM
NorCal : NorCal Rally- Casini Ranch, April 8-10 Big Dee Forum Rallies & Meet Ups 154 04-18-2005 02:28 PM
Suggestions, travel crib needed SCBrat Our Community 13 04-18-2004 04:27 PM
Would this be legal? Safari Tim Community Polls 14 12-13-2003 01:23 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.