POR-15 products and frame prep

[1959newbie]

I've got my 1959 Overlander stripped to the frame now, hope I can get some quick answers before I go into the city tomorrow afternoon for supplies.

Can anyone give me some idea of how much Marine-Clean, Metal-Ready, and POR-15 I'll need to clean and treat my 26' frame? Are two coats of POR-15 needed, then one of topcoat?

Also, what have you found to be the best way to get rust and paint off the frame? I've worn out one thick, stiff wire wheel on my grinder, it seemed to work well in the beginning, less so as it got chewed away. Wire cup brush on a drill does OK in some areas. Tried a big loose wire wheel on drill, it did nothing. Just how bare of rust & paint do you have to get the steel?

I have to restock with some type of tool tomorrow, looking for suggestions.

Thanks!

[markdoane]

Start with a quart each of the POR-15 and topcoat, and a quart each of the Marine Clean and Metal Prep.

After that, order the small cans in kit form, so you don't have a large open can left over. They deliver pretty quick if you don't have a local distributor.

Call them to find out if there is a local vendor.

I found out after a few wire wheels and a few bags of black diamond sandblasting that mineral spirits will get a lot of the paint off. Use lots of rags.

Definitely use two coats. The paint is too expensive to risk having it fail because you didn't follow directions.

[Over59]

I also have a 59 overlander I'm doing a shell off on. http://www.airforums.com/forum...9-a-10709.html

I had the frame sand blasted. One heavy coat of POR 15. In fact I think they discourage extra coats. I think I used about 2 quarts. I used black which flows alot more than the aluminum gloss color. Read the POR-15 site for instructions. I have alot of metal ready left so a quart may do you. Good Luck. I hope you made templates of the floor. Also, put the belly pan on before the shell.

[InsideOut]

I always understood that POR-15 actually adheres better to rusty metal than perfectly new. It does need to be clean, and loose chunks removed, but not rust-free. I only did our tongue, step & bumper as I didn't have to go through a frame off restoration, but it has held up great for the 5 years since I've done it. Good luck...and remember it stains your skin, so paint neatly! I wore gloves, but I still ended up with a silver handprint on my thigh for over a week.

Shari

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Over59

. . One heavy coat of POR 15. In fact I think they discourage extra coats.

The directions say to apply a minimum of two thin coats, three if a marine or industrial environment.

[Jim & Susan]

Lynne, I sandblasted the frame on my 27' Overlander, so I can't help with that part. But I've read here that you just need to scuff it up and get rid of the rust flakes. The instructions say don't put POR over existing paint.

One Quart of metal ready should be plenty. It took two quarts of POR-15 to do mine and I had a bit left over. (not much, tho) I followed Mark's suggetstion and did two coats. Coat number two goes on a lot easier than coat one.

You only need to top coat anything that will be exposed to sunlight.

If you need help sleeping tonight, take a look at my thread. Skip ahead to about October of last year. There's a better explanation there.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...nte-15132.html

Jim

[1959newbie]

Thanks for the quick responses!

I have one other question on this topic: I'm doing this shell-on, so I'm wondering if anyone has any good tricks for cleaning and painting in the tight areas around the edges?

[Jim & Susan]

Wellllll, I'm not sure how a '59 is put together, but the '73 is made in such a way that you can GENTLY move the outer walls around to paint. It's in my thread (above). Somebody with '59 experience will have a better idea.

Jim

[Alumaholic]

POR-15 is designed to paint over rust...
Metal Ready is designed to make POR-15 adhere to metal that is not rusted...
If you wire brush rusty, oxidized steel, you do not need Metal Ready...
If you sand blast, you do need Metal Ready...
Two coats of POR-15 are plenty... More is not necessarily better...

A top coat is necessary only for POR-15 that will be exposed to the damaging UV rays of direct sunlight...
Hence, no top coat required or recommended for those frame members between floor and belly pan.

Have fun trying to get it off your skin!

[1959newbie]

Well, after losing a month due to 1st welder flaking out on me 3 weeks in a row, having to find 2nd welder, and having to make an unscheduled trip to deal with my octogenerian parents, I'm ready to POR-15 the frame tomorrow!

Because it's a holiday weekend, I thought I better find out if I need to go get a respirator today. Those of you who applied it with a brush, how bad are the fumes? I'll be outdoors, obviously, but the shell is still attached to my frame, so things are somewhat enclosed. Also, I'm pretty sensitive to such things.

Will open windows, no floor and an exhaust fan be enough?

[CanoeStream]

Hello Lynne -- Ahh, my favorite part of Texas! I've got family in Blanco, Austin, Alamo Heights (S.A.) and College Station. The Blanco folk are Strayhorns distantly related to Tejas polly-tics.

I have used organic vapor respirators and it is amazing how comfortable they fit and how little you can smell. You must always assure adequate oxygen supply so your windows-open and fan plan sounds good. I do not recall that the Por-15 was so obnoxious that I used the respirator. I definitely used it for the solvent/volatile Rot Doctor!

Local sources? Check out www.homedepot.com, enter respirator in the search field -- two AOSafety products show up -- now just if they have it in your local store. I've honestly seen these in any good woodworking store or paint department. Maybe even an auto supply (paint section). Cheap insurance!

[pinkflamingoes]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I always understood that POR-15 actually adheres better to rusty metal than perfectly new. It does need to be clean, and loose chunks removed, but not rust-free.
Shari

This is true, in my experience. It "likes" rust, but anything loose that you could easily scrape off will keep it from adhering to the frame, so don't get too detailed on removing the rusty surface, but definitely do get off the loose stuff that can flake off. You'll just be doing unnecessary work. Find a long sleeved teeshirt and some long pants that you are willing to throw out! Rubbing POR15 off of your skin with a pumice stone works...but a layer of skin definitely comes off with it...so you're stuck with black paint or something that looks like open sores...better to not "get any on ya".

Fumes aren't too bad if you're not inside a building but if it bothers your lungs, take the extra step and get something to cover your mouth. Can't hurt to be careful.

[CanoeStream]

New steel tends to have a layer of oil on it and that needs to be removed.

For restoration I don't think you could go wrong preparing a surface to remove loose rust, then treating with Metal Ready. Just the rusty areas develop the phosphate layer IIRC. Then you'd be ready to apply the Por-15. I think the instructions on the can govern recoating within a specified period; otherwise you might have to roughen the surface to give 'tooth' for a second coat to adhere. Remember the Por-15 surface should not be exposed long term to sun without a UV blocking finish.

You don't have to strip previous paint but I'd sure roughen it to provide tooth there too.

Originally Posted by pinkflamingoes

Fumes aren't too bad if you're not inside a building but if it bothers your lungs, take the extra step and get something to cover your mouth. Can't hurt to be careful.

Thank you pink' -- I'd thought of going back over this. I fully agree if there is asthma, respiratory problems or history of sensitivity to fumes.

[ticki2]

Can anyone tell me what Por-15 instructions say about previously painted surfaces ? Thanks

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by ticki2

Can anyone tell me what Por-15 instructions say about previously painted surfaces ? Thanks

In a nutshell, it won't stick.
It's difficult to remember while you're in the middle of using it, but POR-15 isn't paint, and it doesn't adhere to painted surfaces or even unoxidized,clean steel. The new steel I used to patch the floor panels on my rusty old '46 Jeep had to be oxidized with Metal Ready. Even the rusty old Jeep had to be reoxidized with Metal Ready after I had it sand blasted, because POR-15 doesn't like unoxidized, clean steel.
I say again, it isn't paint.

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by klevan

In a nutshell, it won't stick.
Even the rusty old Jeep had to be reoxidized with Metal Ready after I had it sand blasted, because POR-15 doesn't like unoxidized, clean steel.

I found myself asking myself, " Self, are you really spraying this freshly sandblasted Jeep body with Metal Ready and hosing it down with water?"

The outcome of course was a totally oxidized (rusted) Jeep body, except now it was now oxidized in every nook and cranny where before it was only rusted in places.

Professional paint and body people were incredulous when I told them about the process, because as I learned too late there are far superior methods of dealing with sand blasted steel.

POR-15 is for painting over rust (POR), get it?

[leefields]

if you were buying one or the other but could not have both....

for cleaning up the frame and paint with a rustoleme (sp) product....

sandblaster or needle gun.......

which would be better....

thanks

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by klevan

POR-15 is for painting over rust (POR), get it?

Yea, but....I sandblasted my frame. Most of the frame, I did a "shell on" frame resto. It worked out very well. I sandblasted first. Then "painted" on the Metal Ready, hosed it off. Let it sit overnight to completely dry, then put two coats of POR-15 over the whole thing. For the parts that I couldn't sandblast, I simply scraped with a wire brush, cleaned a bit, then painted the POR.

It was a pain to work with as I brush painted everything (i.e., the ENTIRE frame), but I don't have the skills (or money) to spray POR.

I think the POR product line is a wonderful choice for us "home hobbyists", if I can use that term. The POR folks made it easy for us, relative to the job at hand.

Jim

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

I think the POR product line is a wonderful choice for us "home hobbyists", if I can use that term. The POR folks made it easy for us, relative to the job at hand.

Jim

I agree, Jim. I must have used more than $500 worth of their various products. I love their manifold paint. But for a frame off restoration, where you can sandblast the entire frame to bare metal, I would not use POR-15 again nor would I recommend it for any clean, bare metal application.

I will use it, just as you have, for projects that can't be sand blasted in their entireity.

[Jim & Susan]

Just out of curiousity, what would you use? (Sincerely asked)

JIm