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Jim Clark · 08-20-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inland RV Center, In

I have all the respect in the world for engineers. However that does not make them an expert in everything.

I worked for years with engineers and I must say that the only time I saw them really get mad is when they weren’t allowed to blow the whistle.

When I purchased my new tires I had the wheels balanced not the drums. I would of had the drums done also but it is a long way to Andy’s shop. The tire people asked why as you don’t ride in the trailer what difference doses it make. I have seen what vibration will do to all types of mechanical equipment. I have seen very large air handlers torn apart by vibration. I have seen what a worn strut bearing dose to a sailboat reduction gear and it how much it cost to repair. Andy takes it to a art which most of us can’t obtain but if I were near his shop he would do my balancing. I have read Andy’s advice for almost a year now and I can say he has been right on. This is one case which disproves the old axiom free advice is worth what you pay for it.

sovereign · 08-20-2002, 08:03 PM

if there was somebody with that type of balancing equipment where i live, i would have it done. but for now i will just have to rely on computer balancing.

sidowhite · 08-20-2002, 10:16 PM

Hi Guys,

I have one of those 70 sovereign, rear bath airstreams. After enjoying the spirited debate over vibation, I have just one question. It is the question John raised;

"what is this kit for amending the rear-bath weight problem? More info, please. "

83Excella · 08-21-2002, 08:12 AM

The frame kit is welded or bolted to the frame within the wheel wells. They are not welded behind the wheels as I previously stated.

Not to throw more fuel on the fire but it just doesnt make sense to me why AS does not require balancing of the hub if it is such a problem.

John

Pahaska · 08-21-2002, 08:54 AM

Airstream shipped me a shiney new trailer with a two-year warrenty and without either the tires or the hubs balanced. The owner's manual lists 6 categories of "Tips on tire Care". Nowhere there or anywhere else in the manual is balancing even the tires, let alone the hubs, mentioned.

Obviously, Airstream is really paranoid about balance problems. Not!

I'll go back to my prediction that this all started as a last-ditch attempt to trouble-shoot a problem that was not related to hub balance.

In the engineering world, finding a hub out of balance on a trailer with rear-end separation is entirely meaningless. One would first have to show that trailers that did not fail didn't have hubs just as bad. But who is going to look at all those other trailers? And who is going to design the test so that the black tanks are equally full and thry all hit that same speed bump or chuck hole just a little too fast?

uwe · 08-21-2002, 09:52 AM

Ok, I think this subject is getting long here, but the facts are that Andy has simply stated what it takes to avoid the problem, from his 30+ years experience with Airstream repairs and before that as a claims representative.
We need to make sure and separate Andy from the Airstream factory. Airstream might have screwed up a few things along the way, as we all know. Andy is trying to tell us how to avoid or even repair the problem.
Do all you guys out there have your engineering experience with Airstream?
Andy is talking from real life experience for over 30 years, not theory. If you guys could see his place, you would maybe understand a little better. He can point at things and show you what's up. ( Or down) I am not one to blindly believe what I'm being told, and some of the things coming from Airstream raise my eyebrows. ( Like 4 ea. 2600lb wheels for a 5000lb trailer) Some of the things Andy says do the same, but at this point I would rather believe him than someone with nothing but pure theory and NO experience. We all have one or two trailers, a motorhome etc. That's typically all we see. Andy has seen hundreds, maybe thousands of them, and got into every rivet, and not just once.
Another thing is, Andy goes to the safety extreme, because he has a business and all the associated liability issues. His posts reflect the very safest approach to trailering. He can not afford to give out the wrong advice.
(Hey Andy, you can send me that 100bucks now that you promised if i post this)

**Action** · 08-21-2002, 11:54 AM

Just to throw another twist in.

I would assume (not such a good word choice)Airstream engineering and Airstream marketing are at somewhat of opposite end of the spectrum. So when a unit is built and sold there is really one objective. Get the best unit in the hands of a consumer with a minimum of liability. And I would consider an Airstream to be near (if not at) the top of the line of travel trailers.

However, if there is a service concern after the sale, the only issue is to resolve it. So marketing takes a big back seat to the issue. As in, if you want it resolved, this is how to do it! Forget about the costs or the feasibility. And some customers will choose to repair some will not. Some customers will state that the concern is not an issue some will not. And with the type of use that some of these units get (ie sit for 11.5 months and get used for 2 weeks) it may not be an issue for them either.

So to state what is right and what is wrong, depends on one's perspective.

Usage from a parked trailer used as storage or a cabin to being pulled over the road full time can make big differences in what needs to be done.

And based on the input I have seen I am not sure Airstream has an official position other than they would like a happy customer.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

Jim Clark · 08-21-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by uwe
.
(Hey Andy, you can send me that 100bucks now that you promised if i post this)

You got a hundred !!!!

airstream4 · 08-22-2002, 09:17 AM

I bought a 31 ft. rb sovereign last year and towed it home after putting two new tires on. It towed beautifully. I replaced the other two tires this spring and replaced the shocks. I called around for places to balance the tires and drums in place and had little success. My neighbor owns a tire shop and I asked him if he knew anyone that still balanced the tires on the vehicle?
He had the equipment from his fathers garage and they only used it a few times a year!
I had the wheels and drums balanced and they said they were so bad they were surprised I didn't bounce off the road!!!
I never noticed the unbalance and the trailer towed beautifully!
I feel much safer knowing that the wheels are balanced!

If Andy had not been so strong in his opinion I probably would have said it tows smooth, so it must be OK.
Thanks Andy!!

Paul
31ft sovereign
Troy MI

sidowhite · 08-22-2002, 04:01 PM

This is a terriffic forum guys. I have learned more salient facts about my old airstream from copying the mail on you guys than from any other source. My old sovereign was a real stinker 3 years ago but is really taking shape. Without this source of information I have been tempted to give it up. With all its' periodic design flaws I still am a true fan of airstream. Now, for better or worse, I feel as though I know what to expect, what to monitor and how to react. Keep it coming. And all you guys "kiss and make up". I glean wisdom from you all.

Just left the RV Shop today and learned that my blackwater tanks do not leak as first I thought.

I still must repair the floor in the rear bath area. however we can at least take a few shake down trips. Now I shall also pay attention to vibration. It has to matter. Eventually I'll probably be forced to take on separation repair.

And lets not beat up on Andy, he is a wealth of information. He takes his time to answer my questions and I am 3,000 miles away and may never darken his shop with the shadow of my old sovereign. However, California is on my planned tour. Who knows?

Thanks,
Sid White

CJsTs · 08-22-2002, 10:10 PM

Gee fellas, I didn't mean to spark such heated debate with my question. I've read all the replies to this and visited Andy's Inland RV site and have to say, for myself, safety outweighs inconvenience.

I don't know Andy but consider his site to be one of valuable information...and you can't discount 30 plus years of real, hands-on experience.

My vote, if I have one, goes with taking the time and trouble of finding someone who can balance the whole assembly as detailed in Andy's website.

Yes, it's a real pain but if you ever had a wheel come apart on the road or even just tire failure, that's also a real pain, both literally and figuratively! Not to mention the expense and time lost.

Thanks for all the info though and the entertaining reading!

Great site and invaluable resource. Keep up the good work!

CJ

Fatt Ratt · 08-27-2002, 05:13 PM

Hey ya'll,

My Airstream owners manual on page 13 parg. #6 in bold face print clearly states, " Be sure to rebalance the hub, drum, wheel and tire assembly each time a tire is changed or rotated. "

Seems to be clear instuctions, even an engineer can understand. No slam on the engineers, just seems they are the people claiming Andy's advice is questionable at best.

I have received good solid information and quality parts from Andy at Inland RV. I also believe that if your in a business for 25 plus years you see all the problems that the factory doesn't.

Andy thanks for all the great posts and the timely delivered parts. - Ray.

CJsTs · 08-27-2002, 05:22 PM

Amen to Fatt Ratt and a big thanks! I'll stick with the factory recommendation. Now, does anybody know someone who can do this in the midwest? St. Louis, preferably but I'll travel.

**jcanavera** · 08-27-2002, 10:13 PM

CJ,
Check with Bill Thomas Camper Sales up in Wentzville. Andy said that Bill had the balancing equipment. Now whether he took it with him when he moved to his big new site, I'm not sure but you can check.

Regards,

Jack

CJsTs · 08-27-2002, 10:25 PM

Thanks Jack! My son lives in O'Fallon. I'll check it out next time I'm out there. Is this the same org as M.B. Thomas in Lemay (or related), do you know?
CJ

**jcanavera** · 08-27-2002, 10:45 PM

CJ,
You know I never did ask the question. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some tie. FYI, Bill Thomas will be hosting at his place, the first rally of the year next April for the local St. Louis WBCCI unit. Apparently he has a lot of hookups there. I'll keep you posted and you would be welcome to attend.

The Missouri State Rally is in Columbia next month and the local St. Louis unit will have their last rally of the year in Villa Ridge Mo. in October. Just a few miles west of Six Flags off I-44. Let me know if you are interested. I might be going to the Villa Ridge rally dependent upon weather and if I want to get out again. We are heading down to Branson the week before. And the Safari goes to its winter home at the end of October. I'll need to winterize and Walbernize prior to going into storage so time will be tight for me.

Regards,

Jack

mtbob · 09-10-2002, 07:51 PM

Have had tires and wheels balanced by computer on our 75 31' Sovereign several times over the years. Recently had each wheel tire and hub assembly spun balanced on the trailer. Took quite a lot of weights to rebalance. One hub and wheel was so far out, that almost ran out of weights. Its obvious that the hubs can be badly out of balance and that balancing only the tire and wheel assembly only gets part of the job done.

74Tradewind · 09-10-2002, 08:17 PM

I have recently replaced the drums and backing plates (with new shoes & magnets).

The drums I took off were almost egg shaped and had such an off-balance nature that they actually rocked like a pendulum until they stopped. One side of the drum was at least 1/8" thicker than the other side. What were they thinking???

The new drums are better but I can see that even they have an offset. The old drums coupled with an out of balance wheel could have wreaked havoc on the A/S.

Trust Andy at Inland, if you can get someone to balance the whole system, do it.

IMHO,
Brian

74Argosy24MH · 09-10-2002, 08:36 PM

If you have new drums and you can visually see a difference in the thickness they should not be used. That goes beyond balancing to poor machining or casting. All drums have a minimun safe thickness, you may already be less than that.

John

74Tradewind · 09-10-2002, 10:39 PM

The drums I bought were New. They came from a reputable vendor. I personally think that the manufacturing company(s) know that no one will be riding in the TT's and so the balance problem won't be disclosed by observation.

The out-of-round drums I took off were probably OEM. All four were out of balance.

All I am saying is from my own experience the drums are inherently out of balance/out of round. If this causes rear-end-droop, rivet shake, or some other problem I don't know but what Andy (Inland) says makes sense.

Take a moment and check yours out. Take the wheel off and see if the drum finds a heavy spot.

If it was economical for me to go there I would have the assembly balanced as suggested. Since I did not, I will have the problems suggested or maybe not.

I will make some calculations on what the harmonic cycle is at a nominal speed to estimate the frequency just for my own information.

IMHO
Brian