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01-03-2010, 09:35 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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I crossed paths and recommended a solution with hard-to-close door latches yesterday at http://www.airforums.com/forums/f453...ock-59841.html. No, it's not a freezing problem for you -- for the last handful of years, this usually is an under-lubed mechanism from the supplier.
Furnace, part I: You don't have your model/year listed in your profile. For example, if this was a 2008 you bought off the lot just recently, those batteries would have sat there gradually discharging for quite some time. It's just not possible to know. I custom ordered my '06, so the batteries had not sat around at all -- I'll be replacing them before this coming season finally -- they've worked well! Batteries discharged below 50% can be damaged in terms of holding capacity and longevity. Reference (among many): http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...tml#post643843
Furnace, part II: And/or .... if I'm dry camping (no plug-in) and keep the thermostat at 70, that furnace will be on so darned much during the night that indeed the batteries will discharge most of the way. And again, you don't even want to discharge them much below 45% or they will be damaged. I usually set the thermostat down around 60 or the upper 50s and bring warm bedding if I'm dry camping. My standard is to sleep without earplugs and then have the thermostat set low enough that the furnace isn't keeping me from dropping asleep with the constant on & offs. First one out of bed in the morning raises it back to 62-64 degrees. Microfleece tops & Smartwool socks work wonders.
Please keep us filled in on your saga.
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01-03-2010, 09:40 AM
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#22
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3 Rivet Member
2007 31' Classic
holland
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 190
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this is mt 2nd airstream,1st was a 2005 safari.travel 4-5000 miles per year and the best i can tell everything is still straight and intact.other sobs that i had never held up to the road like the airstream.i bought airstream for this reason and because of their simplicity.had one recall on this current trailer and a faulty water pump in close to four years of ownership.until you get some mileage on your unit you will not appreciate the engineering that goes into an airstream.bought new ,since i intend to keep it until i pass it on to the next family member.airstreams are not inexpensive,but it beats the heck out of something that is cheap and the design is not well thought out.this classic tows so effortlessly with the hensley that my travels are totally stress free.as others have pointed out with a few adjustments you can get on the road and really understand the airstream superiority.
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01-03-2010, 11:16 AM
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#23
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3 Rivet Member
2009 30' Classic
Salem
, Alabama
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 96
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New H/R Savoy LX 2008: 1st trip, Carrier air would trip, 80 mile trip to dealer; reset problem,returned to camp> Air operated for 1 hour. Returned to dealer. Ordered new(2 months at dealer) unit. 2nd trip; Fla. water control panel started leaking (at night) flooded sub-floor &carpet.(3 day,s dry-out) Water heater fitting developed leak( behind screw on paneling) 2 days dry out. At times; SO would not properly close with-out manual assist. I purchased that model because my 1984 H/R was almost problem free for 15 years.However, that unit was built like a tank. But creature comforts was nil; compared to all brands being built today. I think buyers remorse, is somewhat at play on some of these complains. Comparing older 7 ft W to today,s wide 8.7 plus other add on.s is somewhat unrealistic. Call Randy McNeeley AS C Sevice,973 596 6111 ext 7411 he has alway,s assisted me with a pleasant attitude. Cheer,s and have a great new year to all. Mel
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01-03-2010, 11:47 AM
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#24
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,786
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Not a lot of clarity is there? Some people get Airstreams with lots of QC problems and some don't. Some brands are better than others. Some Airstreams have corrosion problems and some don't. Some this and some that…
All is anecdotal evidence and only goes so far. Some "evidence" is not evidence at all, but myths. A website that has ratings for RV's offers a little guidance, but like a lot of websites with ratings, doesn't have enough of a sample.
What makes Airstreams with problems all the more irritating is the premium price for a supposedly premium product. I don't mind paying a premium for a product that delivers because in the long run that means less life interruption and is cheaper than buying average or below average products (those that follow my posts know that I am very happy with Toyotas and Michelins because they deliver). A weak dealer network and some stonewalling by the company increase the irritation.
The Forum both promotes crap and knowledge and it can be difficult to figure out which is which. When we were looking I learned a lot about corrosion (enabled me to check out the trailer for it before buying), other problems and how to buy and what to select. I didn't take the QC complaints seriously enough.
Would I have bought something else if I had more seriously taken the QC issue? I don't know. That they look cool is a big factor in buying one and not easy to measure. Looking cool is quite subjective, but also apparently performs a function—ease in towing. Ease in towing is very important for us because we drive a lot of miles each year.
When you have one, what to do when things start going badly? Once we owned one and found many QC and design issues and that we had a dealer that did more damaging than fixing, then something had to be done. Contacting the company and then eventually getting things fixed at the JC service center was first. I can fix a lot of things myself and have made modifications to make it a better designed trailer. Complaining on the Forum eases the pain, but hopefully it's balanced and creative complaining. Learning on the Forum helps avoid future problems and helps us know how to fix things. And being honest with people who are interested in buying one, especially a new one, indirectly puts pressure on the company which many help the greater community.
Gene
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01-03-2010, 12:41 PM
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#25
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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New Airstream coaches.
First, we are a parts and service center, only.
We have never sold any Airstream trailers or motorhomes.
It has always been a mystery to me, going on over 43 years with the Airstream group, why buyers continue to support selling dealers, that lets say, are less than desireable.
As the story goes, "well" they had the best price. Not always, but usually, a dealer that sells rock bottom, is going to offer next to nothing, in terms of owner satisfaction. Get the thing delivered and "OUT THE DOOR."
Then, in short order, the owner finds all kinds of things wrong. Then they go back to the same dealer, and expect top notch repairs and/or service.
SURPRISE. All to many times, the coach is in worse condition, "AFTER" the repairs, than before.
That becomes an interesting dilemma. What biased the owners original decision, to purchase from that dealer?
Was it price??
Was it quality??
Was it location??
Or, what was it, really???
Not always, but as the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for."
There are many top quality Airstream dealers, that bend over many times, to not only satisfy the new owner with a top quality coach, but to make sure that they are properly rigged as well.
They continue, even after the fact, to satisfy their customer base, during warranty as well as after the warranty has expired. If there is a warranty issue, they go to bat, for their customers.
The issue then becomes, why did someone buy a coach, from a dealer, who does not have a good reputation, that cuts prices, but......could care less about taking care of that same customer who has some warranty issues???
Is that another case of "you got what you paid for?"
Does that customer really expect top notch and/or first class service from that dealer?
They sure do, BUT "SURPRISE". It's not going to happen. That owner can complain up a storm to Airstream, who will listen, but cannot force a dealer to do anything. Then after all else fails, Airstream may suggest that you take the coach to another dealer, that you probably should have gone to in the first place.
Bottom line, is very basic, but we all too often get side tracked because we can save a few bucks. I do not know a formula, that would be valid, that sets a dollar comparison or value, to the misery encountered.
Purchasing a new or many times a used coach, from a top notch dealer, has many rewards. It's highly likely, that the coach was serviced and checked out, properly and thoroughly, according to good business standards. That's what Airstream pays them to do, with new coaches. That in turn, will result in the owner not having to go back and back, for service, but far more important, experiencing enjoyment as Airstreaming offers, and is all about, at least most of the time.
The choice is always up to the buyer, who should memorized the phrase, "BUYER BEWARE."
Supporting those dealers that are great, might mean more traveling to see them, but, rest assured, they put their customers in the right kind of "good hands."
Unsupporting, or avoiding a dealer, that just doesn't get it, and cares less to boot, pays dividends over the long haul, to you, not to them.
Back in the good ole days, Airstream would cancel a dealer, "who didn't perform." Today, it's a different story.
You, the buyer, are in total control.
Don't let yourself down.
Enjoy the music.
And again, we "are not" a selling dealer.
Happy New Year.
Andy
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01-03-2010, 01:17 PM
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#26
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,786
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If there were a lot of Airstream dealers, going to another one would be more of a choice, and if Airstream kept a close eye on them, there would be very few bad ones. There weren't that many dealers before the Great Recession, there are even fewer now. There's none in Ohio last time I checked.
We have 2 dealers in Colorado, the closest being 240 miles. At the first one (even further) the salesman insulted our intelligence and then went to answer the phone and didn't come back for 15-20 minutes. We bought at the 2nd one. The salesman was more attentive, though not terribly well informed, the service dep't, executives and the warranty person were terrible. For us the next closest dealers are 6 hours away (SLC) and 10 or more (Albuquerque). Not much of a choice there. I know the smallness of the company makes it difficult to get and retain dealers, though it would seem the power of Thor could right that. Same with dealer quality. For Thor not to work on these issues means a lot of lost sales and a lot of owner frustration.
It takes a lot of reading on the Forum to know where to go. Part of the process is just looking at different models carefully and slowly. That takes time to do and time to think about it. It's difficult to purchase a new Airstream with knowledge and wisdom and difficult to obtain good warranty coverage. It takes a lot of determination to buy one wisely. The buyer has some control, but I'm not sure it's "total".
Gene
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01-03-2010, 01:41 PM
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#27
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3 Rivet Member
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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first off: i truly appreciate the great support/info/anwsers on this forum !
canoestream: i'll update my profile, its an 09 25' international, on my last trip the furnace was set to 58... yes the saga will continue
woppa 4: no buyers remorse at all, i love my trailer when it works. and am i wrong to expect that from a new trailer? some say yes - some say no.
crawfordgene: yes no tracking here of good or bad. people are always quick to complain, but slow to praise... i did a little research on AS before buying, was hoping my new one would be ok and have no QC issues. but once i sat foot in my airstream i knew i don't want an SOB trailer... it's a painful marriage but i will get thru this !
inland RV: you have great points there...
why did i choose "my" dealer? the next closet one was hundreds of miles away (to my best knowledge at least), so i guess he was choosen by default... the price was probably in line with others... so location was the factor i guess...
will i support him? no, and i regret i didn't go to a dealer who stands behind AS and supports customers... lesson learned. but so will my AS dealer (and its attached service department)
"Then, in short order, the owner finds all kinds of things wrong. Then they go back to the same dealer, and expect top notch repairs and/or service.
SURPRISE. All to many times, the coach is in worse condition, "AFTER" the repairs, than before."
yes you hit the nail on the head! at my final walk thru i noticed one of the stab jacks not retracting all the way. the anything but polite "service tech" did try to "fix" it right there and then by laying under the trailer and starting to hit the jack with his feet as hard as he could... i was in total awe and speechless, this guy just started kicking my brandnew AS !! ... few weeks later they installed my solar, i was presented with the "finished" install... the interior had saw dust all over the place!!!
why did i go back for more?? i don't know... didn't know any better, didn't know where else to go...
but that will change and you will hear from me shortly...
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01-03-2010, 02:01 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
If there were a lot of Airstream dealers, going to another one would be more of a choice, and if Airstream kept a close eye on them, there would be very few bad ones. There weren't that many dealers before the Great Recession, there are even fewer now. There's none in Ohio last time I checked.
We have 2 dealers in Colorado, the closest being 240 miles. At the first one (even further) the salesman insulted our intelligence and then went to answer the phone and didn't come back for 15-20 minutes. We bought at the 2nd one. The salesman was more attentive, though not terribly well informed, the service dep't, executives and the warranty person were terrible. For us the next closest dealers are 6 hours away (SLC) and 10 or more (Albuquerque). Not much of a choice there. I know the smallness of the company makes it difficult to get and retain dealers, though it would seem the power of Thor could right that. Same with dealer quality. For Thor not to work on these issues means a lot of lost sales and a lot of owner frustration.
It takes a lot of reading on the Forum to know where to go. Part of the process is just looking at different models carefully and slowly. That takes time to do and time to think about it. It's difficult to purchase a new Airstream with knowledge and wisdom and difficult to obtain good warranty coverage. It takes a lot of determination to buy one wisely. The buyer has some control, but I'm not sure it's "total".
Gene
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Gene.
I person who wants to buy or trade an Airstream, could always pose the question on this Forums, as to who is good, and who doesn't make the grade. But then that opens the doors sometimes for harsh underserving criticism, for a dealer that really tries. NO ONE, can satisfy everyone, all the time.
The investment a person makes today, purchasing an Airstream, is several times over that of buying a home, years ago.
I can only suggest that a buyer "to be" does their homework, and lots of it.
Homework, is free.
Keeping a watchful eye on selling dealers, I think, might be a thing of the past.
Back in the good ole days, when there were tons of dealers, watching and chosing them was easy. Today, it's somewhat difficult to find dealers, that are still in business, and have a decent floor plan at a bank or lending institution, in order to lay in an inventory of coaches.
It does appear though, that the RV business has reasonably survived, and that sales have already increased.
Wish the same thing could have happened to the automotive business.
Locally, 2 of my friends who respectively owned a Buick and Chevy dealership, are now on vacation, unfortunately, permanently. And, it appears the bottom hasn't shown it's face yet.
Fleetwood, I forecasted, several years ago, was going to fail. I was laughed at by many. What did they do to deserve that ending?? They set up factory owned selling lots, around the country, with little to no supervision. HELLO!!! What do you think would eventually happen???
When Fleetwood finally woke up, it was way way too late to stop the sinking, of what once, a huge giant.
Wade Thompson, had the smarts to make it work, even during the recent tough times. Hats off to those that know how to "properly" manage.
Wade Thompson, you were a genius. God rest your soul.
Andy
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01-03-2010, 02:12 PM
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#29
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,016
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I've done this every month since 2004....
Same result, Airstream, Inc :: Home
Closest 150mi.... out of the country.
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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01-03-2010, 03:01 PM
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#30
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3 Rivet Member
2009 30' Classic
Salem
, Alabama
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 96
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Andy:You hit the nail on the head. I remember a post where someone in my state.
Purchased a unit in Wyoming . Poster said the dealer was closing and was able to buy at 70% of dealer invoice. Probably negative or no pre-delivery inspection, etc. We had almost double the normal rainfall this year. My in-law,s rental property was leaking with a new roof. If I remember; they had a couple minor leaks or cracked caulking. The poster said that he/she was thinking about burning the phone line to Air Stream. I would say "what" mel
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01-03-2010, 03:59 PM
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#31
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3 Rivet Member
2009 30' Classic
Salem
, Alabama
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 96
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Gene: Michelin great product. The only tire I buy.However, Toyoto; I think, is ripping a lot of floor boards out to fix something (new cars). Plus they have frame rust problems on some trucks. If you want some excitement, surf the Diesel forums, ref Dodge emission problems, new 6.7 L engines. Some lawyers are rounding up 6.7L owners for a possible class action court filing. I own one. It cost as much as my AS. That aside, I follow your posts. I have gained a great deal from you, Andy ,2 Air and others. I can understand the lingo. Mel
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01-03-2010, 04:34 PM
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#32
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Frederickburg
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 195
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I'm one of the AS wanna-a-be's. Can someone tell me what SOB stands for? Does it mean what I think it means? Forgive my ignorance!
As someone who is always looking at Airstreams this thread has some really good information. I love this website! Thanks.
kelly
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01-03-2010, 04:35 PM
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#33
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3 Rivet Member
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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SOB= some other brand
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01-03-2010, 04:37 PM
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#34
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,786
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My point was buying premiums brands saves money and time. The Toyota recall on floormats includes my Tundra and there's no way I can see that if the mat is properly installed it could affect the gas pedal. Some think it's a software glitch as the pedal no longer connects to the engine, but simply activates a computer. The rust problem seems to be on a limited number of Tundras; none on mine.
Thanks for the compliment Mel.
Back to Airstreams.
Gene
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01-03-2010, 04:41 PM
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#35
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Frederickburg
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 195
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Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kds
I'm one of the AS wanna-a-be's. Can someone tell me what SOB stands for? Does it mean what I think it means? Forgive my ignorance!
As someone who is always looking at Airstreams this thread has some really good information. I love this website! Thanks.
kelly
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Thanks so much!
kelly
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01-11-2010, 06:14 PM
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#36
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3 Rivet Member
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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update...
i went to a different service center...
the treated me with respect and were nice all the way...
there was no "that's the way it is" or "we could find anything wrong"... i am relieved to have found a company that cares about their customers and satisfaction!
- the fixes -
the leak: yes there was a leak and it was in the t-trap area of the shower - fixed.
the door: has been adjusted and now i can close the door from the inside with a strong tug... my co-sleepers and neighbours will get a good nights rest - fixed.
the 12v outlet: yes there has been a few installed that had problems with the size, outlet has been replaced - fixed.
batteries: have been tested, charger has been tested, solar has been tested. all have been found in good working order and no problems. (i will just look more into my power consumption and possibly a geny) at least now I KNOW that it is not the battery system.
DONE...
all fixed under warranty... thank you (AS customer service was helpfull and responsive with all that too)
now i know where to go when i have problems again, thank you for letting me vent
and after my recent trip that involved flying i am certainly looking forward to take my airstream out again...
thanks for everyones input !
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01-11-2010, 06:38 PM
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#37
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DnS
2008 30' Classic
Crosby
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
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I dont know if this will help or not but I just bought a new one and had similar problems.
I too noticed my furnace fan slowing way down after just a little operation. Then some lights burned out, etc. The problem was the DC converter was not working to its full capacity and was not charging the batteries fully. I had to diagnose myself.
My door will not shut very good if I have too much (dont take much) torque on the stabilizers. It really dont take much to tweek the chassis out of shape to keep the door from closing. No problems now that I know what not to do.
We were really frustrated also. Very happy now though. Good luck.
__________________
Dave & Sheila
2008 30' FB K Classic Limited (R-House)
2007 Dodge Diesel 2500
AIR #35797
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01-11-2010, 07:37 PM
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#38
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,786
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flm', glad to see you got your problems solved. Yes, flying is awful and only makes any other kind of traveling look better.
Gene
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01-11-2010, 07:58 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
1960 22' Safari
in the wilderness
, The great Mojave Desert
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,077
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Glad to hear you are happy with the new service center. Don't ever be shy telling folks where you get good service. It may help them out.
__________________
I'd rather be boon docking in the desert.
WBCCI 3344 FCU
AIR# 13896
CA 4
Yes, we have courtesy parking for you. About an hour North of Los Angeles.
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01-11-2010, 08:36 PM
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#40
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1 Rivet Member
2007 28' International CCD
Apalachicola
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
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I just want to say that I totally empathize with you and your problems. I have yet to find an authorized Airstream dealership without their heads up their [moderator edit] and I have been thoroughly disgusted with Airstream and their "quality" of craftsmanship. I am thoroughly convinced they no longer have a QA/QC department that checks over these newer units before they go to the sales floor; and because of these cutbacks, I have had to deal with multiple headaches that shouldn't be affiliated with a brand new unit. Examples include a rivet punched into the A/C drain line creating a leak through my kitchen wall, a toilet that wobbles, a broken microwave, defective bolts that have failed to attach the stabilizer jacks, faultly wiring, a broken skylight, and internal rivets that consistantly like to pop out of socket (plus many more). POOP ON AIRSTREAM! I have spent the past year hauling my RV back and forth to a dealership for warranty repair and no one will ever reimburse me for my time away from work, the gas, etc. Yes, I have a longer story that is affiliated with this anger, but I don't have the time or the tolerance to tell at this hour. I guess I needed to vent too. Just think, it could always be worse. It sounds like you got off lucky, at least these items can be fixed. I shutter to think what life would be like after my Airstream warranty expires.
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