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Silvertwinkie · 01-28-2004, 03:01 PM

MaShep....there is a little blurb that specs are subject to change without notice. I would assume this also is covered by that disclaimer.

As for the counter space, our Safari SS came with sink covers that can also be used as counter space. True the stove cover would have also added to this space. We cook quite a bit and compared to the Bambi, the 25' Safari is much better than the Bambi. Now compared to the Classic perhaps it is a bit lacking, but we haven't seen any problem with the config of the 25'!

We very much like the dual sinks at it make washing the dishes much easier. At some point when I can admin to my photos, I will update them with interior shots of the galley and the sink covers.

MaShep · 01-28-2004, 04:03 PM

<..there is a little blurb that specs are subject to change without notice. I would assume this also is covered by that disclaimer.>
Yeah...
The question seems to be are the "specs" different from one AS to the next one that comes from the factory? What exactly can we expect we are buying? I'm referencing from personal experience and comparisons made with 2004 16CCDs owners. Not just major changes like holding tanks and wrap around windows front and back. Other items like awnings, fire extinguishers, the Bambi logos, the extra hose attachment for the tank flush, cushions and more.
Yes, each Airstream is hand built and I appreciate that. I also appreciate the efforts Airstream is making in resolving quality control issues.
I'm interested in hearing what the resolve is for the burner cover.
BTW, there's a white cover (cutting board) shown on the sink for the 16CCD on Airstream.com, sure would be nice to have it.
Cheers, Linda

Porky Pig · 01-28-2004, 05:21 PM

I think part of the problem is that the website is not keeping up with what is going on in the factory.

This happens in the auto industry all the time. Just a couple of weeks after my truck was built .. Ford deleted the glove box light and the insulation blanket from under the hood. They failed to tell their customers (and dealers) who had trucks on order.

Big Dee · 01-28-2004, 05:25 PM

I could not imagine not having my stove cover. There is NO counter space in the 25' and the cover is crucial! I always have stuff on it. I can not believe the factory 86 it. That was a mistake.

One of the main reasons I upgraded to the 30' Classic was for kitchen space. (& bedroom space, dining space, livingroom space...)

Silvertwinkie · 01-28-2004, 05:28 PM

I agree, that sink cover is sweet. I will say that every 2004 I have seen (and I've seen close to a dozen) built since August or September of 2003 as 2004 models have all had the top folds deleted if it had a stainless steel oven door cover.

I am not sure there is any resolution to be found on the issue as it was a design change made at some point after a certain date. I agree fully that the website is falling far behind what's actually happening.

If the sink covers are designed to replace the space, it seems to work well for us. Granted a stove cover would also add even more kitchen space, but then again that folding door could muck up the alum CCD type wall that the kitchens have now....

Eric

MaShep · 01-28-2004, 05:37 PM

<I think part of the problem is that the website is not keeping up with what is going on in the factory.>
This is true, but for many items the factory is just not including or installing them, as they should be.

RivetED · 01-28-2004, 05:45 PM

In our phone conversation, Airstream was straight forward about the cover. They explained, to my somewhat satisfaction, the discrepency. Stainless appliance finish, no cover. I still don't understand, but...my major concern was deceit from the dealer/sales. I'm convinced there was none, intended or otherwise. We are buying the trailer.
The problem was the actual s/n factory 'sticker' (not a brochure, or generic list) indicated the cover was included. HOWEVER, the 'sticker' also showed a 'radio/cassette'. To my delight I could only find a 'radio/CD' installed

! No problem!
...The point we should take from this is; the items listed on the new trailers 'sticker' are not always what is actually installed in that unit. I would hope the factory is more prudent in what it shows on the individual 'sticker'. It did cause some tension in the sales process that was unnecessary.

Silvertwinkie · 01-28-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaShep

This is true, but for many items the factory is just not including or installing them, as they should be.

I don't believe that the factory is listing items and is not installing, I feel that the factory has made a specification change without notice. In this case all units that have the stainless oven door and fridge panels all do not have the stove cover.

Ed & Debbie make a good point...the sticker said AM/FM/Cassette, however the unit had a CD player. The sticker on my Bambi said 8 gallon black tank, however the tank was clearly an 18 gallon black tank. Sometimes it can be a positive change and other times it can be seen as a negitive change.

Is there conflicting info, you bet, I have no disagreement with anyone there. Heck I've emailed and also shared some of my comments with the folks at Airstream in person as well. However, I think it's reckless to make an accusation that says they are not installing things. Again, it all boils down to specifications changing without notice. Is it frustrating? Absolutely! Is it as criminal as it's being made out to be...I can't believe that’s the case.

Eric

MaShep · 01-28-2004, 06:29 PM

<I think it's reckless to make an accusation that says they are not installing things>
Sorry, but as I mentioned with my total post above, it's not an accusation. It's a fact that items were not included / installed with my unit, and obviously overlooked by the factory. I also trust that I have not been misled by other owners. It bothers me that I've come to feel that I'm not sure if there are more quality issues or trim items that I'm still not aware of.
For one example, can you imagine Airstream not afixing the Bambi logos or the ccd plate to the sides and back of a 2004 16CCD? Ours came with only a Thor sticker by the door and the airstream.com letters stuck on the rear bumper. That's had to be a mistake. The Bambi emblems were supposed to be permanently attached. I don't recall seeing that listed on the specs at all.
We shouldn't have to wonder if we're getting a complete product. Sorry, I guess my posts took us off topic.

Silvertwinkie · 01-28-2004, 07:02 PM

Linda,

I had no idea that those items specifically all happened to you....I must have misread that post...what did Airstream say about your situation? I have only seen the Airstream.com stickers on one coach for sale in Texas from a dealership. I always thought that was done by the dealer and not by the factory. None of the dealers I have visited, not the factory had that on any of the bumpers.

Please do tell what Airstream told you when you spoke with them.

Eric

RivetED · 01-28-2004, 07:21 PM

Our new '04 Safari 25 has "AIRSTREAM.COM" (with a leading arrow pointing to it-approx. 3" black letters) on the rear bumber. All of the trailers there with bright bumpers had the 'A/S.com' on them. That won't last 20 micro-seconds at home.

MaShep · 01-28-2004, 08:05 PM

Hi Eric:
Yep... we have been working through quite a laundry list... some I have posted on your thread "Help track the quality of the '04s!” Not wanting to sound like some kind of an alarmist, there's a lot I don't wish to make public while making nice. I have faith that everything is going to be OK - sans a lot of aggravation and time lost on our part.
While getting other fixes done (under warranty), our AS service folks acquired two of our Bambi emblems and they are applied. I'm still short the one on the back and the CCD design plaque that belongs at the door. I don't know why AS didn't send them with the first two. I will ask Airstream for them next time we talk and I'm confident they will send them to me.
The reality of discovering this stuff myself and/or by communicating with other owners, is distressing and something I really don't think is fair.
Seems to me if something like a cover for the burners improves the workspace, it should be available and/or included regardless of the color scheme. It can't be that expensive or esthetically wrong? Especially if it is described in print or displayed on the company web site. Maybe I'd understand better if Airstream included a disclaimer that says something like 'all items listed or displayed may not be included'? Like I said earlier, there's a cover on the 16CCD sink that I'd sure like to have. I need every inch I can find too.
The Thor sticker and the bumper letters were stuck on very well... I removed them. I don’t' think they were applied by the dealer.
My mention of a missing fire extinguisher, and the extra hose attachment for the tank flush are not problems personal to me. But I understand they are authentic issues on two other 2004 16CCDs.
We want to enjoy our cool little pod, and get past the irritations, large and small.
I want to believe! I want to believe!

overlander63 · 01-28-2004, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed & Debbie
In our phone conversation, Airstream was straight forward about the cover. They explained, to my somewhat satisfaction, the discrepency. Stainless appliance finish, no cover. I still don't understand, but...my major concern was deceit from the dealer/sales. I'm convinced there was none, intended or otherwise. We are buying the trailer.
The problem was the actual s/n factory 'sticker' (not a brochure, or generic list) indicated the cover was included. HOWEVER, the 'sticker' also showed a 'radio/cassette'. To my delight I could only find a 'radio/CD' installed ! No problem!

Monetarily, the CD player probably costs more than the stove cover. Is the stove cover available at all from A/S? Even a different colored one, you could get it and put it on yourself. Maybe even the dealer might work with you and give you a few bucks off the cost, if you let him know you were disappointed at it not being there like you thought it should be. (you know, the customer satisfaction thing)
Terry

Big Dee · 01-28-2004, 10:17 PM

MaShep,
What a bummer experience. Buying an AS should be anything but! I hope it works out.

Sounds like the quality control dept took the day off when your coach came through the line. Unbelievable that they ALL missed putting on the badges. What about the final walk through? This baffles and concerns me as I have a 30' Classic coming through the line right now. What explains it? Good days at the factory and bad ones? Geez...

As for changing specs, the '04 Classic is listed with porcelin kitchen sink but the ones I've seen all have stainless steel.

Porky Pig · 01-29-2004, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Dee
As for changing specs, the '04 Classic is listed with porcelin kitchen sink but the ones I've seen all have stainless steel.

That's funny ... ours came with porcelin sinks.

Petunia said ... "I thought these came with stainless steel now."

It really doesn't matter with us.

Ours also came with a SeaLand china toilet. Yet we were expecting to see a Thetford plastic unit ... 'cause that's what we have seen in other recent Classics.

87MH · 01-29-2004, 06:25 AM

We need to remember that, compared to the magnitudes of most assembly lines (autos, bicycles, TV’s, valves, etc), Airstream is practically a "Mom and Pop" one off manufacturer. With as many different products (models, trim levels) they run through, the consumer should cut a bit of slack as long as the end product does not lack functionality, and all units are treated the same.

Obviously some things have gotten past QC that should not have (i.e. outside trim tags), but interior anomalies (sink material, commode construction, fabric colors) should be anticipated as suppliers and sources change.

Along these same lines, each change adds or subtracts a bit of weight from the delivered product, and the cumulative total MAY be significant. The other day I was lusting after a China commode at PPL, and in the process of inspection I hefted it off of the shelf. What a surprise -- the weight difference compared to the plastic is SIGNIFICANT!

Bottom line, perhaps the factory does deserve some criticism, but not so much for interior details as not supplying a certified weight for each axel (and the tongue) upon delivery.

Big Dee · 01-29-2004, 09:41 AM

I agree that fit and finish issues will occur in any coach but missing exterior badges??? How could anyone walk by it at the factory and not say "Hmmm, there seems to be something missing here?"

Little changes don't bother me (i.e. porcelin vs. SS sink) BUT big ones (leaving out a stove lid) would. I think it's ok for printed specs that are not up to date but the web site should be.

Unless of course it's a change I like such as a china toilet. Well, who said customers aren't difficult.

RoadKingMoe · 01-29-2004, 10:36 AM

Perhaps the stainless steel stove cover I saw was the Camco Universal Fit Folding RV Stove Cover, Part Number 43553

They also make an oak cutting board topper, PN 43753 as well as non-folding ones in black, white, and almond.

MaShep · 01-29-2004, 06:54 PM

<the consumer should cut a bit of slack as long as the end product does not lack functionality, and all units are treated the same.>
I'd agree with this, but apparently all units have not been created equal.
The emblem issue was waaaaaaaay down on our problem list. But, I'm keepin' the faith.
I read that airstream is cranking up their production, that bothers me. I sure hope they pay the workers well. The teams must be under a lot of pressure.

Thanks BigDee

lynn · 01-30-2004, 03:18 AM

According to Airstream engineering at a recent RV show, black bi-fold range covers can be purchased for your cook top.
Stainless steel covers are not available, this is what caused the bi-fold range cover to be deleted in the o4 models .They were apparently going for the stainless look; they may be back in the future as standard.