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Old 12-01-2007, 10:25 PM   #101
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Not only is it easy to winterize..But I think I would replace the water pump if needed in about 10 minutes also. Everything is chest hi in easy reach.
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:39 PM   #102
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Winterized

Dford, you need to go to the factory and explain to them how to design the water pump placement.

2air, I don't know that I can do photos in pic. I use a Mac and iPhoto images are jpeg but become jpg when I drag them to the desktop. I can convert to pdf by dragging to word processing and translating to pdf then drag back to desktop and transferring to Forum. Robert Cross suggested to me that he e-mails photos to himself. There's an "insert image" option above, but for the time being I'll leave it alone.

On another thread lewster suggested to just put 2 gallons of antifreeze in the holding tank and pump it through. May taste bad next spring, but adapting the pump inlet line seemed too crazy for now and we just wanted to get it done now.

First we drained everything, got out the compressor and screwed a male hose end into the city water. I used the rubber tip on the compressor and pressing it against the hose end made a good seal and started pressurizing. It took forever. Why? I forgot to close the petcocks that drain the water lines. Closed them, pressurized. Most of the water came out the water heater drain, closed it, checked all faucets and showers.

My hope that I had cleaned out the black water tank was only a hope. Hooked up a hose and got the water through after the ice in the hose broke free (every year I plan to drain all the hoses before it freezes; never do) and started flushing the black water tank. Yuk! Emptied the brown stuff in buckets, carried up to house (175' each way) and to nearest toilet, dumped. Carried about 10 gallons before we got clear water.

Went and looked for something to empty 2 gallons of antifreeze into the fresh water tank—lucky I never throw anything away. Found just the right tube with a 60˚ bend in it, placed funnel at top and emptied the antifreeze in. Turned on pump, got pink, filled traps.

Next we have to figure out what to do with the TV. Samsung owner's manual says to store between -4˚ and 113˚. It's probably not too difficult to take out and I wonder if the A/S manual even mentions this.

I am not too happy with the company right now. The manual gives information that is out of date, sometimes confusing and incomplete. The water pump placement was done by a designer who couldn't care less about maintenance. The Safari is wonderful in many ways, but there are irritants that are unnecessary and tell me there are lapses at the factory. I suspect some of it is cost cutting. For example, some of the interior aluminum panels do not fit well—along the seams the aluminum is not flat between some rivets. If it was riveted from the center outward, that wouldn't happen. It would take two guys to do it. It could also be riveted from one end and across—that would also take two guys. If one guy does it, he has to secure it on each side and then work inward. Saves labor, angers the customer who looks up at this luxury item and sees a poor fit.

We also found a few gouges in the vinyl floor. Someone dragged a metal appliance across the floor and it caught the vinyl on a sharp edge. Only way I can imagine that happened. Maybe two guys were needed. To get that fixed would mean so many things would have to be removed that more damage would be done to something. And on my window claim, the dealer is being unresponsive. The warranty person does not call back, so I'll just have to call the boss and cause some trouble. I have also asked for the manual on the Equalizer and no response. It's not good to make enemies at the dealership when there are so few dealers and I'm 220 miles away. I do feel that once we were out the door, "goodbye and don't come back".

We still have to find some sort of cover for it. I e-mailed a nearby manufacturer and they never answered. Amazing how some people stay in business.

It seems lots of frustrations come with an A/S, though I think the quality control is better than a lot of SOB's. We owners are the best salesmen the company has, but they may not be aware of that. Of course, in a few years the first Chinese made Alumastream may be on the market. It'll cost $10,000 and be painted inside with lead based paint. It'll fall apart in 2 years but Thor will be out of business. Maybe my Safari will be worth $150,000 in a few more years and I can sell it as a rarity. I can get an Alumastream every 2 years and invest the rest of the money. I can make more than $10,000 in 2 years on the $140,000 invested and come out ahead. Sound crazy? Remember when GM had more than 50% of the market and looked invincible? I think the company needs to learn a luxury item needs to be damn near perfect.

The basic A/S idea was the major innovation and since Thor came along, they seem to be tinkering with it rather than being as creative as Wally Byam was. A lot of tinkering can mean a lot of improvements which add up to something better, but creativity and Lexus-like quality control are lacking. Enough pontificating.

Some more things to do, TV comes out, tarps over wheels until a better cover is found, wash and wax it if it gets warm. Wait for spring.

Gene
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:06 PM   #103
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gene the forum software accepts jpeg and jpg image files.

the picture i thumbnailed (yours) was done on a mac with iphoto or photochop...

while u can drag the photo files to the desktop,

you can also take them directly from your iphoto folder...

for simplicity sake i've created a folder just for airforums pics...

and upload jpg or jpeg files.

keep at it.

2air'
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:09 PM   #104
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CrawfordGene. It would seem that if Airstream would like to brag about their product they would put more into detail. This whole Airforums exists only because they are a good product to take down to the frame and restore. Restoration people don't care about quality..they just like to restore. to their own tasts. This forum is much more restoration than NEW reviews. IF new reviews were to keep Airstream of business they would have to shut down tomorrow. Cause quality contol is amoung the lowest in the industry. ITS A FACT. I have a close friend who has been in the RV business for decades. He used to sell Airstreams but doesnt anymore. He showed me a publication about warrenties industry wide. Airstream had one of the highest Dolllar per unit warrenty claims in the industry. Many times higher then many SOB's of half the price. Some would argue thats because the SOB customers don't care..they just want a box to camp in. But when I recently visited a dealer I saw so many things that simply were put together sloppy and didnt' fit and it is dishartening. And the wireing and water pump issues is just not acceptable if half of what I read is true. And they all leak....most of em right out of the factory. But they are like Harley Davidson motorcycles...they stay in existance because they are uniqly american. May other SOBS have better cabinet woods and finish and are more user friendly than AS. How is it so many folks here can have so many good ideas to make life with an AS much simpler and the factory never takes any of it to construction. ie...the water pump...thats a joke...it could be fixed so it is easy to get to. WHY DON"T THEY? I can't even see this as a costly issue. Just that they don't want to do it???? Walley said...."We don't make changes we just make improvements". It is funny how people will defend shoddy construction just because its an AS. YET when Ford and Chevy put out cars that were inferior to what the foreign manufactoriers had...GM and Ford are about to become also rans in the auto industry. ITS a mystery to me. I have always wanted an AS but am getting cold feet. Especially when I run into folks like a talked to at Costco a few months back. Two retired couples in a Holiday Rambler motor home. Both of the couples had purchased Airstreams together several years back when they retired. NOW...they own motor homes..so I ask why? They said they couldnt get rid of them fast enough. The AS leaked...and were in the shop for warrenty work so often they could no longer put up with them. So they traded them for motor homes. Two new Holiday Ramblers. They told me the motor homes have been so much better about NOT leaking...and warrenty claims that there is no comparison. They told me they wished they had hever gone the AS route. They were like us. It was a retirement dream. So they took the leap...along with their friends. Both of them bought 34 foot Classics and paid over 90 thousand for them a few years back. And were very sour on Airstreams. They were headed for Arizona for the winter. There second trip with the motor homes and seemed to be very pleased now that they had ridden themselves of the constant trips to the dealer with thier AS. I am sorry if I offend people but I am not the only one here who has spoken his mind about such things. I know I will be lambasted but thats ok. Maybe some good can come from it?
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:48 PM   #105
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Posting pictures...................Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggg

Hi, CrawfordGene. As for posting pictures on this forum, I spent many nights up until, maybe three AM, trying to post pictures; Very frustrating, but I finally did it. Next time I couldn't post pictures again. Now I finally learned how to do it, but I could never explain, in words, how to do it. There was a topic called "Favorite Mod Under $100" I posted several pictures of things I did to improve my Safari. It can be done. Keep trying.

Also, I went to the Equal-i-zer site and printed an instruction manual for my hitch; It helped me quite a bit on tuneing the hitch the way I want, but to their specs. On the water pump access subject, I think it is different with different floor plans; Mine has an access door under my closet, but other's stated they need to remove the closet floor to get to their water pump.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:08 PM   #106
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Retired?

Robertsunrus

If I remember correctly you are officially retired. Today would be the first day of the really fun part of your life where you get up on a Monday morning and wave at all those folks who are doing the commute.

Congratulations.

Barry
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:57 PM   #107
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For Crawford Gene. Seems you're making a lot more out of winterizing your Safari than I do. I drain the water tank and hot water heater, turn the hot water heater by-pass valves then blow out the water lines as my wife opens each outlet until only air comes through. Then we put a little antifreeze down each drain. Takes about 20 minutes. The LCD TV is on its fourth Wyoming winter and has never been brought inside. I Checked with Airstream on winterizing and the way I do it is the way they say they do it in Ohio.
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Old 12-03-2007, 01:08 PM   #108
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Form over function?

I guess the guy who designed the water pump placement also wrote the code for posting pictures. He's everywhere!

It seems the 25 FB's all have the water pump buried under the closet; maybe the 27's too. Some models may have a way to lift up the closet floor. Otherwise you can cut the floor for access and put another floor on top of the remains of the old one. There's also access of sorts under the refrigerator, but there's a melamine panel screwed in. On mine the panel is so tight it's almost impossible to move out of the way, but that would be where a three way valve would be installed to suck antifreeze through the pump. Lewster suggests buying a different pump—quieter and can install in a better place. Sooner or later I'll have to clean out the pump filter and that's almost impossible where the pump is.

I didn't want to turn this thread into a bashAirstream one. There are plenty of those already. I think DFord raises some good points nonetheless. Our one previous experience with a truck camper was so bad we returned it (the Safari is so much better than that camper was there's no real comparison). It took us 5 years to look at another alternative. It's easy to get aluminitis and I have a fair amount of mechanical and remodeling experience. My approach is to fix a problem when it comes up, but I get pretty angry when something is done with so little regard for common sense or done sloppy when the price doesn't justify it. I hope you're wrong about A/S having a poor industry record on quality control; not that I doubt you, just don't want to believe it because we own one. DFord, given how many posts you've done, it appears you are researching this very, very carefully. Maybe an Airstream isn't for you. It's a unique item and a big investment. Maybe an A/S is a victory of form over function. We are fortunate enough to have been able to afford it, but for many others it may be an unwise choice. If QC is really bad, I am wondering if it's a good idea to take the Safari on long trips.

There are a lot of posts about how the company can sell anything it makes and therefore doesn't care. It's possible it can't sell anymore than it makes (wouldn't another manufacturer be making a similar unit if there was a market for them?). That could mean they are content with selling 1,800 or so a year and their main concern is selling all the other brands they make. A/S is simply their Cadillac or Lincoln (note I didn't write "Lexus") to give them caché. A lot of us try to figure out what's going on in the collective executive mind in Jackson Center. I suppose that's because we don't want to believe they don't care and are willing to accept a high warranty claim rate. As an investor, I intend to look at Thor Industries as an investment because they seem to be a good investment because the signs point to high profit margins. I've made enough money in oil and gas investments to pay for my gas even though I have little regard for the morality of that industry.

For my part, I'm not willing to sell it and take a $10,000 loss. I like looking out the window at it. I like the uniqueness of it. Barb really is in love with it (she doesn't have to fix the water pump situation, though she does have to listen to me complaining). We have furnished our house with pre-WW II designs: Mission style furniture, Art Deco fixtures, a 1930 Magic Chef stove (works fine too) and Navajo weavings. The Airstream fits into that style too. Before retirement, we cut corners, never bought luxury items, never had cars or trucks with A/C or power windows (until it was impossible not to have them), so it's been time to live it up a bit. We've even had two SUVs with leather seats! We are decadent. So, I think it's a design choice more than a practical one. The best of all worlds is total reliability combined with beauty. We buy Toyotas because of the former. They really aren't very sexy. Maybe we're out of control, but we don't have any children to have us committed. Clearly an A/S isn't for everyone. I had some concerns before we bought because I had read here of all the problems people have had with them. Some of it I wrote off to being anecdotal evidence, but I was concerned. I suppose there's acceptable nonreliability.

I hadn't thought of this as a restoration forum. I think there's a lot to that, but if so, it's changing because many people posting have post-2000 Airstreams. Everyone can be accommodated and the restorers have useful information for the rest of us. Eventually we become restorers.

The point behind my Chinese fauxAirstream is that a similar travel trailer made in an overseas country with strict QC could produce a better unit for less money (not $10 K of course). It could look the same, I expect, because I doubt Thor could have a design patent on the style—there have been too many trailers that look substantially the same made for many decades—A/S wasn't even the first. Cost issues have forced many jobs out of this country. Arrogance is a different problem—American auto executives have suffered from that. Both, together, are deadly. I prefer to buy American, but it's pretty hard to do that a lot of the time anymore. RV's, so far as I know, are an American invention and still made here. But, if I were an auto manufacturer in S. Korea or India or Brazil or any other emerging nation, I might be looking at making RV's for the American market. Sad thought, but perhaps inevitable. Using Toyota QC methods would mean a better and a bit cheaper product. If I were a Thor executive I'd be very worried about that.

Enough of this. Back to my real life.

Gene
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:20 PM   #109
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DFord mentions As being like Harley-Davidson...which I absolutely agree with in terms of brand history and position in the marketplace...BUT...Harley-Davidson has done an excellent job the last...say...nearly 15 years...at bringing their quality level up to a par with their brand image...slowly...and very certainly.

My wife and I currently own two Harleys (had 4 but sold two!)...and I can vouch for their reliabilty...AND...they do not leak all over your garage floor!

For years Harley had waiting lists at their dealerships...but they correctly knew the day would come when that was not true and used their good marketing fortune as an opportunity to improve quality and features of their bikes. Just in time too...as now the waiting list is gone and they must compete for each sale!

I believe the AS market is beginning to feel the same "pinch"...maybe it is fuel/interest costs...maybe it is partially quality "issues"...but if you watch the retail offerings you will see quite a few "close-out" deals...best I have seen is a 2007 27FB Classic at over 28% discount (new). Also appears the 25% deal is not too hard to come by...was not that way 3-4 years ago.

AS will need to fix the quality construction basics as someday...maybe soon...they will have to sell on more than their history and brand...just ask Harley-Davidson.

You know...it really isn't that hard to do the basics right...just need a corporate comittment...and improve each year incrementally. That way...maybe AS can keep getting their substantial annual list price increases.

Thanks...Tom R
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:28 PM   #110
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Posting images as JPEGs

Hi Gene,

Noticed you are using iPhoto. Resizing images in iPhoto is not very intuitive, but here's a way to do it and get appropriately sized images for the forums:

1. Select an image in iPhoto.

2. Select File>Export from the menu. A dialogue box opens.
a. Click Format: JPEG
b. Click Size, "Scale Images No Larger Than:"
At this point choose an image size. For a 10" image this would be
720. The other side of the image is automatically sized.
Note: 72ppi= one inch on a computer screen.

3. Click Export. This puts you in navigation mode. Choose a destination
folder (i.e. "Pictures", with perhaps an "Airstream Forums" folder inside)

4. Click "OK". Your file is delivered to this folder. Note that the original
full-sized file remains in iPhoto.

As far as posting goes:

1. Write the text of your post.

2. Go to "Manage attachments". This puts you in navigation mode.

3. Select an image from a folder (i.e. Pictures> "Airstream Forums")

4. Upload your selection.

5. Submit your post.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I left anything out.

Terry
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:00 AM   #111
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I need to finish my comments about Airstreams and Harleys. I have information that is somewhat (if its true) troublesome for AS. AS of October AS had only sold 290 trailers for the intire year. This is way down from past years. AS has about 80 dealers nationwide. A great deal of these dealers only sell a few AS each year. I do NOT know how accurate my information is but it came from someone I know who had been very reliable in the past. This is shocking to me. How can they survive???? ARE the numbers correct? does anyone know? I am under the impressions that the top ten dealers in the country sell most of their trailers. The rest of the dealers just have a few around to sell if they can as a side product. I know one dealer who told me AS used to build 1500 or more each year? Does anyone have correct information??????

As for Harley Davidson they make a very reliable and desirable motorcycle and have done so for many years. It is an ICON that is larger than life. ONE of the true legends in the motor world. You can actually sell a 10 year old Harley for what you paid for it if it is taken care of and maintained like MOST Harley owners do.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:04 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFord79
As for Harley Davidson they make a very reliable and desirable motorcycle and have done so for many years. It is an ICON that is larger than life. ONE of the true legends in the motor world. You can actually sell a 10 year old Harley for what you paid for it if it is taken care of and maintained like MOST Harley owners do.
Hi DFord...don't think you have been out in the Harley resale market recently!

I own a ten year old Harley...'97 Electraglide (as well a a nine year old '98 Road King...wife's bike )...and they no longer "sell for what you paid for them". Harley still makes a great bike and their value does hold up well...but they now do depreciate in a manner similar (albeit a bit more slowly) than other motorcycles.

Also, I am quite confident AS sells more units than you quoted. I think their marketing stategy is to keep prices and demand high...by NOT increasing volume. I agree that they seem to be focusing on a limited number of large, well know dealers...that essentially promote and sell reginally and nationally via the internet. That fits well with the limited production volume...and attempts at maintaining very high MSRP pricing. Although, there does appear to be more discounting than historically.

Would be interesting to see what would happen if AS increased production volume many fold...such as Harley has done. Harley has no choice BUT to increase sales as they are a public company with sales and earning pressure...Thor CAN elect to leave AS volume low and reap profits...since they have so many other products that they can flog for growth. I think AS would find their market demand is VERY strong...but VERY shallow...and would have real issues inreasing production and sales.

FWIW...Tom R

P.S. Another anlogy might be Lazy Daze Class C motor homes out in California. Low volume, high quality, direct to customer, 50+ year old company...with very limited production.

Lazy Daze maintain strong resale values and do no discounting (they only build to an actual order) and seem to do fine with their limited production volume. Used units get snapped up quickly...since there are so few in the market. They have a small...but almost cult like following...that would have a difficult time supporting higher volumes...TMR
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:54 PM   #113
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A few things about Thor Industries (THO stock symbol). It is a public company, like Harley. Tom is right—they have many products to push. They can use A/S as the top of the line. There's really no incentive for them to sell a lot of Airstreams. The stock is down recently, but a lot of stocks are down. Inventory of all Thor RV's as of Nov. 30 is up 23% from a year ago. THO pays a stingy dividend, but equity analysts like the company and some advise a "buy". I don't have a clue about low, low sales and didn't do enough research.

Gene
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:43 PM   #114
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Winter Storage

Yesterday we went and looked at a canopy at a canopy manufacturer right here in Delta County. They use a steel frame; everything fits together without bolts and seemed pretty strong and stable. The vinyl is fairly thick, warranted for 5 years, said to last at least 10. This company does a lot of work for the military and so the frame design is made to put together and take apart fast. It looks like a good shelter, but I have no experience in these things. I know cheap canopies can be had for several hundred dollars. The model which is 25' long, 12' high and 12' wide was about $2,900. It would have a back panel, but no front door. Comes with a lot of 1/2" x 18" stakes to pound into the ground though holes in frame. They said we could put it up in about 4 hours (sure). The whole thing weighs about 600 lbs. It would extend to just cover the propane tanks. The next size up, 30' long, was more, so was a front door, delivery. If we decide in the next week, we get 4% more off.

Is this reasonable?

We did winterize. Gave up on the water pump, drained everything, blew out the lines with 65 lbs pressure, poured 2 gallons of antifreeze into the potable water tank, turned on the pump and got pink out of all the faucets, let it run into the traps, put some in the toilet bowl. Learned not to leave the petcocks on the water lines open while pressurizing the system with a compressor, and then to close the pressure relief valve on the water heater to get more water out of the drain hole. After doing this, actually read the A/S owners manual about the water heater (it's not in the winterizing section!). They recommended flushing out the water heater, probably from the open pressure relief valve, to wash out the corrosive stuff that collects in the bottom of the tank. There's about 2 quarts there below the drain plug. Why isn't the drain plug at the bottom? Since we haven't used this water heater very long, there probably wasn't much stuff in the remaining water, but we blew out what we could.

We also flushed out the black water tank since on our last night and day out we couldn't get a decent hookup to really flush it. One of our hoses was frozen—I never drain those things in time; every year I'm going to do it, never do. The other unfrozen hose was long enough to just make it and we flushed everything out. Delightful job, though carrying about 10 gallons in buckets up hill and about 175' to the house and then to the nearest toilet was really the worst part.

It took about 2 1/2 hours, but if I had closed the petcocks sooner and dealt with the water heater quicker, and had been able to flush the black water tank while still on the road, it would have taken a lot less time.

Some places it says to leave a little water in the black water tank; others, not to. Some people put antifreeze in the black and grey tanks; others don't. I left nothing in either, so I am right and I am wrong.

I called the warranty person at the dealer. I was not happy since she never called me back. I was told A/S would not cover the window. She gave me the 800 number dealers use to call A/S (I won't reveal it) and I talked to a customer service tech. After we went around in circles for a while, I got him to understand it was not a window problem (not covered), but a latch problem, probably not adjusted properly at the factory, and he agreed to send me a check. I faxed him the invoice and hope to have the money before Xmas.

I'll have to deal with other warranty issues next spring: at least one gouge in the vinyl floor and the window not fitting just right. That's all I can remember right now.

There's some odds and end to deal with soon and a decision on a shelter. It's been raining for several days (a real rarity here) and I've found no leaks. I'd like to wash it if we can get a warm day, but Colorado weather is unpredictable.

We have to catch up on the rest of our lives. This experience, starting in late September with buying a new truck, has taken a lot of time. I have to finish remodeling the master bathroom (not doing so may result in divorce), we both have to catch up on all the volunteer work we do, catch up on reading, and I have to start the process with the County of resizing the adjoining lot to sell it next spring (to pay for the Safari and more). We will be trying to figure out how to do the NYC (my 50th HS reunion) trip next May—leave the A/S somewhere in NJ and get lodging in Queens or Nassau, or figure out how to go around NYC and find a campground on Long Island, or just drive the 4Runner to NYC, stay in motels and complain about restaurant food. Who said retirement was easy?

Thanks to everyone for all the compliments about my babbling on and on. Although lawyers are normally very humble, I may be getting a swollen ego.

Gene
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:05 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
babble babble...Although lawyers are normally very humble...
yea that describes ALL of my lawyer friends

what brand shelter, is it load rated for snow and ice and does it have sway control?

i'd say skip it for 1 year, you can always spend money,

my choice would be a rounded 'quoncet hut' style IF going for a tarp building, and they come in SILVER!

YES i'd put anti freeze in the toilet bowl AND some in the black tank, the seals will thank you.

also some in the wash water tank, again it's all about the seal icing up or drying out.

bummer that you've got pink in the fresh, that really takes effort to remove completely...

of course, you might like the taste after a bit, humble as you are and all...

cheers
2air
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:31 AM   #116
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The brand is Weatherport. Wind load: 60 mph. Snow load: 45 psf. They also have an upgrade for 125 mph, 90 psf. They come in tan, white, green, etc., but those vinyl colors are all ugly I think. I'd rather look at the trailer than a canopy or a quonset hut no matter what the color. Maybe one of those cheapo canopies is a better solution—even if it rips in 3 years, it'll take a long time before I've spent as much as getting a high quality one. It would cover the roof which is where most of the sealant that can leak once it dries out seems to be.

Thanks about the seals 2air, I forgot about that. How much antifreeze in each tank?

Now back to my antifreeze cocktail, it looks so good with an umbrella in it.

I look forward to flushing several hundred gallons through the potable water system in the spring.

Gene
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Old 12-23-2007, 07:33 PM   #117
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I put another gallon of antifreeze in the tanks: 1/2 gallon in the black water tank, 1/2 gallon in the grey water tank distributing through each P-trap to make sure they are all full. I wiped up the antifreeze in the sinks and shower to make sure it doesn't stain anything, though I don't know that it does.

We decided not to get the $2,900 canopy. If we get a cheap one for a couple of hundred bucks and it lasts 3 years, it'll take more than my life span according to how long I'm supposed to live to spend $2,900. When I'm 110 I may regret this decision, but I won't remember I made it although Barb will, but she'll be 100 and maybe she'll forget too.

We've had about a foot of snow in the last few weeks and there's about 2 inches left on top of the Safari acting as a natural canopy.

After mulling over the question of whether to remove the LCD HD TV since it's not supposed to be stored below -4˚, I made the lazyman's decision and left it in the trailer. Maybe later—it hasn't been quite that cold yet.

Friends still coming over for Airstream tours and all are very impressed. Now I'm waiting for Spring…

Gene
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:50 PM   #118
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Crawford Gene

What I did for a canopy - I acquired a used commercial unit complete that is 12' W x 34' L x 12' H for $300.00 and then was charged $100 to have the original installers go over to take it down so I could transport it home. We first took a ton of pictures of how it was set up and fastened, watched them dismantle it, making sure we got every nut, bolt, clamp, and pad they removed and also to understand the order they did everything, then a bunch of buddies, some coffee's and it was put up in half a day along the side of my shop.

Mine is the type that attached along the side of the building but there are the full cover ones available as well. These come up in the local classified newspapers more often than I had thought.

It's really nice commercial grade covering and reinforcing. It should last a good 10 to 15 years or more. Having erected my fair share of the $200 CostCo and Home Despot ones over the years, and sometimes after a strong wind/rain/wet snow binge a couple of times a winter, this is by far the best way to go, and the size is perfect.

Just a thought,

Merry Christmas,
Barry
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:53 AM   #119
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Thanks for the tip Barry. I have limited space because I planted trees alongside the shop five years ago to screen the view of a metal building, so I have limited space and a hill to make it worse. I'm falling into the mañana solution as the ground freezes and will start looking for used canopies in our local shopper next year (mañana is Christmas).

I'm hoping to get back to BC in 2009. We've been all over your province in the past 5 years and have many good memories of the beauty of BC. We were in Prince Rupert via the Alaska State Ferry last year and took the Yellowhead Highway and swung down to your Glacier National Park and Waterton Lakes (prettier than our Glacier NP). If we were a lot younger, we might emigrate to Canada because it reminds us of the US 50 years ago when things were calmer and people were nicer, but Canada doesn't have reciprocity with our Medicare and we'd be stuck without health care.

Was "Home Despot" a typo or an opinion? Since that chain went bad, we go to Lowe's, but I don't think you have that chain there.

Gene
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:43 PM   #120
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Gene

We have always called it Home Despot, not for any reason to start with as it was pretty decent when it first came in. They realize that Rona, the Lowe's equivalent here, in many cases is not up to what HD was originally so in our humble opinion HD lowered their quality of service to Rona's. So we go to the Lowe's just over the border from time to time.

Glad you have enjoyed the province's many beauties. We are always amazed at how beautiful it is when we are out traveling within it's boundaries.

All the best for the Christmas season, and hopefully that cover will show up. I got mine in June when they weren't high on other people's priority list.

Barry
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