Traditional bearings vs. never lube type

[polarlyse]

Sometime down the road in the not too distant future I strongly suspect I will be needing to replace the axles in my 30' Classic trailer. I'm from the old school of bearings and have the old type that require an occasional removal to clean and re-pack. When the time comes for new axles I suspect that I MAY find the option to go for old or new never lube bearings. Most of us have these never lube bearings on our automobiles and trucks that we tow with. These have been around for some years and have proven to give relatively trouble free service for many miles of driving pleasure. Of course there are exceptions to this statement.

For those of us in the Airstream community have we found that the never lube bearings live up to this generalization ??? In other words given the choice would I be making a mistake going to never-lube type bearings with the purchase of new axles ????

[Al and Missy]

I have no experience with Dexter NevrLube bearings, but (I have read) the bearing cartridge costs about $160 and requires special tools and torque to replace. When I replaced my axles I went with EZ-Lube. They allow lubrication without disassembly and use the same bearings as the regular axles making it inexpensive to carry a set of spare parts. I have disc brakes so the need for periodic cleaning, disassembly and lubrication is reduced. The EZ-Lube bearings can be lubed without removing and disassembling the hub. They should be lubed with a hand-operated grease gun while rotating the wheel to avoid blowing out the grease seal, however.

Al

[polarlyse]

ThanX Al. While the old style bearings can be replaced along the road, and I carry the tools to do that. I know the never lube type cannot. They require a press to remove and install. I'm familiar with the process. Not sure I'm in tune with the bearing buddy though. I feel that there's too much temptation to put too much grease in. They're great for boat trailers but not sure I'd go with them for a travel trailer. I'm glad you're satisfied and hope you have a good experience with them.

See down the road sometime

[azflycaster]

I had ez-lube on my last trailer and that is the direction I would go. Never-lube require a zero offset wheel and are not recommended with centramatic's.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

ThanX Al. While the old style bearings can be replaced along the road, and I carry the tools to do that. I know the never lube type cannot. They require a press to remove and install. I'm familiar with the process. Not sure I'm in tune with the bearing buddy though. I feel that there's too much temptation to put too much grease in. They're great for boat trailers but not sure I'd go with them for a travel trailer. I'm glad you're satisfied and hope you have a good experience with them.

See down the road sometime

How can you put too much grease in? I thought you put grease in until clean grease came out. The bearings and cavities are always full of grease, right?

You can use too much pressure and blow the seals, but I was under the impression that a hand grease gun while rotating the wheel would eliminate that problem.

And I can always treat them like regular bearings, pulling the hub, cleaning and repacking.


Al

[GCinSC2]

If you are familiar with cartridge type wheel bearings and their R&R then the Dexter never lube will be familiar territory.

I installed cartridge wheel bearings on my VW Beetle and used a bearing screw press tool on my workbench and all went well and easy. Same deal just different sizes.

Dexter has good tech resources on their website.

As far as part numbers, they are at home but I do remember this Set 49.

http://www.showmetheparts.com/timkenmobile/

Enter Set49 without space as I typed into part search. It’s a pretty common car wheel bearing.

I think annual wheel bearing tilt / rock insp per Dexter should keep you out of doghouse.

YMMV

Gary

[crispyboy]

A couple years ago when I replaced the axles on my trailer I went "old school" and used the standard bearing setup. Why? To me it is reliable, simple, cheaper and can be fixed on the roadside if necessary. The only downside is that it is more work and cost of supplies......but I don't do it every year. I chunked the bearings made of chinesium and went with a quality Timken bearing and quality grease. I learned to grease wheel bearings as a 10 year old kid so lets just say I have a few years of this fun under my belt.

I do not use the grease fitting on the end of the spindle to lube the bearings. I don't like the idea of filling the hub with grease. It seems like it could potentially put too much pressure against the wheel seal and contaminate the brake shoes.


The never lube set up reminds me the unit bearings found on modern cars and trucks. While not fiddling with the maintenance is nice the unit bearings have a definite limited lifespan and often go bad sub <100k miles. I had to put new front unit bearings in our Honda Civic at 75k miles. I could tell they were going bad due to the vibrations. The unit bearings also went bad in our Jeep Grand Cherokee at 115k miles (very squeaky). With a unit bearing on a trailer how do you tell if the bearing is grease starved and going bad? You probably won't until it is too late and there is a potential to burn the spindle up.

[Life is a Highway]

To much grease or the over packing wheel bearings is often done. The more is better theory. The faster you go the less grease is necessary.

The proper method taught for years is acceptable, Grease packed in and around the tapered roller-bearing and then the proper end play adjustment. Do not fill the hub.

If it's a farm wagon or vehicle running very slow in deep mud and water then it is acceptable to over grease. The more grease in the hub the warmer the hub bearings gets.

[GCinSC2]

Some of the change from traditional tapered cup and cone to hub bearing assemblies in the automotive market I bet is due to fewer parts to install on the assembly line to build, and a application specific torque to the assembly that can be dialed in and reduces operator error.

I don’t think any of my vehicle fleet currently has traditional tapered cup and cone bearings.

And I’m not trying to make converts in either direction but I am trying to offer insight to the hub assy type bearings.

[helwigc]

With the never lube bearings you can travel with a complete hub assembly and do the replacement on the road. As mentioned before make sure the wheels you are using are zero offset.
When I replace my axles I will go with the never lubes.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

I have no experience with Dexter NevrLube bearings, but (I have read) the bearing cartridge costs about $160 and requires special tools and torque to replace. When I replaced my axles I went with EZ-Lube. They allow lubrication without disassembly and use the same bearings as the regular axles making it inexpensive to carry a set of spare parts. I have disc brakes so the need for periodic cleaning, disassembly and lubrication is reduced. The EZ-Lube bearings can be lubed without removing and disassembling the hub. They should be lubed with a hand-operated grease gun while rotating the wheel to avoid blowing out the grease seal, however.

Al

. I am replacing my brakes...5 years...40,000 miles...self adjusting..the never - lube bearings look good... you never grease them They are sealed like the front bearings of your tv. reusing the drums...smoothing up the magnet surface.. 13 31’ Classic...lots of passes...

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

I have no experience with Dexter NevrLube bearings, but (I have read) the bearing cartridge costs about $160 and requires special tools and torque to replace. When I replaced my axles I went with EZ-Lube. They allow lubrication without disassembly and use the same bearings as the regular axles making it inexpensive to carry a set of spare parts. I have disc brakes so the need for periodic cleaning, disassembly and lubrication is reduced. The EZ-Lube bearings can be lubed without removing and disassembling the hub. They should be lubed with a hand-operated grease gun while rotating the wheel to avoid blowing out the grease seal, however.

Al

Try elsewhere.....look around....I bought one to carry for $104.....timken made in USA....

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

I had ez-lube on my last trailer and that is the direction I would go. Never-lube require a zero offset wheel and are not recommended with centramatic's.

My 2016 AS has the Never-lube bearings and I have the centramatics. Why is is not recommended to run centramatics with Never-lube? Your comment has me somewhat concerned with my setup.

[GCinSC2]

Dexter never lube info including zero offset requirement.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...e.pdf?sfvrsn=8

[moosetags]

Our dear Lucy has the Nev-R-Lube bearings. She is a 2015 Flying Cloud 25FB. I keep an accurate towing mileage log for Lucy. She currently has 46,730 miles on her bearings and tires. We did put the 16" Michelin LT tires on her when she was new. She also has had Centramatic Balancers on her since new.

Lucy's running gear is still operating without any problems after four years and 47,000 miles. The Michelins still look like new.

I hate to admit this, but Lucy's hubs have never been inspected. We are planning a trip to Jackson Center next April. I guess that we will have them looked at then.

Brian

[ROBERT CROSS]

Our Classic still has it's 2007 Timken & Centramatic upgrade.
I prefer to 'never lube' myself, SFSG.

POI...the minimal thickness of the Centramatic won't damage anything.👍
0.19 inch = 4.826 millimeters
Bob
🇺🇸

[Action]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Some of the change from traditional tapered cup and cone to hub bearing assemblies in the automotive market I bet is due to fewer parts to install on the assembly line to build, and a application specific torque to the assembly that can be dialed in and reduces operator error.

I don’t think any of my vehicle fleet currently has traditional tapered cup and cone bearings.

And I’m not trying to make converts in either direction but I am trying to offer insight to the hub assy type bearings.

AND ................
Lower warranty costs
Longer service life
Lower maintence cost to consumer

Decades ago vehicle manufactures discovered the majoity of wheel bearing failures occured after the bearings were dissassembled in service. (for whatever reason) With the advances in grease, seperating the hub from the braking surface (disc) wheel bearings could be sealed for a very long time!

And so they were.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Silverpuller]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Dexter never lube info including zero offset requirement.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...e.pdf?sfvrsn=8

Thanks for including the Dexter link. Unfortunately the link tells me what Never-lube bearings can do, but not how they do it.

In my life’s work, I spent decades working as a mechanic and machinist. That experience included repacking many, many bearings, of all types. In every case the old grease was dirty with wear product. This “crud,” if allowed to build-up, can become quite abrasive to the bearing. If the old, dirty, lubricant isn’t periodically replaced with clean lubricant, the bearing will eventually fail. My experience is that all bearings, sleeve, ball, or roller, eventually produce an abrasive wear product. Lubricants like oil, water, grease, etc., not only cool the bearing, but also carry away the damaging wear products.

So in a Never-lube bearing, what happens to the inevitable wear product? What keeps the bearing cool?

I’m asking rhetorically, and suspect that only a Dexter mechanical engineer could answer.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Silverpuller

Thanks for including the Dexter link. Unfortunately the link tells me what Never-lube bearings can do, but not how they do it.

In my life’s work, I spent decades working as a mechanic and machinist. That experience included repacking many, many bearings, of all types. In every case the old grease was dirty with wear product. This “crud,” if allowed to build-up, can become quite abrasive to the bearing. If the old, dirty, lubricant isn’t periodically replaced with clean lubricant, the bearing will eventually fail. My experience is that all bearings, sleeve, ball, or roller, eventually produce an abrasive wear product. Lubricants like oil, water, grease, etc., not only cool the bearing, but also carry away the damaging wear products.

So in a Never-lube bearing, what happens to the inevitable wear product? What keeps the bearing cool?

I’m asking rhetorically, and suspect that only a Dexter mechanical engineer could answer.

You are worrying too much...all the newer vehicles have sealed bearings....most are good for over 125,000 miles...some of the first ones were on the olds tornado...1966..mine had over 250,000 miles..

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Silverpuller

Thanks for including the Dexter link. Unfortunately the link tells me what Never-lube bearings can do, but not how they do it.

So in a Never-lube bearing, what happens to the inevitable wear product? What keeps the bearing cool?

I’m asking rhetorically, and suspect that only a Dexter mechanical engineer could answer.

Well I guess we don’t have a Dexter or Timken mechanical engineer here to definitively answer your query.

Sealed hub bearings I bet have virtually replaced the old cup cone separate seal design for modern vehicles.

You stated significant experience, here’s a chance to add to it by taking the bearing being discussed and take one apart. Start by removing the seals. Then the cones. You’re left with two back to back cones and factory grease fill.

I think the biggest issue with them is tightening to the specified torque. The clearance has been lapped in and when fully tightened this tolerance is maintained between the cones. Dexter explains this.

I’m in the automotive aftermarket and had a chance to sit in on a wheel hub tech seminar by SKF IIRC. The big takeaway was proper torque AND the frequently very specific procedure to tighten correctly. Too loose and the clearance opens up and bearing fails.

I just consulted with an old friend that spent his career as a Corp field training instructor for one of the Big 3.

Q. When did cartridge sealed bearing start to displace traditional tapered bearings?
A. With the introduction of front wheel drive passenger cars.

So that’s about 40 years.

He also keeps active with professionally training automotive techs and the tapered wheel bearing R&R is not even taught anymore. Went the way of points and condensers.

I certainly cannot say which is better but I bet almost all of your TV’s and daily drivers use this type of sealed cartridge bearing or hub assembly, somewhere.

Gary