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12-16-2011, 01:35 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka
, California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
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$1200 Aircraft Sealant on New AS?
We signed our names to the purchase contract. The next question out of the dealer's mouth was, "Would you like to buy the $1200 aircraft sealant to protect your trailer from filiform corrosion?"
I laughed nervously thinking he was kidding. I mean, when you spend 60 grand for a new trailer, you somewhat expect the manufacturer has built it to last, right? Wrong.
I decided that shelling out $1200 bucks without some consideration would be a bad idea. Now, I am doing the consideration.
The claim is that this will protect the trailer for 5 years from this corrosion, but it is NOT guaranteed to do so. Yer kiddin', right? Wrong again. No guarantee.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet that it is a $10 can of some goop that is probably already $9 over priced. Anyone know what this is? Has any other new buyer been offered this? Has anyone spent the $1200?
I was really excited to have a new AS. Now however, I am feeling a bit taken in by the manufacturer. If you build a product where aluminum is the primary material, wouldn't you take every conceivable measure to do it properly?
I'm not sure why I didn't read this section before purchasing. Maybe I didn't want to know? Maybe I let my enthusiasm cloud my decision? I wish I had the opposite feeling - - that I have just bought the greatest thing going, made by brilliant engineers.
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12-16-2011, 01:51 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2010 27' FB Classic
N/A
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,809
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Just use a regular over the counter wax or sealer same as you would use on a car that had clearcoat paint. Do it yourself and save a bundle.
__________________
"There’s two kinds of people, them goin’ somewhere and them goin’ nowhere. And’s that what’s true". -Ben Rumson
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12-16-2011, 02:01 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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I thought new Airstreams came already clearcoated direct from the factory. If so why would it need additional highpriced "sealant" applied. Sounds like typical new car sales tactics. I can see using a good wax with UV protection or a product like "303 Products Aerospace Protectant". I use in on my jeep and boats.
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12-16-2011, 02:06 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,971
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Tell him to drop dead! I'd even go buy the Airstream somewhere else for that kind of treatment (trying to sell you that.)
__________________
"If it can't be reduced, reused, repaired, rebuilt, refurbished, refinished, resold, recycled or composted
then it should be restricted, redesigned or removed from production."
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12-16-2011, 02:08 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Sorry, it is a trailer, a very good one at that, but not perfect, and not a work of art, or an engineering masterpiece. It is not an aircraft built to withstand every conceivable force or thing that may happen to it. It is a very good trailer though, by most standards.
But seams do leak, floors do get water in and on them and rot out, and corrosion does happen.
And no, I doubt that a $1200 "protection" is going to buy you anything that will significantly change things.
BTW, I ripped a new one to my Toyota dealer who tried to sell me a $2700 extended warrantee package to my Camry Hybrid. I told them, "You just sold me a $30k car and now are telling me it is a piece of crap and will need lots of expensive service. You sure know how to make your customers happy with their purchase".
Airstreams are virtually handmade, to very good, but not great standards and with very good, but not great engineering, and with very good, but not great materials. Everything has a cost and a limit to what can be sold at a price that anyone would pay. Airstreams are not immune to those pressures. For a million bucks though, boy, could it be something! Grin.
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12-16-2011, 02:09 PM
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#6
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2 Rivet Member
2014 28' Land Yacht
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 36
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Too bad you're not a betting man, because you would have won this one. Unfortunately, it appears to be true that the newer Airstreams are prone to filiform corrosion. It is the consequence of using coated aluminum, to the best of my understanding. I think that the stuff that they use (I can't remember the name of it at the moment) is available for less than $100 for enough to treat an entire Airstream. I, too, was offered this option, but I chose to decline, especially since it appears that the filiform corrosion needs sufficiently high humidity to develop, and I live in the desert. Considering where you live, it may be more of an issue for you, but filiform seems to be fairly simple to treat and stop if you are vigilant.
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12-16-2011, 02:10 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2002 25' Safari
1977 20' Argosy 20
northern valley
, new jersey
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 532
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wow, $1200 and no guarantee!
that $1200 would buy an awful lot of
Walbernize RV Super Seal or
Griots Garage Paint Sealant
and probably a good bit of labor to apply them once or twice a year, too!
I'd respectfully decline your dealer's offer....
__________________
Joseph & Gabrielle
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci.
WBCCI 2087 - AIR 3144 - TAC-NJ2
https://defendwally.org/
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12-16-2011, 02:15 PM
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#8
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Where to start.
Filiform corrosion is a huge deal in aviation and is by no means a solved problem. It is certainly not a problem that lends itself to "miracle products" because the inherent nature of filiform is that it attacks the surface of the aluminum where coatings bond. The aviation industry by and large uses Dupont Imron and similar catalyzed polyurethane products. Though these are excellent coatings I doubt if they are any better at preventing filiform than whatever Airstream is using.
Airstreams are clearcoated at the factory. To apply a product (were such a thing to exist) that prevents filiform, would require removal of the existing clearcoat. This is a labor intensive process that would cost far more than $1200.
Your dealer is trying to rip you off.
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12-16-2011, 02:29 PM
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#9
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,156
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I would agree with the previous posts as far as applying some $1200 miracle with no guarantee. But, having experienced accelerated filiform corrosion while living a mile from the beach in Ft. Lauderdale, I would suggest that you pay more attention to washing off the salt air residue and keeping your unit waxed.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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12-16-2011, 03:35 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Sealing any exposed edges will help. The corrosion starts at the edges where panels have been cut and there are uncoated exposed edges. The corrosion starts any place there is no clear coat and it eats its way between the aluminum and the coating.
Perry
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12-16-2011, 03:51 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114
Sealing any exposed edges will help. The corrosion starts at the edges where panels have been cut and there are uncoated exposed edges. The corrosion starts any place there is no clear coat and it eats its way between the aluminum and the coating.
Perry
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Bingo. They aren't clear coated at the factory (JC), the coating comes on the full sized sheets of aluminum they buy.
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12-16-2011, 04:03 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
Central
, Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114
Sealing any exposed edges will help. The corrosion starts at the edges where panels have been cut and there are uncoated exposed edges. The corrosion starts any place there is no clear coat and it eats its way between the aluminum and the coating.
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Would the same go for edges of all of the rivet holes?
I would also take the $1200 savings and buy some Acryl-R or your favorite sealant of choice to make sure all of those seams are well sealed.
Tom
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12-16-2011, 04:40 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2002 25' Safari
Fountain Inn
, South Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy
We signed our names to the purchase contract. The next question out of the dealer's mouth was, "Would you like to buy the $1200 aircraft sealant to protect your trailer from filiform corrosion?"
I laughed nervously thinking he was kidding. I mean, when you spend 60 grand for a new trailer, you somewhat expect the manufacturer has built it to last, right? Wrong.
I decided that shelling out $1200 bucks without some consideration would be a bad idea. Now, I am doing the consideration.
The claim is that this will protect the trailer for 5 years from this corrosion, but it is NOT guaranteed to do so. Yer kiddin', right? Wrong again. No guarantee.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet that it is a $10 can of some goop that is probably already $9 over priced. Anyone know what this is? Has any other new buyer been offered this? Has anyone spent the $1200?
I was really excited to have a new AS. Now however, I am feeling a bit taken in by the manufacturer. If you build a product where aluminum is the primary material, wouldn't you take every conceivable measure to do it properly?
I'm not sure why I didn't read this section before purchasing. Maybe I didn't want to know? Maybe I let my enthusiasm cloud my decision? I wish I had the opposite feeling - - that I have just bought the greatest thing going, made by brilliant engineers.
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I believe this is no different than the add-ons that car dealers try to hang you with. I think peace of mind could be had by contacting AS in Jackson Center. I am sure they would tell you to wash the AS a couple of times a year and to Walbernize it a couple of times a year. They would probably also tell you to hose the AS off after a trip to the beach.
They would probably be interested in knowing about a dealer trying to sell you on this notion of $1200 for a treatment to a new AS.
There are many threads on the forum about filiform. I have some filiform on my 10 year old Safari that i have treated with Corrosion X from AS. I would not let it keep you from enjoying your new AS to the maximum.
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12-16-2011, 04:41 PM
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#14
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Addicted
1971 27' Overlander
Currently In: Skowhegan
, ME
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 703
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Doesn't it also happen whenever you have a defect in said clearcoat, like a small scrape, chip, dent, etc?
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12-16-2011, 04:52 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2002 25' Safari
Fountain Inn
, South Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exthemius
Doesn't it also happen whenever you have a defect in said clearcoat, like a small scrape, chip, dent, etc?
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I have read that flaws in the clear coat give it a place to start. The filiform on my AS is mostly where there is dissimilar metal attachments. For example: where the stainless steel front window guard clips are riveted to the aluminum, where the Airstream name plate is attached to the side of the trailer, where the tail lights are attached to the trailer, and where the stove vent cover is attached. Very - very little filiform otherwise. I have used techniques described in other treads to control it.
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12-16-2011, 05:20 PM
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#16
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Addicted
1971 27' Overlander
Currently In: Skowhegan
, ME
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3
I have read that flaws in the clear coat give it a place to start. The filiform on my AS is mostly where there is dissimilar metal attachments. For example: where the stainless steel front window guard clips are riveted to the aluminum, where the Airstream name plate is attached to the side of the trailer, where the tail lights are attached to the trailer, and where the stove vent cover is attached. Very - very little filiform otherwise. I have used techniques described in other treads to control it.
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Hmm...I can say that on my '71, I have it everywhere, including in the middle of a panel without any holes, rivets, seams, etc.
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12-16-2011, 05:28 PM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka
, California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam
Bingo. They aren't clear coated at the factory (JC), the coating comes on the full sized sheets of aluminum they buy.
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Hmmmm? That's a bit disappointing too. There are miles of "raw edges" on one of these things.
Well, I'll have to set aside an allowance for all this Wilberizing, Waxing, and Washing - the Three W's. I do understand the comments that these are "just trailers," and not space shuttles. A $60,000 trailer is simply not built to the standards of say a $60,000 car, and I better get use to that idea real fast.
I am 2 miles from the Pacific ocean. Salt will be ever present here.
Ok, here's a specific question about the actual corrosion itself. Aside from the unsightly appearance, does it destroy the metal? By which I mean the way rust destroys steel? And as a follow up, let's say in some years from now I had this corrosion - could it be all buffed out - the way I see these older mirror-like Airstream finishes?
(sigh)
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12-16-2011, 06:45 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Corrosion will in time destroy metal. When aluminum is left uncoated it forms a protective oxide layer. When there are situations where the oxide layer can't form properly or where there are two different metals, or constant water being trapped between the clear coat and the metal surface then you have a problem. Places where I see corrosion are in nooks and cranies where there is dirt and mold etc that hold water and dirt against the surface. Also any damage to the clear coat will be a place for corrsion to start. Older Airstreams were Alclad with pure aluminum for corrosion resistance. I believe the newer ones are not Alclad. Alloys will corrode faster than pure aluminum. The clear nail polish trick is probably not a bad one. Using something like WD 40 might also help to repel water. Alclad was developed so that high strength alloys could be used on airplanes to help minimize corrosion. Unlike airplanes, Airstreams are not inspected for corrosion and other structural problems on a regular basis. Anodized aluminum is going to provide the most durable finish but is it expensive. Anodize is a way of enhancing the natural oxide layer that aluminum has. It is a conversion of the metal to an oxide or ceramic coating. There is alodine that is used as a semi anodized coating to protect aluminum. If you can alodine the surface and not change its color you would have a good way to preserve your Airstream.
Perry
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12-16-2011, 07:05 PM
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#19
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy
Hmmmm? That's a bit disappointing too. There are miles of "raw edges" on one of these things.
Well, I'll have to set aside an allowance for all this Wilberizing, Waxing, and Washing - the Three W's. I do understand the comments that these are "just trailers," and not space shuttles. A $60,000 trailer is simply not built to the standards of say a $60,000 car, and I better get use to that idea real fast.
I am 2 miles from the Pacific ocean. Salt will be ever present here.
Ok, here's a specific question about the actual corrosion itself. Aside from the unsightly appearance, does it destroy the metal? By which I mean the way rust destroys steel? And as a follow up, let's say in some years from now I had this corrosion - could it be all buffed out - the way I see these older mirror-like Airstream finishes?
(sigh)
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RWG,
Grab your favorite adult beverage and prepare for an enlightening read.
Notice when the thread was started, a chronic problem that JC has chosen to ignore.
KSC Corrosion Technology Laboratory -- Filiform Corrosion
Different Types of Corrosion: Filiform Corrosion or Underfilm Corrosion - Its Causes and Prevention, by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitting corrosion, galvanic corros
aluMATTER*|*Aluminium*|*Forms of Corrosion*|*Filliform Corrosion
Just enter filiform corrosion in the search function above for the additional chapters.
POI...ignore the dealer add-on. Just keep the AS clean and sealed, inspect often and address the filiform as it appears.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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12-16-2011, 07:27 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,423
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If you read the guarantee it will simply state that you will probably need to apply a renewer treatment every so many years and that if their product fails they will reapply it at no charge.
They will not fix anything they will just reapply at no charge hmmmmmm?
I think I will just clean and wax and save the $1500 and use some anti
corrosion techniques listed elsewhere on these forums.And if I fail I will reapply at no charge.
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