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Old 11-30-2020, 10:32 AM   #1
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1961 24' Tradewind
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Fragile 1960's script emblems (possible reproduction: gauging interest)

We recently bought a '61 TradeWind with a broken script. Obviously, I want to make that right. We also have a '64 Bambi with an intact script, but I was ridiculously careful with it during the trailer's renovation. These cast scrips are quite fragile.


I found a local shop that does water jet cutting. I am looking into the possibility of having my emblem recreated out of aluminum or stainless steel. They charge a minimum fee for the process, but can cut multiple "emblems" for the same set up fee. My lovely wife can do the design work. I would then have extras to sell to the AS community.



My questions:


1) Does this thought process infringe on the Airstream company in any way? (if they reproduced these emblems, I would just buy from them)


2) I have access to "TradeWind" and "Bambi" emblems for tracing/sizing. Would anyone out there be willing to provide me with a rubbing or very clear pictures and detailed dimensions for "Caravel", "Safari", and any other model names I might be missing?



3) Would there be need/interest in this community to have such emblems reproduced? I am sure mine is not the only one that is broken...and the only repro I can find is a plastic "Bambi" emblem on VTS.


Please advise so I can gauge interest and possibly move forward. Thanks for reading-


Ben
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:38 AM   #2
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Examples...

My broken "TradeWind" emblem, a picture of a complete one, and my complete "Bambi" emblem.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:21 PM   #3
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If you rearrange the large AIRSTREAM letters you can spell I ARE SMART
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Old 11-30-2020, 01:26 PM   #4
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Um. OK.



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Originally Posted by Lumatic View Post
If you rearrange the large AIRSTREAM letters you can spell I ARE SMART
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA BAMBI II View Post
We recently bought a '61 TradeWind with a broken script. Obviously, I want to make that right. We also have a '64 Bambi with an intact script, but I was ridiculously careful with it during the trailer's renovation. These cast scrips are quite fragile.


I found a local shop that does water jet cutting. I am looking into the possibility of having my emblem recreated out of aluminum or stainless steel. They charge a minimum fee for the process, but can cut multiple "emblems" for the same set up fee. My lovely wife can do the design work. I would then have extras to sell to the AS community.



My questions:


1) Does this thought process infringe on the Airstream company in any way? (if they reproduced these emblems, I would just buy from them)


2) I have access to "TradeWind" and "Bambi" emblems for tracing/sizing. Would anyone out there be willing to provide me with a rubbing or very clear pictures and detailed dimensions for "Caravel", "Safari", and any other model names I might be missing?



3) Would there be need/interest in this community to have such emblems reproduced? I am sure mine is not the only one that is broken...and the only repro I can find is a plastic "Bambi" emblem on VTS.


Please advise so I can gauge interest and possibly move forward. Thanks for reading-


Ben
Ben -

I'm not sure if it infringes on AS's Trademarks, Patents or Copyrights - but that would be a question to AS & a T/P/C Attorney.

For accurate Repro's - you'll want to get castings or original badges to model from due to the 3D shaping of the old school emblems (rubbings will only be flat 2D). That begs the question of whether or not your local jst cutter can also do shaping for rounded edges etc. (some can, some are just flat bed straight edge capable).

Folks willing to pay more for true metal AL/SS repros will also want more accuracy - especially for those who are also Classic Car resto buffs, who are notorious for accuracy (not the resto-mod & rat rod types, but authentically accurate crowd) - as are many of the Vintage Trailer crowd.

You'll also find that there are subtle differences by year on the badges, so you'll probably need to do research into which were used when, & may find that you'll have several versions of each from the 1930s-70's "vintage era".

Also check directly with Vintage Trailer Supply to make sure that they don't already carry them in aluminum or are planning to do so soon. If not, then ask owner Steve Hington (sp?) by email or phone if he'd be interested in purchasing some to get your production covered.

Otherwise - if no on both above, you can also seek others "in the market" with similar posts to this one at Vintage Camper Trailer Magazine (separate CA entity) website blog (&/or on their Facebook?), Tin Can Tourists, etc. where the vintage trailer types hang out (there are far more new & late model AS owners than vintage owners like you on here from what I can gather).

There are many Vintage AS owners out here in CA with a normally very active Vintage Trailer Rally scene out here pretty much year round & many with multiple events per month & often more than one each weekend (in normal non-CV-19 times of course), as well as for many other Vintage Trailer makes - including the other "Silver Twinkie" AS vintage kin like our 1960 Avion T20. So you could have a wider market for your little side gig doing their badges as well.

PS - Jet-cut or Laser-cut embossed style label plates like those in your pix are another another idea - if your local shop can do partial depth cuts (many cannot), or if they or another shop does the old school etching, as they originally were AFAIK.

PSS - "I ARE SMART" .... never heard that one before, but a little humor can't hurt in these times! We may have to take that up in our Vintage Kin world about the AS crowd, since they're often uppity with us, when we know that our kin are tryly better than their AS's! ;-)

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:56 AM   #6
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I would say there would be some interest. I know you've heard, "Build it and they will come". There is a market for most things Airstream, especially when it comes to vintage trailers where there is not much stock on things.
So I would say go for it, start small and see where it goes.

I've bought a Tradewind placard for mine from VTS, not sure if they had prior authorization from AS to do that, but at least it's possible.
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Ben -

For accurate Repro's - you'll want to get castings or original badges to model from due to the 3D shaping of the old school emblems (rubbings will only be flat 2D). That begs the question of whether or not your local jst cutter can also do shaping for rounded edges etc. (some can, some are just flat bed straight edge capable).

Folks willing to pay more for true metal AL/SS repros will also want more accuracy - especially for those who are also Classic Car resto buffs, who are notorious for accuracy (not the resto-mod & rat rod types, but authentically accurate crowd) - as are many of the Vintage Trailer crowd.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
I appreciate all of your comments, and I will take them to heart. I also "get" your comment about the Classic Car resto buffs. I have two old Corvairs (a van and a truck), and I have done many things to them over the years to keep them presentable and on the road.

I cannot speak for ALL Corvair owners, but for many, it is an affordable yet collectible marque. And for some, but definitely not all, perfection is key.

I am a "close-enough" kind of vintage car and trailer guy. If I can get something that looks right and fools the average passer-by to believe that a part must be the original because it looks right, I am a literal happy camper.

I do not know if the company will be able to do the angled edge you speak of and that I know is there. I know the face of the letters is app. 3/16" wide. A good starting point. Perhaps we go a bit wider, and bevel the edge with a file? I don't know yet, but I do know that it won't need to be exactly perfect for me. Something darn close will look much better than the cracked one that is on there now. And when will a period correct replacement ever turn up?

Perhaps others will understand my point of view. Perhaps not. I may have several made up and hang on to them until I see another Airstreamer in need. Perhaps I can help them to get one step closer to a buttoned-up, complete trailer.

The devil is in the details. I shall continue to investigate those details. I wouldn't begin to research and try to duplicate all of the original variations...but try to get some that would look right over the course of several years of production.

Again, thank you for the feedback.
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:19 PM   #8
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Couple of things to consider.

I used to own a company that made reproduction emblems. Good reproductions require CNC milling, as the bevels are specific. Not many people want to pay for that. Steel (sometimes aluminum) moldscan be made for vacuum casting and metallizing. That also requires volume to be practical.

A good solution is a laser-cut plastic/metal hybrid. The plastic has a black core, but a shiny metallic surface. Those can be cut individually at a very reasonable price. No requirements for a mass order.
I can help with a sample if you'd like to try a design. I have a laser and wouldn't charge to test it out.
Alternately, there's Emblemart.com ( I have no financial interest, just friends with the owner).
Marc


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Old 12-01-2020, 07:31 PM   #9
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Very cool idea to reproduce the AS script/badging. However I am not sure SS is the best idea though. Stainless Steel may cause a galvanic reaction with the aluminum skin over time.

What about a 3D printer that can use metals like aluminum. Still quite expensive, but If you had the original it shouldn't be to hard to find a shop to use a 3D printer to reproduce it in aluminum.

They sure are fragile little things. When I was doing my rebuild, I had the opportunity to have my SAFARI gold plated. I was a nervous wreck until I got it back on the old girl.

I'll be watching the thread progress to see when I can order a spare, to mount on the wall of my shop.

-Dennis
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:17 PM   #10
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This sounds intriguing, Marc. I actually work at a tech high school, and have access to CNC milling machinery and students being trained to use it. This is a possibility I began exploring today with the instructor.


The graphics department has a laser cutting machine, but the teacher says he cannot cut metal. What is this plastic/metal hybrid material you refer to?


I may take you up on a trial. I really only need one script...helping others was a side benefit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkboards View Post
Couple of things to consider.
A good solution is a laser-cut plastic/metal hybrid. The plastic has a black core, but a shiny metallic surface. Those can be cut individually at a very reasonable price. No requirements for a mass order.
I can help with a sample if you'd like to try a design. I have a laser and wouldn't charge to test it out.

Marc
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:20 PM   #11
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Thanks for your encouragement, Dennis. I am hopeful to find some method to produce these. Thanks for the photo of your Safari script! That should be very helpful


I hadn't thought of 3D printers. I did not know they could be used with aluminum. I agree, that would be the material of choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by batman View Post
Very cool idea to reproduce the AS script/badging. However I am not sure SS is the best idea though. Stainless Steel may cause a galvanic reaction with the aluminum skin over time.

What about a 3D printer that can use metals like aluminum. Still quite expensive, but If you had the original it shouldn't be to hard to find a shop to use a 3D printer to reproduce it in aluminum.

They sure are fragile little things. When I was doing my rebuild, I had the opportunity to have my SAFARI gold plated. I was a nervous wreck until I got it back on the old girl.

I'll be watching the thread progress to see when I can order a spare, to mount on the wall of my shop.

-Dennis
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Also check directly with Vintage Trailer Supply to make sure that they don't already carry them in aluminum or are planning to do so soon. If not, then ask owner Steve Hington (sp?) by email or phone if he'd be interested in purchasing some to get your production covered.
Vintage Trailer Supply does have re-pro 'Bambi' emblems...so they may be able to help out with this project as Tom suggested.

Shari

P.S. Here's a link to a picture of our '64 'GlobeTrotter' emblem

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Old 12-01-2020, 08:59 PM   #13
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I can tell you that in reading these forums there seems to be a lot of folks looking for emblems. Kinda rough there are so many different ones.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:42 AM   #14
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Inside out thanks for the image of your Globe Trotter script. We will need one in the future.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA BAMBI II View Post
I appreciate all of your comments, and I will take them to heart. I also "get" your comment about the Classic Car resto buffs. I have two old Corvairs (a van and a truck), and I have done many things to them over the years to keep them presentable and on the road.

I cannot speak for ALL Corvair owners, but for many, it is an affordable yet collectible marque. And for some, but definitely not all, perfection is key.

I am a "close-enough" kind of vintage car and trailer guy. If I can get something that looks right and fools the average passer-by to believe that a part must be the original because it looks right, I am a literal happy camper.

I do not know if the company will be able to do the angled edge you speak of and that I know is there. I know the face of the letters is app. 3/16" wide. A good starting point. Perhaps we go a bit wider, and bevel the edge with a file? I don't know yet, but I do know that it won't need to be exactly perfect for me. Something darn close will look much better than the cracked one that is on there now. And when will a period correct replacement ever turn up?

Perhaps others will understand my point of view. Perhaps not. I may have several made up and hang on to them until I see another Airstreamer in need. Perhaps I can help them to get one step closer to a buttoned-up, complete trailer.

The devil is in the details. I shall continue to investigate those details. I wouldn't begin to research and try to duplicate all of the original variations...but try to get some that would look right over the course of several years of production.

Again, thank you for the feedback.
Ben -

The originals were cast from moulds (with "pot metal" then chromed I think) - so they had rounded edges, which also helped them not catching on washing & buffing rags, people's clothing, & cuts to hands, etc. So it's a practical reason to not have sharp edges.

At least smoothing the edges with the laser or water jet cutting is a good idea at the least, which could be done by hand if in the softer & more workable aluminum.

Yes, some high end 3D printers do print in aluminum & other softer alloys to build up the parts, which mat be the salvation for NOS auto parts for collectors. The Art Center School of Design's automotive design studio director gave us a demo of making 3d printed parts for one of his student's studio project scale model car, at one of our Porsche Club (PCA) car shows on their campus a few years back.

I don't think that SS will have a galvanic reaction with the aluminum skin as Batman noted, but that could vary with the different SS alloys. The AS restorers that I know out here do recco using SS screws in the skins where occasionally removable skin panels are best screwed & not riveted (e.g.: Area 63 Productions - Uwe Salwender, & others).

Being a VW waterboxer H4 owner myself (1988 Westfalia), I'm fully aware of galvanic reactions with their aluminum heads/gaskets/magnesium alloy cases & wrong coolant formula in 1980-86 cars causing head failures within 20-40K miles, which was why we looked only at 1987> when we got ours back in 1988.

As for your being a " 'Vair-head" - Cool! We had Corvairs in our family - including my Great-Aunt's 1960 Monza Coupe, our cousin's Pick-up with which he helped us moving homes back in Pittsburgh, & our family passenger Van - all PA cars (at least initially).

In May 1963 we got a brand new 1963 Greenbriar 8-9 passenger Van that we took our family of 8 out to San Diego that June after school was out, when my Dad changed jobs to out there earlier that year - & trip was well after 1,000 mile or whatever it was break-in period, as my Dad was religious about his cars. I'm pretty sure it was the 95 hp motor version, as best as a then 10 year old can recall (but maybe the 85).

It threw a rod in Texas & hung us up in Midland for a week waiting for a new engine (6 kids 2-10 years old drove my folks crazy that week) - but the new engine lasted with no problems for both local driving & our 6,000+ mile annual summer round trip back to Pittsburgh up to 1967 (my Dad suspected a faulty build on the 1st motor). By then we needed a bigger vehicle for 6 now much bigger kids & teens. So Dad trading it in & got a `67 Chevy C20 Camper Special with a 327 ci V8 4BBl AT pick-up with a truck bed camper for our long trips & local camping, but gas went from 30 mpg +/- down to 7-10 mph!

I've seen one owned locally in the same colors as ours at our local Orange Plaza Car Show, but determined chatting with the current owners that it wasn't our family Greenbriar. A Chevy Greenbriar purchased in Pittsburgh PA then immediately driven to San Diego & SoCal for the rest of it's life would be a pretty easy to confirm find - if it's still on the road somewhere.

I also tried to find a non-thrashed 65-69 Corvair Corsa or Monza for my first car in Fall `69, but they were all oil-burners - so I ended up with a `68 Opel Kadett 1.1L. I'd love to find a nice one in coupe or convertible flavor today, but lack garage space to keep it here.

Later I did get a distant cousin 1973 Porsche 914-2.0 as 2nd owner back in 1975, which I drove a decade, then garaged it after being hit in a parking structure after a rolling resto, which I'm in a sloooow resto due to competing house resto work. Like Corvairs - 914s have been an affordable marque to collect, but they've been "discovered" by the air-cooled Porsche set in recent years, so they too are on the price rise curve up to the CV-19 thing.

Corvairs are GREAT cars & highly underrated - and IMHO the best body style of all Chevy's cars of the late `60's with the later 1965-69 coupes & convertibles! Yenkos were interesting & a local PGH fave, but I didn't care for the C-pillar fins tacked onto the already clean coupes, trying to emulate the Mauliby/Chevelle Coupes.

Nader was dead wrong about the Corvairs - & the VW Bug had the same swing axles with a higher center of gravity - so realistically more prone to the alleged rollover risks, as were many other bigger & heavier USA cars of the day - but he needed some scapegoat to become famous!

Good Luck on your Corvairs & AS projects!

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 12-04-2020, 12:51 PM   #16
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Time is always short, but I threw together an Airstream graphic just as a sample, since I don't have a vector file and Airstream never really made a cool emblem!

This is the acrylic material I mentioned. It's made by Rowmark. I used a laser to cut it. The limitations of this material (if you could call it that) are that the metallic surface is flat, and resembles brushed stainless steel. However, it is very flexible and holds up well after years of use.
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:03 PM   #17
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oops, photos!
After making this, I'm suddenly motivated to design a really cool Airstream logo...
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:51 PM   #18
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That looks pretty good! It would suit my purposes. Where can I find this material? How is it sold (ie. how much would I need to purchase?)

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T
This is the acrylic material I mentioned. It's made by Rowmark. I used a laser to cut it. The limitations of this material (if you could call it that) are that the metallic surface is flat, and resembles brushed stainless steel. However, it is very flexible and holds up well after years of use.
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Old 12-05-2020, 10:59 AM   #19
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You can get a quarter sheet, maybe 12x24", but I don't know minimums. It's been a while since I last bought that material. Try Johnson Plastics?
Yes, I really like it. Emblems I made several years ago still look good on cars here in the Hawaii sun.
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:49 AM   #20
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Hey Ben
Hope you and family are well. My Bambi II is missing the "II" so I would be interested in a new one. Thanks again for all the posts on your Bambi restoration.
Keep us posted on this and have a Merry Christmas.
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