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Old 02-24-2004, 07:50 AM   #1
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2005 22' International CCD
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Question Window Stone Guard What to do?

As mentioned we have a few things to do but nothing really major like a complete tear down of the interior or replacing all the outer skin

However....Our Window Stone Guard has seen better days. It must have taken a good blow to the arm which shot right through the panel (compound fracture - ouch!) - Must have travelled through quite a few Texas Dust Devils - as she is sporting a flying nun look on either side too.

I would much prefer the nice smoked Plexi? material. And it would be great if we can use the same frame.....

Questions:

1.Has anyone removed and reinstalled using the same frame? - Can you share instructions?

2.What is the best way to remove the riveted "Piano Hinge" from the Outside or Inside? Also never played with rivets before - what is the best drill out technique to use taking into consideration the replacement rivets.

3.Does anyone know where to get the Smoked Plexi material?

4. Can you still get the lifter arms and/or hardware? used on the '69's

For ever in need...and for ever grateful for any assistance.

SPK
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:19 AM   #2
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The Rock Guards are still available from Airstream. They come complete.
Check my photos, I recently put one on my 1971.
The old one removes by drilling out the rivets with a #30 drill bit.
Andy at Inlandrv.com has drill bit kits for all sizes of rivets normally used on Airstreams. The new RockGuard comes with mounting hardware. Mine came with Stainless screws to attach the top hinge.
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:57 AM   #3
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Window stone guard

I have the same problem with ours on a 69 Sovereign. Ace Fogdall didn't have them in stock this Spring, but would order one in for me at $499.00 plus freight for the dark colored unit. (Jan 2004) Here's my reply. Any other ideas? Do the newer dark colored units hold up better than the older clear plastic units?

(Fritz-
We would have to order the solar grey rockguard, the cost of which is
$499.00 plus truck freight. Thanks.

Florence & Kristy
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:14 AM   #4
5 rivets, 1 loose screw
 
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Inland RV has some nifty looking shields. Part #34943.
$350 + shipping. The pic is from their website.

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Old 02-24-2004, 09:32 AM   #5
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I have wondered if I needed one for my 76 overlander. It dosn't appear to have ever had one. I haven't had it out on the road yet but hope to this spring(purchased last oct.) when I finish all the repairs. I guess I'm asking should I get one?
Love this site,Learned so much haven't had to ask any questions till now.
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:53 AM   #6
5 rivets, 1 loose screw
 
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Tinman, the rock guards have several purposes. Window protection of course, but also serve as an awning and provide UV protection. They also look pretty snazzy IMHO.
Since they have to be shipped by truck the shipping cost is high, maybe a hundred bucks or so.
The guard on my Caravel is the older flimsy plexiglass and has a couple cracks which can't be patched. Guess I'll be shopping for a new one soon.
If you don't mind parting with the cash, I'd recommend getting one.

Rog
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Old 02-24-2004, 10:27 AM   #7
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Wow - what do you guys think we are millionairs!

I thought people who bought the vintage A/S were frugle in their hunts!

I called Airstream and they say I have to go through a Dealer - so they were kind enough to give me 3 in BC only 3000 miles away

Anyway got a number for one in NewYork - Holiday on Wheels and of course the one in London Ontario - which You may as well be ordering Gold Bullion. $468 US last years price - add about 10% the gentleman said. So I could just imagine what Can Am would charge - YIKES

So back to the drawing board......and this is what my local research turned up...

The material used is a Lexan - Airstream uses a slightly cheaper material but for us layman it is basically the same stuff.

So I hunted for just the material as our old frame other than a bit of stress at the ends where the piano hinge finishes is just fine.

For a 4X8 sheet it is about $280 CND no - tint - waiting on a price for smoked. (Also got a price on 24 gage Aluminum $45 a sheet- for some inside finishes we are looking at - like kick plates at the bottom of the cupboards - will stop the veneer from pealing off - and picks up on what they do in many "water Yachts").

But the gentleman was real nice and said if you want to save even more money go to Trent Glass (Here in Peterborough) and wow guess what?

Material with tint/smoked, cut/shape and poprivet back into place (along with a bit of re-pressing of the frame in our case) she will cost a grand total of about $175CND = $140US.

For those who do not have a frame - I contacted a place here called Bruce Fabricating and they will make one based on the dimensions supplied. Only about 1-2 hours work at $55/hour and the u-channel type crimped aluminum edging is not very much either.

So how is that for a Newbie From a price of about $600CND to $175

Looking at Lee Valley for some hardware - not sure if you have them in the States - check out their web site hardware section might find some handy things[URL=http://www.leevalley.com[/URL]

When we get the Guard done we will certainly post some pictures.

If it looks and works great then we just might start our own little business and offer personal delivery - for extended holidays

SPK
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:28 PM   #8
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Thumbs up GREAT IDEA

Sharon.. Great idea.. let me know how you make out.. we were going to spring for one next winter if we went to Calif .. but would rather keep the business here.. I can forsee a business opportunity for you here.. Annie
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:41 PM   #9
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Andy's price on the original Airstream Rockguard seemed fair to me. Once installed, it contours very well, has a sealing lip to keep debris out from the front window area, and definitely looks like it belongs. Remember, you often get what you pay for. Much more than just a piece of Lexan. Although, if it is only Rock protection you want, aside from aestetics, then the other way would do the job just fine, I imagine.
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:23 PM   #10
5 rivets, 1 loose screw
 
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Apples and oranges

GT6921, when I bought my 'new' 1971 Caravel last July I also thought of just repacing the cracked "plastic" in the existing frame and I ran the idea up the flagpole here.
The thread is at http://www.airforums.com/forum...ight=rockguard
Note in particular the reply from Inland Andy where he advises that the construction of the new style is far superior to the original.

I doubt that anyone is going to tell you that your idea won't work, but comparing the cost of replacing the lexan in the original frame to the price of a totally new unit is kinda like comparing an apple to an orange.
If you do proceed with your idea, I'll be curious to know the result.
Good luck, pilgrim.

Rog
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:09 PM   #11
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Cool Go Slow / Be Happy

My two cents and thats an overstatement!

Unless you are going to a fire or have a deadline to go to the prom I would remove the thing for now. (You can buy #30 drill bits closer than California). A #30 is between a 1/8th and a 9/64th. Any of the three will do but go with the #30 if your hardware man has them.
Buy a good awl or pin punch and mark/indent the center of the rivet heads carefully. You gotta drill as close to perpindicular as you can. You are trying to go thru the dome head and down the shaft as near straight as you can without wollowing out the hole much.
It is a real pain in the arse. But you get the hang of it soon enough. Be patient let the drill do the work. Don't burn yourself as there is gonna be some heat genned from friction.
Buy 4 or 5 drill bits as you never will have enough and you'll dull and break a few.

This will give you some needed practice on removing rivets.
but as the front is a high profile area you want to learn real fast and real slow if you get my drift.

Before you remove it take alot of pix. From ever imaginable angle and showing all conectors and hardware.
After you get the thing off store it. I might be interested in it but doubt the shipping would compute.
Fill the rivet holes with pookey. You can even add rivets to the holes if you feel like it will be a while before you replace.
Get busy with the other 120 or so things you will come across.
Research different stone guards and when ready order and put it on.
Some where in my hours of surfing the mazes of Airstream and RV sites I recall some fella had a write-up on making your own rock guards from scratch. You'll have to find it yourself, maybe someone here can recall where it is.

Start looking for a Stanley #?77?? swivel headed hand riveter tool.
Hard to find but highly recommended.( I can't locate one in the 4th largest slum in the USA. However there is a tacouria on every corner and voo-doo herb stores on every block...viva Texico !)

Oh might as well get familliar with rivets and order some (100) Olympics from somewhere. A guy on this forum has a great price.
68 Overlander in Alabama he is. Look him up. He also sells convertors or invertors or pervertors or some kinda erters.. maybe even frankferters.....


Now if you got a neighbor kid with a sling shot you might revise this schedule.
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:16 PM   #12
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Just a note to all who care.
This weekend I installed a three piece Rockguard on a Argosy Minuet. It took me about 5 hours including disassembly of the center section, cutting it and rebuilding it.
I will be posting a detailed "How To" on this job.

As for full size trailers, I don't see why can't replace the Plexiglass if needed. A drill and a few pop rivets would be all that is required for the job.
I would be a little hesitant to build one, this is because of one detail on the factory unit.
The factory extrusion has a place to attach a molding strip which seals the window glass all the way around the guard.
It appears to me if you are going to build it you must figure how you are going to seal it. It is necessary to keep rocks and debris from getting in around the edges if you want to keep your windows intact.
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:30 PM   #13
5 rivets, 1 loose screw
 
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Re: Go Slow / Be Happy

Quote:
Originally posted by jaco
Fill the rivet holes with pookey.
Does that come from California too? Do you know the part number?
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:50 PM   #14
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Pookey - You guys crack me up!

SPK, good for you guys. I can't wait to see how it goes. I have a front window guard that has taken it's share of rocks over the years, and I've been playing with the idea of replacing it with tinted lexan. I'll be interested to see how yours goes.

Also, Lee Valley rocks. I've never seen so much cool stuff in one catalog.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:16 PM   #15
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Couple of things fellows ....

don't mean to wee in your pond and certainly would not question Airstreams version of "Noooobody" (Beats Andy's price) I'm sure Andy's Rock Guard is well up to snuff both mechanically and estetically - and although we have not had the pleasure of meeting Andy I have enjoyed reading his expert advice on many topics. We have yet to place our first order - which I'm sure will be substantial by the time we are finished - hence just a small reason to find more economical methods during our refit - not to mention keeping it "Local".

And Yeh - as you've probably gathered, it might be hard to tell me which way to go or not...

But this issue is not just about money it is about maintaining the integrity of the "antique" piece. I know sometimes you have to bite the bullet and get yourself a good replica to replace something that is either missing or broken beyond repair - however.

This unit is 35 years old and it still has the original Stone Guard. And from the hundreds of pictures I've seen alot of them do - except in places were they are not really needed - like in the coastal areas.

Except for some yo yo (not sure if it would have been a male or female- debatable there as I have been known to force a few things closed too) the lift arm was rammed right through the guard. There was no other crack or splits other than just faded and really does not "look" the part against the splendor.

So obviously with care the Vintage frames did hold up. There is also the issue of traveling at 70mph everywhere too which was unheard of back then. (Except during the street drag races)

As far as the material used - well we were not to concerned about UV rays 35 years ago and earlier were we? And today we have "sunglasses on everything from our babies to office buildings" Soon there will be mobile smoked UV bubble protectors for us to walk our dogs in.

Lexan bends and forms pretty good and will follow the contour of the existing frame when cut/shaped professionally. The whole A/S is held together by the rivet system -tried, tested and true!- so I would think the lexan material would hold up a lot better to rivets than the previous material. Sealing the window completely from dirt and debri - will never happen just as the bra on a car. But we can make some modifications to help deter the rub and vibration such as using ss ruber stopers found on many walk through windshield (on boats that is).

Do you get what you pay for? - you certainly do. Someone paid a pretty good penny for her in her day - and her quality can be attested to the fact that she is here today and why so many people are willing to mortgage their house to get vintage parts.

Now I totally agree trying to fix that old fiberglass material would be just too yucky and would not stop the UV rays worth a penny. So the small health concious upgrade is IMHO okay and should not be shuned by the AS gods.

Astetically - will our unit become a "Bambi" NO - that is because she is a 1969 GlobeTrotter Landyacht and always will be .

Written in the best of intensions - and in no way meant to be defensive ............however - I would not be too quick to question the quality of our local tradesman and the "value" of their work.

Advice and Rec's graciously noted.

SPK
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:49 PM   #16
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Whoa!

Quote:
Originally posted by GT6921
Written in the best of intensions - and in no way meant to be defensive ............however - I would not be too quick to question the quality of our local tradesman and the "value" of their work.

Advice and Rec's graciously noted.

SPK
That's not defensive, that's offensive. Are you suggesting that someone cast aspersions at your local tradesmen?
And it's not "Andy's Rock Guard", it's an Airstream rockguard which is distributed by Inland RV and many other authorized parts and service centers.
As for "Noooobody" (Beats Andy's price)"..........I have NEVER seen anyone make that claim but I have seen posts to the contrary. I think most of us who have been around a while know that Inland RV has exclusive rights to a number of vintage parts and is not a cheap place to do your Airstream shopping.
I'm all for keeping these forums friendly so please, let's not misconstrue our facts.

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Old 02-24-2004, 07:59 PM   #17
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Window Stone Guard What to do?

Greetings SPK!

Quote:
Lexan bends and forms pretty good and will follow the contour of the existing frame when cut/shaped professionally. The whole A/S is held together by the rivet system -tried, tested and true!- so I would think the lexan material would hold up a lot better to rivets than the previous material. Sealing the window completely from dirt and debri - will never happen just as the bra on a car. But we can make some modifications to help deter the rub and vibration such as using ss ruber stopers found on many walk through windshield (on boats that is).
You may actually find that you like the clear Lexan better than the smoke tinted product. I know that I would prefer the clear Lexan on the three-piece rock guard on my Minuet. One of my favorite features of most of the Vintage coaches is that when the drapes are open on the front and rear window - - you can see through the trailer from front to rear from your tow vehicle (assuming that you are towing with a truck based vehicle). This feature means that you can actually see a car that is tailgating and may not be readily visible in the side mirrors. On my vintage Overlander (single front window), I had the original glass window replaced with Lexan to maintain its see-through quality while towing - - the Lexan has held up beautifully over more than eight years. I felt like I needed the factory guards on the Minuet where the wing windows are so expensive to replace - - one window replaced would more than equal the cost of the entire rock guard.

Good luck with your project!

Kevin
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:28 PM   #18
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Rog - I too am for keeping forums friendly

And I think you may have taken something in my post in the wrong context.

I was mearly poking fun at the words "you get what you pay for" and relating to our own tradesman.

I read the thread and Andy's responses and from that thread my question was if the "old" guards were so poorly made - why are they still around today?

As far as Nooobody (Beats Andy's Price) - that is pure Canadian fun or should I say more Toronto fun -as Andy At Inland RV (the picture on his website) is the spitting image or could certainly pass as our former Mayor Lastman who's prior business was "Bad Boy Appliances" and that was his slogan.

So no I was not pointing fingers
No I was not slighting Inland RV or Airstream and nor did I not appreciate your input....

Rog I think you are suffering from cabin feaver (not hard to be with the winter we have had!) and may just be in desperate need of a holiday in your Caravel

Overlander - what a great hint re leaving it clear. There was a couple of times on our way home we did say geeeeeeesssss where the heck did he come from????

Mostly we just want to protect the inside glass - many of our roads up hear are only 2 lanes - I mean one on either side not 4 - so we have a lot of gravel shoulders to contend with. When we will be travelling in the winter to more friendly climates we have the winter conditions to deal with (salt and sand). Will have to invest in a good set of Mud Flaps as the Sorento only comes with toy ones

SPK
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:39 PM   #19
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SPK, you may be correct in your diagnosis of cabin fever and maybe I did think I caught you weeing in my pond, and maybe I just might be right in asking folks to remember that these forums have more than 4,000 members and to be careful of posting misinformation that might cause misunderstandings.
Go on ahead with your bad self and build your new rockguard as you see fit. If it falls apart, you can always blame it on Husband for not installing it properly. Truth is I'll probably do the same but I sure do like the looks of that solar rockguard. It kinda reaches out and grabs you kinda like Dolly Parton's....er...ah....endowments.
I can appreciate your sentiment on keeping the trailer as original as possible but I guess the bottom line on deciding on what best to do with things like this is to ask yourself if you are restoring the trailer to meet the expectations of other AS enthusiasts or your own satisfaction. It's YOUR trailer so do what you want.
After you croak, the next owner can do the same.

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Old 02-24-2004, 10:06 PM   #20
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Local dealers

While we were hunting for a rock guard for our Tradewind, we happened into our local A/S dealer and mentioned the rock guard to one of their parts guys who had been around for years and years. We needed a flat guard for our pre-1969 trailer, and that guard is the same size as the middle piece on the three-piece guards for the modern pre-widebody trailers. He asked us to wait for a few minutes, and he came back down with a guard that had been ordered as part of a three-piece unit but never used. He sold it to us for about half of what we found them elsewhere and mentioned that he had all kinds of different rock guard sections in parts storage. Some had very minor dings or scratches but were certainly presentable.

Sometimes local dealers end up being not only the easiest but suprisingly the cheapest if they've had the part you need laying around in storage.
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