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07-31-2009, 06:42 AM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2010 28' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 146
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Heat Alert!
Attention all potential Safari 23-25 purchasers in the South and Southwest USA. The factory stock Dometic 13,500 BTU Air/Heat Pump cannot handle 90F plus days in the partial shade settings much less in full sun exposure. While the unit will pump out 50-55F chilled air the volume is not enough to give you anything more than a 15-20 degree temp differential. In other words on a 100F day in with the Safari in partial shade your indoor temp will be around 80F.
I recently camped at Palo Duro Canyon State Park near Amarillio, TX Palo Duro Canyon State Park the high hit 105F and with the air running full blast it was 92F inside. This is unacceptable especially after coming in from a 20 mile mountain bike ride.
The only fix is to upgrade to 15,000 BTU unit from Dometic products - Dometic that fits the same roof opening. Mine is on order now.
You can avoid the heat problem by ordering your Safari 25' or less with the 15,000 BTU unit. Airstream only installs that unit starting on the 27' line. Happy camping!
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07-31-2009, 07:51 AM
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#2
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3 Rivet Member
2000 31' Excella
Currently Looking...
Maryville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 191
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A question please.
Did you leave it running whille you were gone or did you leave it off ?
Robbie R.
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07-31-2009, 08:11 AM
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#3
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,159
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Greetings from the Florida Panhandle
We have a 2005 25FB with the 13.5M AC. We camp quite often in extreme heat conditions and have come up with ways to make our air conditioning work quite well.
The first thing that we did was place reflective insulation on the inside of our sky light and both fantastic fans. This helped significantly. We took this a step further and put this reflective material on the inside of our windows. It is held in place by the curtains.
We have found that these steps have made the AC work for us. We have camped southern Arizona earlier this summer and were comfortable at 109 degrees. We also summer camp extensively in Florida and are always comfortable.
Some will tell you that putting reflective material between the windows and the curtains will cause problems. We have not found this to be the case, and we use our Airstream extensively (450 nights and 50,000 miles in 3 years). We also leave this material in place when the trailer is not in use.
We also leave our AC on when we are not in the trailer.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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07-31-2009, 10:42 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags
We have a 2005 25FB with the 13.5M AC. We camp quite often in extreme heat conditions and have come up with ways to make our air conditioning work quite well.
The first thing that we did was place reflective insulation on the inside of our sky light and both fantastic fans. This helped significantly. We took this a step further and put this reflective material on the inside of our windows. It is held in place by the curtains.
We have found that these steps have made the AC work for us. We have camped southern Arizona earlier this summer and were comfortable at 109 degrees. We also summer camp extensively in Florida and are always comfortable.
Some will tell you that putting reflective material between the windows and the curtains will cause problems. We have not found this to be the case, and we use our Airstream extensively (450 nights and 50,000 miles in 3 years). We also leave this material in place when the trailer is not in use.
We also leave our AC on when we are not in the trailer.
Brian
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Good Ideas Moosetags - You could also try putting the reflective material outside of the windows - open them (assuming they aren't the Herr's that don't open fully), tuck the edges around the top and bottom and close the windows. It will be even more effective on the outside than the inside. I've toyed with making a "shower cap" for the skylight - using reflective drapery backing and a drawstring of elastic material. I think I could toss it over the skylight with little trouble, then tie the elastic off over the top door hinge. - Ugly but effective.
I also heard of one owner who used a mister hose on the roof. by cooling the roof, he kept the inside cooler.
Of course, also cleaning the fins of the AC coils helps them be more efficient. Just did that myself - it helped.
Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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07-31-2009, 12:31 PM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
1972 25' Tradewind
old mystic
, Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags
We have a 2005 25FB with the 13.5M AC. We camp quite often in extreme heat conditions and have come up with ways to make our air conditioning work quite well.
The first thing that we did was place reflective insulation on the inside of our sky light and both fantastic fans. This helped significantly. We took this a step further and put this reflective material on the inside of our windows. It is held in place by the curtains.
We have found that these steps have made the AC work for us. We have camped southern Arizona earlier this summer and were comfortable at 109 degrees. We also summer camp extensively in Florida and are always comfortable.
Some will tell you that putting reflective material between the windows and the curtains will cause problems. We have not found this to be the case, and we use our Airstream extensively (450 nights and 50,000 miles in 3 years). We also leave this material in place when the trailer is not in use.
We also leave our AC on when we are not in the trailer.
Brian
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I did this exact thing on ours and it helped a lot, We camped at Cabelas in I think it was Iowa, no shade, last week and it was 102. We turned the ac up to high and I had left the silver bubble foil insulation on all the windows put the awnings down, and we were very comfortable, and most importantly, our Bulldog was breathing just fine,Whew, she is our main concern.
I attached mine with small squares of velcro and for the 3 fantastic fans, put the velcro on all four corners stuck the insulation to them and they worked great. easy to put up and easy to take down. Our unit is also brand new carrier 13,500 low profile.
Annette
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07-31-2009, 12:53 PM
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#6
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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When camping in Santa Fe last month the temp was 91˚ and we left the A/C running all the time and the inside temp was in the mid 70's. In Pueblo, Colorado, the temp was 102˚ and the A/C cooled the inside to 81˚. Having panoramic windows front and rear doesn't help.
I've considered reflective material for the windows and roof penetrations, but haven't pursued it and am not sure where to get it. I've seen something that looks like aluminum foil covered sheets that are cut to fill the opening in trailer windows, but I'm not sure what it really is. I guess something could be laid on top of the retractable shade for the skylight, but I'm unclear how to fill the fan opening with something that is easy to attach and remove. In the southwest it can be very hot in the day and go down to the 50's or lower at night—then we use the fans and open the door to cool the trailer (not in Pueblo though; A/C all the time). It sounds like putting reflective material behind the curtains at front and back and behind the blinds on the side is what people do. Is there a simple way of attaching them to the window? I imagine something could rest on the curtain lower track and lean against the curtain, but I don't know how something could stay up behind the blinds. I've seen a dark plastic material that is stuck to the inside of windows in restaurants, but that would be permanent and I want to see out of clear windows. Photos available?
Gene
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07-31-2009, 12:55 PM
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#7
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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I missed the velcro idea for the roof and that's a good idea Annette.
Gene
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07-31-2009, 01:45 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
1972 25' Tradewind
old mystic
, Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I missed the velcro idea for the roof and that's a good idea Annette.
Gene
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Gene,
I used the velcro on all of the windows too. I used an foil backed insulation that has bubble in between the foil. It's probably about 1/2 thick. I got mine at the local True Value Hardware store it came by the foot for the wide stuff, 48 inches I believe then I bought some by the roll, 24 inches wide.
At night if we want to turn off the ac, and turn on the fan int he middle of the night , just reach up and pull the velcro off on one side of the one covering the Fan and let it hang down and turn on the fan, works great. I'll take some pictures. I leave ours on while traveling to keep the sun out and it is cooler when we stop.
Annette
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07-31-2009, 01:46 PM
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#9
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,159
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Hay Gene,
You can get the silver reflective insulation material at Lowes in 12", 24", and 48" rolls. It is similar to the stuff that they make the windshield sun reflectors from. I have been using the same pireces now for about 3 years now and it has held up well. The only piece that I have replaced is the one on the sky light.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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07-31-2009, 01:50 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Classic
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 393
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We camped for 5 days in early July with temps around 105 in the daytime and we were in partial shade. Still the temp would climb to 80 - 82 even with the 15M Dometic A/C. I am interested in the reflective material too. Where do you get it and what is it called?
Dennis
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07-31-2009, 01:51 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Classic
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 393
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Thanks Brian, I was asking the question as you were posting your answer.
Dennis
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07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Peoria
, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 228
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Wow, there's some dedicated campers here that will camp in areas with outside temps of 95-100! More power to you. I get cranky being outside when it's that hot -- either that or drive further north. I never did get used to our Phoenix summers.
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07-31-2009, 03:27 PM
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#13
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaken49
Attention all potential Safari 23-25 purchasers in the South and Southwest USA. The factory stock Dometic 13,500 BTU Air/Heat Pump cannot handle 90F plus days in the partial shade settings much less in full sun exposure. While the unit will pump out 50-55F chilled air the volume is not enough to give you anything more than a 15-20 degree temp differential. In other words on a 100F day in with the Safari in partial shade your indoor temp will be around 80F.
I recently camped at Palo Duro Canyon State Park near Amarillio, TX Palo Duro Canyon State Park the high hit 105F and with the air running full blast it was 92F inside. This is unacceptable especially after coming in from a 20 mile mountain bike ride.
The only fix is to upgrade to 15,000 BTU unit from Dometic products - Dometic that fits the same roof opening. Mine is on order now.
You can avoid the heat problem by ordering your Safari 25' or less with the 15,000 BTU unit. Airstream only installs that unit starting on the 27' line. Happy camping!
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Not a surprise. I found out in 2001 during my first outing in my new 27' Safari that 13.5K could not support reasonable inside temps when we were approaching the upper 90's in full sun. What was galling was the fact that the guy who bought my 30' SOB which had a 13.5 K Duo-Therm unit was camped right next to me in the full sun. He was nice and cool.
We ran all the tests and it came out that that 13.5 K Penguin just cannot support that size trailer in those conditions. Airstream was really evasive when you try to pin them down about the limits that the standard AC units support.
Bottom line I upgraded to the 15K Penguin when I had the Classic built. I've never regretted that upgrade. If you are going out in full sun or will be in very hot climes, consider an upgrade. Also use your awnings if you have them or consider adding some. I added a full length awning on the street side of the Safari. That made a lot of difference. Aluminum absorbs a lot of heat which was why my old white SOB was a lot cooler.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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07-31-2009, 05:28 PM
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#14
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2 Rivet Member
2007 27' Classic FB
Havelock
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 61
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I used the stuff from Lowes and cut it slightly larger than the inside windows and just push it into the edges and it stays well without any Velcro.
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07-31-2009, 05:45 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
2000 31' Excella
Currently Looking...
Maryville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 191
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Have you all considered closing one room off and just cool the room you are in during the day ?
I closed my bed room off, worked great.
Then of course late evening open it up and let is start cooling.
Robbie R.
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07-31-2009, 07:13 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
...
I also heard of one owner who used a mister hose on the roof. by cooling the roof, he kept the inside cooler.
...
Paula
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Boy, some things just never go away when you put them on the internet: http://www.airforums.com/photos/show...0&userid=17830
I used the foggers till I could get a new AC. See http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...ead-40795.html.
The 15,000 Btu unit is an improvement, but I still am aware of hot days in full sun. Of course, the Excella is 34 feet, too.
Interestingly enough, the darker blue of the two I used when painting the shroud faded to an almost aqua color and is now the lighter shade. The lighter blue has not faded. Both were Fusion for plastic.
__________________
Vaughan
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07-31-2009, 08:32 PM
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#17
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Thanks for the information Brian and Annette. I'll have to look for that stuff next time I'm at Lowes.
90+˚ are common in the west in the summer unless you get above 8,000' or more. And I heard it was 106˚ in Portland, Oregon, a couple of days ago. That's amazing. There's no escape.
Gene
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07-31-2009, 08:34 PM
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#18
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1 Rivet Member
2009 34' Classic
Coburn
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13
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The product name is "Reflectix Insulation." See Reflectix Inc. | Home. Reflectix is made with two layers of 96% reflective metalized aluminum separated by a 5/16˝ enclosed air space. It can be purchased at Lowe's in various widths for standard residential construction, such as 16˝ by 25´ rolls. Cut it to fit the dimensions of the portion of the vent to which it will be attached and either velcro it or simply cut it "oversize" and press-fit into the space.
Hope this helps.
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08-01-2009, 02:23 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Hi, my 25'er has the 11,000 BTU A/C and so far does the job. I have the small windows, mouse fur walls, and vinyl headliner. My A/C cranks out 40 degrees at the registers. If yours is 50 to 55 degreees, you may have a problem with it. Or maybe heat pumps don't go this low.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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08-18-2009, 07:27 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2010 28' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 146
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Well folks I bit the bullet today and upgraded my heat pump to a 15,000 BTU unit. I hope to try it out this weekend while the temps are holding near the 100 mark here in North Texas. Will keep you posted and let you know how it handles the heat!
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