16 vs 19 for family weekend trips ?

[Shiny16]

Just remember that plenty of folks camp with 2, 3 or 15 kids with no camper at all so there is no rule. It really is about how you want to camp.
About 3 to 5 gallon per person per shower I think is a fair estimate. That means get wet , turn off the water, soap up then rinse. There are always campground showers and usually facilities for washing dishes. Pick a trailer with an outside shower. Kids can wash in their bathing suits or you can buy a small pop up tent to use a s a shower stall.
A 19 or 16 has just about everything you would need for 2 people. Add a kid or two and it will always involve compromise until you start getting into 25 foot and above. Nothing wrong with that. Just evaluate the compromises that your willing to make.

[Crandell5]

We look tonight at the local dealer and saw a 19’ Caravel, 22’ Caravel, and a 23’ FC.

One thing it was difficult for us to figure out is what we’re gonna actually end up paying for one of these things we didn’t really get into any serious discussion with the sales guy about purchasing as were just looking but in terms of trying to figure out what we’re actually going to pay and how much does Window cost us I’m curious if the dealers are selling at MSRP or if they’re actually coming down substantially and give him big discounts to order something and put a deposit down.

I have access to a relative large piece of property so I likely won’t have to pay for storage but I’ll have to ensure it and pay registration I have to figure out the kind of costs I’m realistically going to pay here in California to potentially register a trailer with an $85,000 MSRP as well as what is my insurance company gonna charge me to insure it.

Any insight ?

[TinShanty]

IMO only...although the thread contains many good POV, you might want to consider a few things re size excluding tech/$ issues::
- Do you just WANT a larger AS?
- Di you just WANT a smaller AS?
- Will you be in crappy weather a lot?
- Any physical issues?
...much like TV questions...
My wife & I had a T@B for 13 years. Pulled it with an AUDI A4. MANY longish trips. Many more weekenders. Then got a Tacoma. A couple of coast to coast trips (8K miles; 6+ weeks on the road) We had super fun!
Got a new 16RB Bambi in June 2019. Love it.
But...
we are smallish ( her 5’, I 5’8”, both physically fit) so inside’s fine. Shower is super. Consider teak flooring.
We (no, SHE!) do great meals on stove. However part of our fun is sampling local food joints is our thing too.
After all our “time on the water” we are very light travelers. So if you’re gonna bring a lot of stuff you may need bigger.
If you’re gonna be boondocking, bigger tanks are nice but we used a 12 G transfer tank for years.
We are fine with the dust, rain, frost, bugs, smells and noise of RVing. After 1000’s of hotel nites I love being outside at sunset!
But you may just WANT to have more space and stuff. Personal choice.
About sales staff,
Sales is the same for paper clips or 747’s:
Real sales people take customer needs, wants and desires and match them with the business’ products and services with HONESTY & INTEGRITY. No “tell them what they want to hear” or “everyone says” bs. Hucksters do that... ever buy a house? How many nights/days did you spend in it? Zero, right? A HOUSE??? Yeah, me too! Don’t overthink it- get the AS that just “feels” right and go for it. If it’s a crappy choice, sell it and get something else.
Get out there and start having some fun!

[Prettygood]

Lots and lots of good advice and experience shared here. I wanted to weigh in on the Caravel vs Bambi question. The set of upgrades you get on the Caravel far exceed the cost differential. I seriously considered selling my 2019 Sport 22’ when the Caravel was released because it had many of the features I wanted to upgrade on mine or features I wish mine had. The list was long (pardon my handwriting).

I’m in a similar family situation, and three people in the 22’ works fine, and I’ve had my older two kids now sleeping in the back of the SUV on sleeping pads and bags (like a hard sided tent!). This has worked out much better for us, 3 in the trailer, 2 in the SUV.

If I were you, 22’ Caravel could work well now and be so well equipped that it could be a lifetime trailer for you as the kids grow up and move out. Good luck!

[KelloggKid]

Take any generality type comments with a grain of salt. For everyone who tells you that you MUST go bigger you will find someone who is glad they didn't. And for everyone who tells you that two adults can't possibly enjoy a good night sleep in the bed of a 19' you will find someone like my wife and I who do just fine. Same with wet bath versus dry, etc.

What is truly important is that you do a good job of defining what "camping" means to you. Where are you likely to camp? What kind of weather conditions are you likely to encounter? How far from home are you likely to go and for how long? Do you like to entertain or more inclined to go for a hike in the woods?

My wife and I went through the same process as you and settled on the 19'. For us the deciding factors were the wet bath and the size of the refrigerator. We almost went with a 20 due to the large kitchen area but then realized that while we love to cook at home that's now how we spend our time when camping. A typical camping trip for us is 3-7 days in duration and the fridge on the 16 just seemed a little too small and we do like the separate shower so finally settle on the 19. We prefer out of the way forest locations to glamping at some fancy resort so the smaller length trailer give us more options. Our reason for camping is to get outside and enjoy nature not to sit around in our trailer entertaining guests. Other than eating and sleeping we don't spend much time in our 19 and in the three years we've owned her we have never encountered a rainy day so no need to hunker down inside. I'm 5'10" and my wife is 5'4" and we find the bed in the 19 to be most comfortable. A substantial upgrade over sleeping on the ground in a tent. In fact we invite our two large dogs to come join us at daybreak and all four of us snuggle up without a problem.

So rather than tell you that you have to go bigger or smaller or wet or dry or two holding tanks versus one or two axles rather than 1, etc. I'd suggest you do some serious thinking about what a typical camping trip for you would look like and then design your purchase to meet that need.

Here is an example of where defining your purpose can help clarify your needs.

Someone recently posted a thread stating that they were "embarrassed" because their new Airstream didn't have a color HD display for the rear view camera. Now if I had purchased my Airstream to impress those around me at some 5 star resort then I would agree this is a problem. However my reason for having a rear view camera is to avoid backing into a stump, tree or picnic table and I don't need to spend extra $$ on a color HD display to meet that need.

One other thing to consider is the maintenance and upkeep. Whether you plan on doing it yourself or hiring it done, in my experience the bigger the trailer the more things you have to deal with. Our daughter and her husband have a 31' FC and the amount of time they have to spend cleaning and doing maintenance is far greater that what our little 19 requires. I actually enjoy a certain amount of cleaning, polishing, problem solving, replacing rivets, etc. but that is not why I bought my Airstream.

[hovr]

Originally Posted by KelloggKid

Take any generality type comments with a grain of salt. For everyone who tells you that you MUST go bigger you will find someone who is glad they didn't. And for everyone who tells you that two adults can't possibly enjoy a good night sleep in the bed of a 19' you will find someone like my wife and I who do just fine. Same with wet bath versus dry, etc.

What is truly important is that you do a good job of defining what "camping" means to you. Where are you likely to camp? What kind of weather conditions are you likely to encounter? How far from home are you likely to go and for how long? Do you like to entertain or more inclined to go for a hike in the woods?

My wife and I went through the same process as you and settled on the 19'. For us the deciding factors were the wet bath and the size of the refrigerator. We almost went with a 20 due to the large kitchen area but then realized that while we love to cook at home that's now how we spend our time when camping. A typical camping trip for us is 3-7 days in duration and the fridge on the 16 just seemed a little too small and we do like the separate shower so finally settle on the 19. We prefer out of the way forest locations to glamping at some fancy resort so the smaller length trailer give us more options. Our reason for camping is to get outside and enjoy nature not to sit around in our trailer entertaining guests. Other than eating and sleeping we don't spend much time in our 19 and in the three years we've owned her we have never encountered a rainy day so no need to hunker down inside. I'm 5'10" and my wife is 5'4" and we find the bed in the 19 to be most comfortable. A substantial upgrade over sleeping on the ground in a tent. In fact we invite our two large dogs to come join us at daybreak and all four of us snuggle up without a problem.

So rather than tell you that you have to go bigger or smaller or wet or dry or two holding tanks versus one or two axles rather than 1, etc. I'd suggest you do some serious thinking about what a typical camping trip for you would look like and then design your purchase to meet that need.

Here is an example of where defining your purpose can help clarify your needs.

Someone recently posted a thread stating that they were "embarrassed" because their new Airstream didn't have a color HD display for the rear view camera. Now if I had purchased my Airstream to impress those around me at some 5 star resort then I would agree this is a problem. However my reason for having a rear view camera is to avoid backing into a stump, tree or picnic table and I don't need to spend extra $$ on a color HD display to meet that need.

One other thing to consider is the maintenance and upkeep. Whether you plan on doing it yourself or hiring it done, in my experience the bigger the trailer the more things you have to deal with. Our daughter and her husband have a 31' FC and the amount of time they have to spend cleaning and doing maintenance is far greater that what our little 19 requires. I actually enjoy a certain amount of cleaning, polishing, problem solving, replacing rivets, etc. but that is not why I bought my Airstream.

I went with 16' but I agree with all you said - you really have to think how you are going to use it. A person that live in trailer full time most likely would give a very different advice than someone only does weekend trips.

[JTD]

We owned a 16' for about a year. Sold it and purchased a 19'.

The few feet made a huge difference. I did not like the RB bed configuration in the 16'. Too claustrophobic for me. It is much easier to get in and out of the 19' CB. For 2 of us, the 19' works well. A 5 1/2 week trip to Alaska over the Alaska Hwy in 2019 was a test. I'd do it again tomorrow. It was great.
When I bought the 19' the dealer told me he sees a lot of people that wish they purchased their 2nd AS first. Good luck. You'll have a blast.

[Dennis C]

Good advice above. It doesn’t matter what size Airstream you buy; there will always be somebody who argues that you should go bigger. When people think about buying a 23-footer, people tell them to buy a 25-footer. When people consider buying a 25-footer, people tell them to buy a 27-footer. Buy the one that works best for you.

[TikiRoom]

We have a 22 sport and are using this for the exact same purpose. It fits 2 and the dog comfortably. We have even slept 5 during a nasty wind and rain storm. It was tight but it worked. We find the 22 can go anywhere. It gets harder to find rv spots in parks with larger sizes. But the 22 seems to be the sweet spot.

[Flat_twin]

Originally Posted by LNBright

While your BMW X5 is listed for up to 7700lbs, the two other numbers you need to look at are tongue weight (also called hitch weight) and your payload, ie, all the stuff in the vehicle (people, pets, plus the tongue weight). Your BMW has an allowable tongue weight of 600lbs? Let's look at some weights:
https://www.airstream.com/travel-tra...,caravel--22fb
I just grabbed the 22' Caravel, then the 23ft and 25ft Flying Clouds for an example...
The 22ft (which is still a single axle) has a tongue weight of 525lbs, so that's okay, but then the 23ft CB has a tongue weight of 654lbs, which goes over; and the 25ft is 837lbs, and is a lot over, not just a little. (Now, to be accurate, if you switch layouts from the 23CB to the 23FB, the 23FB has a lower tongue weight of 467lbs.... something to keep in mind, that in the same length, a change of floorplans can change the way it rides.)
I don't know what a BMW X5 payload is, but, when you take that 600lbs out of it (or whatever your tongue weight ends up being), and you account for all passengers, you might not have much payload left (if any). Something else to check.

Good luck....

Leslie has a very good point here. There's more to selecting a tow vehicle than towing capacity. Payload for the X5 is 871 lbs. Payload includes all passengers, cargo and trailer tongue weight. The trailers you are considering have 500 lbs tongue weight minimum. Actual tongue weights are typically higher than the mfg suggests. IF 500 lbs tongue weight is accurate you're left with 371 lbs for everyone in the car and their cargo. The X5 is not a good candidate as a tow vehicle here. Weight distribution hitches do not increase a vehicles payload capacity, they restore steering characteristics and keep the front axle from lifting so much when the load is placed on the hitch. You really need a larger vehicle with a full frame and a torquey engine.

[farafield]

My thoughts about this are that there are subjective things and there are more objective things that you should be made aware of, especially if you are new to this. Your budget, your willingness to rough it more than glamp, your tolerance for being in a tighter space vs. inflexibility in this area, the layout (some prefer FB's some prefer RB's for example) are examples of more subjective things. The more objective things are the tanks. If you are boon docking more, will you need the extra water and waste tank space? Will you requite showering inside? How will you clean dishes etc.? How will you pee and poop? I love my 16 for many reasons but I would think 4 people using the waste tank for everything would fill it pretty quickly. You may need extra batteries/solar depending on how dependent you are on the systems: fridge, lights, heat/air, stove. Might you bring a tent for extra living space? The 16 is very maneuverable, easier to store, easier to maintain just because there is less of everything. Do you have time to "mess with" it? And, as I'm sure people have said, be careful about that tow weight.

[kmrice]

My wife and I love our 2021 Caravel 16. It’s a dream to tow; we hardly know it’s there behind our Silverado. We’re ex-sailers and used to wet baths, so we’re fine with ours; others might not be. We’re very glad we got the Caravel rather than the Bambi, especially for the ducted AC.

That said, while the 16 is cozy for us, we really wouldn’t want to be sharing it with two children. For that, we’d go with the 20, mainly because it has a much bigger kitchen. Also, the tankage on the 16 works for us, if we are careful, but I think it would be problematical for four people.

Whatever you get, seriously consider upgrading to lithium batteries and a second solar panel. With the electric fridge on our Caravel, we can’t get through an entire night without running the stock batteries below 50% charge, which damages them.

[freeski1057]

We bought a Nest last year which is 16’7” and I would concur with almost everyone else that this size will be too small for four people. Two works well for us. It’s a huge step up from a tent! But it’s not spacious by any means. I tow with a Tacoma which is a 6 cylinder and it does fine. The issue is whether your BMW will be adequate for a 19 foot trailer with four people and all the gear. I personally would try not to exceed 70% of the rated towing capacity if even that much.

[aircampr]

Crandell5,

There is ample food for thought in this thread. I can add that we started with a 19' and towed it with an X5 with no towing issues.

Charlie

[Piggy Bank]

Things to consider

We started out like you thinking we would want a 16, maybe a 19 or 20. We actually bought a 22 sport for our first AS because a great deal on a lightly used one came up when we were shopping. We were very happy with that trailer for 2 adults for a longer trip, or 3 adults for weekends. Though we tried, it did NOT sleep 4 adults. NOTE this was a 2015 model--the new ones are wider and you may be able to sleep a 4th person on the floor now. We did a trip with our adult kids to Yellowstone and GTNP and they had a second vehicle and tent, etc. Well then don't you know there was a wolf in the campground and they didn't want to sleep in the tent. Or it got super cold and they were freezing in the tent. In any event, it DID NOT work for 4 adults to sleep in that 22. Ask my husband. HE ended up sleeping in the tent.


If you can only (due to tow vehicle or other limits) have a single axel trailer, then I would get the one that you and your spouse would prefer for just the 2 of you on trips. Probably the 20 or 22. The 22 has the widest bed at 54 inches, the 20 has no doubt the best kitchen.

But if you can swing it, I would definitely get into the larger trailers for 4 people if you can.

Also--when you are doing all the calculations about weights and payloads, if your kids are old enough to drive, consider a second vehicle vs a larger tow vehicle. We feel it is a better use of resources to keep our Tundra to tow our 27 and have the kids drive their own fuel efficient car on long family trips than for us to trade in our perfectly good and paid for truck for a new ¾ ton that would get worse milage all the time.

[steilkurve]

Originally Posted by Crandell5

Lots of great info for me to consider !!

You now have me thinking maybe I should focus on the bigger ones! the original reason why I thought about the 16 is simply because it looks so small and convenient... but the more I research it the more I wonder if perhaps a 16 could be too small and something larger would actually be more what we need. One reason why I was looking at the small trailers is that I thought that was all I could pull but in researching the trailer hitch for my car I realize that my TV it’s actually capable of pulling something larger probably up to a 23 foot flying cloud.

Our till vehicle is a in-line six turbo charged to BMW X5. I’m going to have a hitch installed - there is one for our car called a stealth hitch / invisihitch - It installs like a normal trailer hitch but the ball is removable so when you take the ball off everything is concealed on the bumper... according to the literature it’s rated to pull a gross vehicle weight of 7700 lbs and a tongue weight if 600 lbs. our car has the optional air suspension in the rear and it’s self leveling... Which from what I’ve read is a benefit for towing...

Anyway I’ve been reading about the weights of the various trailers and it looks like from my reading that any of the Bambi or Caravel trailers would fall within the capacity of my tow vehicle and honestly the low and flying cloud would as well.

If I had the ability to tell something larger than a 16 or 19 foot or maybe I would consider it I was initially thinking that my vehicle will only be able to accommodate the small trailers but now I’m thinking I could probably go slightly larger.

I’m wondering if for a beginner there would be a tremendous difference noticeable between pulling something that’s 16 feet versus 19 feet versus even something larger like 22 or 23 I am I going to really notice a big difference or is it going to essentially feel the same or am I missing something and putting a 16 foot trailer will be drastically different than pulling at 22 or 23??

I can see that if I had something slightly larger it might end up being future proved in that as we get more into the lifestyle and want to go on longer trips will have more options available and have a capacity to do longer trips and have more space

I guess for some reason having something little like 16 feet made it seem like it would be easier to just hook up and go compared to something bigger but maybe that’s not really true.

I have thought about the storage aspect and I’m fortunate to have a relative that lives about 20 minutes away who has a several acre property and would allow me to store my trailer there for free. It will be outdoors but it will be within a fenced property and safe.

The wife and I are going to head over to the airstream dealer we actually live a few miles away from a dealership it would be safe and protected and I would not be spending a lot of money on storage fees.

I thought a lot about how we would be using it and the confusing part is thst it kind of depends. I think in the short term most of our trips will be very short - - two or three days - and will probably be spending more time at national parks or small local campsites some of them do have hook ups for RVs and trailers. But they will definitely be places that we would want to go to where we might not have access to all of the amenities and all the hook ups. Having something slightly larger they could stay off the grid for two or three days without worrying about tanks filling up would be nice

Right now our kids are teenagers and so I could see us bringing them with us in the short term but in the long term - all will be in college - one already is - I can foresee that the trailer is going to eventually be something that my wife and I are traveling by ourselves without the kids. If we did go on a longer trip like a couple weeks or even a month it would be nice to have more space.

Is there any reason I’m not aware of we are having something like 16 feet or 19 feet is actually better than a slightly larger unit like 22 or 23 feet? Are there substantial numbers of spots or spaces that will fit a 16 or 19 foot trailer that you can’t fit in something bigger and therefore the small trailers have some advantage I’m not aware of or is there some drastic difference in how they tow ??

The wife and I are going to head over to the airstream dealer we actually live a few miles away from a dealership so we can go walk around the inside of them and look at them and get an actual real life perspective of what it would be like to be in one.

Thx!

We have a 22FB and it works for the two of us on our own. We love the full bath and the 54’’ bed. When our teenagers come along, which is rare, it kinda works but is a tight squeeze. I definitely couldn’t see ourselves with the kids in anything smaller. If I had to do it again, I’d go 23FB as a minimum for the space. I’d also go Caravel or above over Bambi for the quieter AC and inverter.

[sepohl]

There is a lot of good input in the thread already, but I will share my experience.

Tow vehicle is a 2016 X5, it’s a great tow vehicle. I put a Stealth Hitch on and am very happy with it. I use the Echo as a break controller and have had no problems with it either. Make sure to put the OEM wiring harness on, this will enable the car to recognize the trailer when connected and interface properly with the BMW electronics / systems.

BMW does not recommend weight distribution and this has not been an issue for us. I have never encountered a sway issue either with a our 19 foot trailer. It does take a bit of work to meet all of the specifications, the biggest issue is load capacity after deducting the hitch weight, which does get to 600 when loaded, especially if I fill my fresh water holding tank which is in the front. I have found that you can put almost everything in the trailer, being careful to balance the weight over the axles or just in front. We also do not carry a generator or other heavy stuff, only clothing, food, camp chairs, basic tools/accessories, etc.

We have a 19CB 2015 International which I found used in 2019. We are a family or 4 with two teenagers now 16 (son) and 18 (daughter), plus our 50lb labradoodle. We mostly camp in state parks, thus usually don’t have sewer hookup at the site.

When we purchased out 19, we also looked at a new 16ft. The 16 really just felt small inside and since our dog sleeps on the floor, the extra space, while small, just made a difference.

The other is the separate shower, in a campground we use the bath house to shower, thus the shower stall can be used to store clothes or bins of food, or we also will put a bin in there for the dirty clothes. We have an outdoor shower which I will use often, easy to cleanup with a swimsuit on.

My wife and I sleep comfortably in the CB and I am 6’ 220 lbs. In nice whether my son will often sleep outside in a hammock, however since we also do some winter camping both kids will sleep opposite head to toe on the dinette bed. In the mornings it can be crowded, but that’s why you get up and start a nice morning campfire and enjoy the outdoors.

The separate tanks make a huge difference, I have drydocked for a week and not filled the black tank, the gray tank fills quickly, usually in 3 days, mainly from cooking and dishes. Thus, have had to manage the gray tank by dumping into a 5 gallon bucket and dumping it safely somewhere.

The 19CB works good for our family, it has a bit more floor space than the 16. A separate shower, good for a shower or additional storage, an outdoor shower, storage in the bumper, sink outside the bathroom, in summary more flexibility to adapt to the camping situation.

[Mighty Mite]

So many great messages here. But as always, has to do with each person needs, money, tow unit, hitch weight, available cargo capacity in pounds, and a real BIG Etc.

We have had our 2021 16' Caravel for 2 months and 4 trips of 3-7 days. Tow unit is a Jeep Gladiator Overland. Max 600 lbs on the hitch, Max 6,000 lbs towing, 1035 lbs cargo capacity.

Airstream lists hitch weight as 490 lbs, actual hitch weight is 560 lbs with 25% water, NO fluids in 30 gal combo tank. And min. items aboard trailer.

WE have found the combo 30 gal tank works very well for the 2 of us. Washing dishes with out side shower, using campground facilities (only state, local or federal). Never used more than 70% of capacity.

One point we really like is that mixing the gray water with the black water, makes dumping the mixture really EASY. All the gray water with suds cleans out the tank in the dump process.

I think the most important part in this blog is understanding what your REAL hitch weight will be. Airstream numbers are lower than actual weights. Read in the Forum part of this site, under towing, you will find a wealth of information.

Bob

[hovr]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mite

So many great messages here. But as always, has to do with each person needs, money, tow unit, hitch weight, available cargo capacity in pounds, and a real BIG Etc.

We have had our 2021 16' Caravel for 2 months and 4 trips of 3-7 days. Tow unit is a Jeep Gladiator Overland. Max 600 lbs on the hitch, Max 6,000 lbs towing, 1035 lbs cargo capacity.

Airstream lists hitch weight as 490 lbs, actual hitch weight is 560 lbs with 25% water, NO fluids in 30 gal combo tank. And min. items aboard trailer.

WE have found the combo 30 gal tank works very well for the 2 of us. Washing dishes with out side shower, using campground facilities (only state, local or federal). Never used more than 70% of capacity.

One point we really like is that mixing the gray water with the black water, makes dumping the mixture really EASY. All the gray water with suds cleans out the tank in the dump process.

I think the most important part in this blog is understanding what your REAL hitch weight will be. Airstream numbers are lower than actual weights. Read in the Forum part of this site, under towing, you will find a wealth of information.

Bob

Fellow 2021 Caravel 16RB owner here, glad to hear you also enjoy the 16'. One thing I want to point out is that on west coast, most state parks prohibit *any* grey water dumping - Here in Washington state, this include outdoor shower, dish washing or even wash your fruits. As much as I like the 16', in such case the combined tank really isn't a plus.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by hovr

One thing I want to point out is that on west coast, most state parks prohibit *any* grey water dumping - Here in Washington state, this include outdoor shower, dish washing or even wash your fruits.

So you can't even really use your outdoor shower at all? Not even for washing sand off your feet or mud off of the dog?